Reply to this topicStart new topic
> G Mixolydian Or D Dorian?
Mc Nico
post Jul 16 2014, 09:32 PM
Post #1


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 17
Joined: 10-July 14
From: Ávila, España
Member No.: 19.990



Hi everybody,

Im learning the line below (paying attention about notes over chords, dif neck positions, etc).

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/lick-of-t...2/G_Mixolydian/

I was playing this jazz line over the backing track and i think it sounds more dorian than mixolydian. I know, both has the same notes but its sounds different. Maybe i am wrong but the bass line (backing track) seems to be more a Dm7 than G7

So, if the chord is D-7...that jazz line is G mixo or D dorian? I am very confused!

Thank you!

(thanks Bodgan, again)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 16 2014, 11:16 PM
Post #2


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 29.966
Joined: 3-March 07
From: Argentina
Member No.: 1.289



Hi Nico! Welcome to GMC!

This is a very interesting question because sometimes is tricky to identify the mode that it's being used, and even more the there is not context as in the video. The lick is played using a mode but also using some chromatic notes as passing notes. If we compare G Mixolydian and D Dorian, we have the same notes.






I invite you to to do an experiment. Record an audio with you playing G7 chord all the time, and another one playing Dm7 chord. Play the notes of the lick over both chords and see what happens. how does it sound? If the lick sounds good over both chords, this means that the context (the backing) will define the mode that it's being used. But if you feel that the lick fits great over one of the chords but not very good over the other one, the answer is different.

Dm7


G7


There is an improvisation trick used that makes me confirm what I hear when I do this experiment but also makes me confirm what Stephane wrote in the description. When I play the lick, I don't feel that the note F# (major third) sounds good over Dm7 chord. I know that it's a passing note, but for my ear it doesn't feel good, try it and let me know. However this same note (F#) is the major 7th of G7 and that's the improvisation trick that I'm talking about. Every time your are playing scales that have a minor 7th, the major 7th will sound good as a passing note, it sounds cool, it makes the movement from minor 7th to root and from root to major 7th very nice to hear. Try it, and let me know what you think!



So, in other words, this is not an easy question, but I hope that my method helps you and give you ideas to improve your improvisation abilities as well as your theory knowledge. Keep me updated!

This post has been edited by Gabriel Leopardi: Jul 16 2014, 11:17 PM


--------------------
My lessons

Do you need a Guitar Plan?
Join Gab's Army

Check my band:Cirse
Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud

Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Jul 17 2014, 12:58 AM
Post #3


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.966
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



Either/or ...

Out of context with no chord behind it I hear it as a D (dorian) minor 7 line because it ends on a D note.

*It's very common for jazzers on all instruments to play dorian up a 5th from a dominant chord: G7 or G9 or G13 = D
dorian. That's known as 'minor conversion'. The jazz guitarist Pat Martino is a big proponent of this. In fact the line in that lesson is a very Pat Martino inspired line.

Check out this cut ...



Two chord song. Am7 and Bbm7. I think you'll hear a lot in common.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Jul 17 2014, 08:10 AM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mc Nico
post Jul 17 2014, 01:17 AM
Post #4


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 17
Joined: 10-July 14
From: Ávila, España
Member No.: 19.990



Thank you very much Gabriel!!!

I used to play, as chromatic notes, the major third when im in dorico mode. For intance, over Dm7, from F to G, sometimes i play the F# between those notes. I dont know..to be honest, I like the way it sound as the 7major do in the same situation over G7

The lick sounds really good in both situations -G7 & Dm7 but terrible in Cmaj7! The backing track i think is Dm7 but im not quite sure=bassline dry.gif ...that's why i felt confused about G7 mixolydian

I'll take your advice and keep trying! Thanks again Gabriel

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Jul 17 2014, 07:57 AM
Post #5


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



Hey mate! Gabi's explanations are excellent and as this is a tricky question, it is one whose answers are given by experimenting with the possibilities you have. Try Gabi's suggestions and see what the outcome is. In the end, if you want to make it sound even more interesting, you could always throw in some chromatic notes.

Since you like the Dorian mode and tricky stuff, I thought I might recommend a lesson I did a few years ago, which deals with understanding pivots - common notes in different scales and using them to smoothly cross from one scale to another:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Common-Notes/

Please let me know if you like it and if it also sparks some nice ideas smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stephane Lucarel...
post Jul 18 2014, 08:54 AM
Post #6


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 1.615
Joined: 18-February 09
From: France
Member No.: 6.803



The lick is build around the Dm / Dm7 arpeggio, FM7 arpeggio at the end (FM7 = Dm9...), so played alone the line clearly sounds as D dorian.
As you know that's the same notes as G mixolydian and as klasaine said notice " It's very common for jazzers on all instruments to play dorian up a 5th from a dominant chord: G7 or G9 or G13 = Ddorian "
To take a shortcut that's the same thing (IIm7 / V7), it's just a way to visualize things, improvise, finding new melodic ideas...
That's means that you could play your favourite Dorian lines over any 7th chord

You're also talking about the F# note.
That's that we call the bebop scale, a chromatic note is added to get 8 notes scale :
The bebop dominant scale over G7 : G A B C D E F F# G
Or the bebop Dorian scale over Dm7 : D E F F# G A B C D



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 18 2014, 01:32 PM
Post #7


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 29.966
Joined: 3-March 07
From: Argentina
Member No.: 1.289



Thanks Stephane for clarifying! That's why the lick sounded that good over G7 chord.


--------------------
My lessons

Do you need a Guitar Plan?
Join Gab's Army

Check my band:Cirse
Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud

Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Jul 19 2014, 08:06 AM
Post #8


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



Stephane was definitely the one with the necessary experience for such an input! Thank you Stephane!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Jul 19 2014, 05:26 PM
Post #9


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.966
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



You can also use the same thinking for chord voicings. Minor 7 up a fifth.
If there's a static 1 chord vamp on G7, try playing (smaller) Dm7, Dm9 and Dm11 shapes.

Play up and down the D dorian chord scale ...
Dm11 - X 5 5 5 6 X
Em11 - X 7 7 8 7 X
Fmaj9 - X 8 10 9 8 X
G11 - X 10 10 10 12 X

This post has been edited by klasaine: Jul 20 2014, 12:44 AM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 17th December 2017 - 07:24 AM