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> Bands Getting Older
Ben Higgins
post Jul 22 2014, 12:42 PM
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Speaking as a fan of metal music in general a lot of the bands I grew up listening to are now, how shall we say... advanced in years. The physical effects of this are that they cannot do all of the things they used to be able to do, in terms of performance.

The vocalists get hit the hardest as obviously their body is their instrument. Things they could sing when they were younger are almost impossible or at least, very hit and miss. It's not a negative criticism, it's just life. Some people hold onto their range longer than others but eventually, everyone will succumb to the limitations and have to accept them.

However, this is where some people differ. Some bands refuse to accept their limitations, which may seem the most admirable choice at first, but blind stubbornness can also see people out of their depth where everyone but the performer can see it.

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One thing that could come about as a result of getting older is that people start to experiment with their new capacity for performance. If people's voices get lower, then maybe start experimenting with different ways to express oneself in a lower timbre. I'm not just talking about the band tuning down to compensate for the old songs but I mean really digging into something different.

We open up the old 'should bands experiment' topic with this but I'm genuinely interested in people's different perspectives on this. By no means am I suggesting that bands shouldn't carry on into their older years... I'm saying that, as a fan, I'd love to see them trying out new things and working with their limitations to come up with something that works with them. I'd love to hear Halford doing some low down heavy stuff and using his lower range more.. we can't expect these guys to scream forever. Leaving vocalists alone for a minute, what about drummers and guitarists who can't keep up with their more physically demanding material ? Maybe these guys could explore slower, doomy, atmospheric aspects.

What do you guys think ? Should bands call it a day if they can no longer do their old stuff or should they just adjust and use what they've got to come up with something different ?


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Monica Gheorghev...
post Jul 22 2014, 01:15 PM
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What a coincidence, I read it today an article: "Metallica admits they might be getting too old to play metal" biggrin.gif

http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/...d-to-play-metal

From my point of view it would be much better if people will not try to play old stuff and to become at some point ridiculous because they can't do that anymore. It will be much better if they will simplify the things and brings the songs at a technical level able for they age.
It's not a good choice to fail in a constant way. You want people to talk about you in a good way and keep in mind the footprint that you brought in music history.
I guess it hurts very much to hear people saying: "Yes, it was a good guitarist when he was young but now it's crap" or "burn your guitar".
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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jul 22 2014, 02:14 PM
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I don't think age has to be an impediment. I think that most vocalists would benefit from proper vocal trainig when they are young so that they do not strain their vocal cords etc.

If you want to hear a classically trained vocalist (and composer and pianist) who has an amazing range try Diamanda Galas, she's 58 and still has a 5 1/2 octave range:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAFbYN_8e7g...t=RD1KwBEcWRBHY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jjCnKvA4IE...t=RD1KwBEcWRBHY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSc5-RkndnQ

None of those youtube do her justice - she's a wonderful performer and worth seeing live although some audiences have found her too much to handle. If you ever get the chance listen to her recordings like 'Litanies of Satan', 'Plague Mass', 'The Singer'.

She's also recorded an album with John Paul Jones (ex Led Zep), 'The Sporting Life', that people here may find easier to cope with.

So to quote Dylan Thomas:

Do not go gentle in to that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

This post has been edited by tonymiro: Jul 22 2014, 02:15 PM


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PosterBoy
post Jul 22 2014, 02:42 PM
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Glenn Hughes is still singing very well


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bleez
post Jul 22 2014, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jul 22 2014, 02:14 PM) *
So to quote Dylan Thomas:

Do not go gentle in to that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

that is an awesome piece of text. I like it cool.gif


what guitarists other than kirk hammet would fall into this area?


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Monica Gheorghev...
post Jul 22 2014, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 22 2014, 02:03 PM) *
what guitarists other than kirk hammet would fall into this area?

Hahaha.......when talking about fails, I guess Slash try to make all it's human possible to beat Kirk laugh.gif





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fkalich
post Jul 22 2014, 03:28 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jul 22 2014, 06:42 AM) *
The vocalists get hit the hardest as obviously their body is their instrument. Things they could sing when they were younger are almost impossible or at least, very hit and miss.



Robin Zander (Cheap Trick) at age 58 here singing "Way of the World" on Austin City Limits says, "not necessarily so".


http://youtu.be/uOYYv_sASx8
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bleez
post Jul 22 2014, 03:40 PM
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I actually thought slash was playing a bit faster than he used to. His latest album has some great guitar on it. He was quite shreddy in the 2011 Made in Stoke DVD


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klasaine
post Jul 22 2014, 04:03 PM
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If you learned 'correctly' (and there's more than one way of course) and trained/practiced consistently and properly (not hurting yourself) - whether you're a singer, guitar player or an athlete and barring traumatic physical injury - you should be able to continue well past your 'pop' prime. You're supposed to get better and mature. Robert Plant sounds as good now as he did with Zep ... WAY DIFFERENT (LZ was 30+ years ago) but still just as 'good'.

Jazz musicians and symphony players - who generally play as fast and technical as any metal or prog guy - maintain their technique well into their 60s and even 70s. Many even get faster and more precise. Metheny, Scofield, Henderson, McLaughlin are great examples of that.

Personally I think that musicians (artists) attitudes and taste change as much or more than their physical abilities. And not unexpectedly, most fans attitudes towards their rock and roll stars don't change at all.
*I love to watch an artist evolve but I'm in the minority.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Jul 22 2014, 04:25 PM


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Jason Nocera
post Jul 22 2014, 04:14 PM
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I'm a blues music fan and this topic has recently come up among other fans in regards to B.B. King. He had a bad show in St. Louis back in April where you can read about here:
http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/605...was-a-bad-night

The blues "purists" say that he is a legend and should be respected no matter what he does in concert. You should be honored just to be in his presence.Other feel they were cheated out of their money and did not get what they expected from a concert.

It is no secret that concert tickets are expensive - even more for these legends. These bands may not be able to sing their hits anymore, but the prices are not getting any cheaper - in fact, they are getting more expensive.

As a fan, you have to consider - are you going to see the legends to hear your favorite music or just to be in the presence of one of your idols?



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Ben Higgins
post Jul 23 2014, 08:54 AM
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Obviously we can all find examples of people who are an exception.. but let's be honest, they are in the minority.

I'm not really looking for examples of things to prove or disprove a hypothesis, I'm more interested in the notion of musicians embracing new sounds as they get older. For example, loads of people have been critical in recent years of people like Rob Halford or David Coverdale, in my opinion 2 of the greatest rock / metal singers of all time. The common theme is that they can't do it any more... but do 'what' exactly ? Can we expect Rob to do 'Painkiller' in his 60's or DC to do 'Still of the Night' ?

Maybe they can't quite do THAT stuff now, but they can still sing. Coverdale's got the best lower range male voice in rock, in my opinion. I'd be totally happy to hear him singing within that range all the time. That's the kind of thing I'm getting at. Certain elements of people's abilities may diminish with age but they still have a kind of 'certainty' range where they've still got the goods and rather than try to please people by trying to do the old stuff they should work within their strongest area.

It's quite hard to explain but I hope people get it. smile.gif

QUOTE (Jason Nocera @ Jul 22 2014, 04:14 PM) *
I'm a blues music fan and this topic has recently come up among other fans in regards to B.B. King. He had a bad show in St. Louis back in April where you can read about here:
http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/605...was-a-bad-night

The blues "purists" say that he is a legend and should be respected no matter what he does in concert. You should be honored just to be in his presence.Other feel they were cheated out of their money and did not get what they expected from a concert.

It is no secret that concert tickets are expensive - even more for these legends. These bands may not be able to sing their hits anymore, but the prices are not getting any cheaper - in fact, they are getting more expensive.

As a fan, you have to consider - are you going to see the legends to hear your favorite music or just to be in the presence of one of your idols?


Hmm that does sound like an unusual gig.. but wow, 88 !! That's a guy who definitely doesn't need to prove a thing.. but to a concert goer, a bad show is a bad show regardless of who it is.

QUOTE (klasaine @ Jul 22 2014, 04:03 PM) *
If you learned 'correctly' (and there's more than one way of course) and trained/practiced consistently and properly (not hurting yourself) - whether you're a singer, guitar player or an athlete and barring traumatic physical injury - you should be able to continue well past your 'pop' prime. You're supposed to get better and mature. Robert Plant sounds as good now as he did with Zep ... WAY DIFFERENT (LZ was 30+ years ago) but still just as 'good'.

Jazz musicians and symphony players - who generally play as fast and technical as any metal or prog guy - maintain their technique well into their 60s and even 70s. Many even get faster and more precise. Metheny, Scofield, Henderson, McLaughlin are great examples of that.

Personally I think that musicians (artists) attitudes and taste change as much or more than their physical abilities. And not unexpectedly, most fans attitudes towards their rock and roll stars don't change at all.
*I love to watch an artist evolve but I'm in the minority.


I do agree with this. It could be that a lot of performers in the heavier genres of music have worked with bad technique their whole lives and / or made things worse with their lifestyle.

By no means is diminished ability at older age confined only to the rock world but the lifestyle definitely does not endear itself to one of health, self discipline and looking after yourself. People do manage to do it though but it's something that has to be sought out by the individual, the life definitely doesn't default to it.

QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 22 2014, 03:40 PM) *
I actually thought slash was playing a bit faster than he used to. His latest album has some great guitar on it. He was quite shreddy in the 2011 Made in Stoke DVD


Quite possibly.. I do think guitarist can go through slumps but still practise and raise their game at any point in their lives. It doesn't factor in the possibility of any degenerative condition or other health issues of course but aside from that, we can still 'oil the machine' and get the bits working again, I think smile.gif

QUOTE (fkalich @ Jul 22 2014, 03:28 PM) *
Robin Zander (Cheap Trick) at age 58 here singing "Way of the World" on Austin City Limits says, "not necessarily so".


http://youtu.be/uOYYv_sASx8


Respect is due !

QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Jul 22 2014, 02:42 PM) *
Glenn Hughes is still singing very well


Yes.. and considering he definitely lived the R & R lifestyle until he cleaned up that's no small feat !

QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jul 22 2014, 02:14 PM) *
I don't think age has to be an impediment.


I agree with you, I don't think it has to be.


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 23 2014, 10:47 AM
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Great thread topic!!! As the saying goes, "One's reach, should exceed one's grasp". Meaning only that we should strive for the impossible as a way of simply serving our better Angels and our better selves.

Having said that, it's equally important to embrace "temperance" (I struggle with this one). In other words, one should strive for balance and even practice restraint, where appropriate.

Thus the dilemma arises. smile.gif

It is finding the right blend of these two ideas that presents us as musicians, and as humans, with some of our greatest challenges. When to push on and when to forebear.

One could even say that this is the crucible in which we burn. Always fighting to strive ahead while trying to maintain balance. We all deal with this differently of course. Older bands are a GREAT example since they are sooo public. The audience serves as a ballast in such cases. They often provide the counterforce when a band has gotten "too old" or reached "too far" by voting with their feet and not going to shows, not buying merch, etc.

For us though, we have each other to serve as a ballast smile.gif GMC is a wonderful community and the interplay of feedback and ideas between musicians is enough to keep anyone grounded IMHO smile.gif So thank goodness for GMC!

Todd

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jul 23 2014, 10:47 AM


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Sensible Jones
post Jul 23 2014, 08:01 PM
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I went to see AC/DC on the Black Ice Tour and, when we were walking out, we all realised that every man on that Stage is approaching 70 years old and they put on a better show than we could have at that point!!

As for changing musically? You only need to look at people like David Bowie who has constantly changed/evolved to suit the time.
From a personal level, if I go out to do Open Mic's then I have to drop the key of almost every single song I've ever learned to be able to perform it (unless it's a Chris Rea song!) Unfortunately I got blessed with a singing voice that sounds like I smoke 40 Cigarettes and drink 12 pints of Gravel every night!!!
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


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klasaine
post Jul 23 2014, 08:19 PM
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I was lucky enough to see the Rolling Stones in 1978 and 1981. I know that this is a potentially incendiary comment or point of view but ... 'they were still the Rolling Stones' then.
Seeing the modern Stones about 12 years ago or so, as 'good' as they played/sounded and as cool as the show was - I was bored.

Personally I don't want to see my 'rock stars' age and do the same thing they always did.

As big of a Police fan as I am/was - I didn't wanna go see the reunion.
Paul McCartney - same thing. Don't care anymore.
Not too mention how friggin' expensive these shows are!

Jones pointed out Bowie who has constantly evolved ... since his second record came out. Love him or hate him. He never sits still.
Reznor's another one. I don't dig most of what he does but I appreciate that he moves forward.
Alex Skolnick sort of plays jazz now. That's basically him saying, "hey, I'm not a kid anymore".
Ritchie Kotzen and his songwriter/blues gig - same thing.

These guys are probably more successful now than they ever were. With the longevity factor thrown in as a bonus.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Jul 24 2014, 03:44 PM


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Ben Higgins
post Jul 24 2014, 08:38 AM
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QUOTE (Sensible Jones @ Jul 23 2014, 08:01 PM) *
I went to see AC/DC on the Black Ice Tour and, when we were walking out, we all realised that every man on that Stage is approaching 70 years old and they put on a better show than we could have at that point!!

As for changing musically? You only need to look at people like David Bowie who has constantly changed/evolved to suit the time.
From a personal level, if I go out to do Open Mic's then I have to drop the key of almost every single song I've ever learned to be able to perform it (unless it's a Chris Rea song!) Unfortunately I got blessed with a singing voice that sounds like I smoke 40 Cigarettes and drink 12 pints of Gravel every night!!!
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


Yes, the DC have always managed to kick maximum amounts of ass.. they must just be doing something right. I think they love what they do, don't take it for granted and have a great chemistry. Brian Johnson's definitely gotta be the nicest guy in rock.

I agree about Bowie. He's always re-invented himself.. long before Madonna and Gaga did it. I admire Bowie and he can write a tune !



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bleez
post Jul 24 2014, 10:44 AM
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I noticed Slash just turned 49 the other day, I thought he was older tbh just because he's been 'around' since I really started getting into music.
I dont consider 49 all that old, I doubt he's in danger of impeding technique failure anytime in the near future smile.gif he's more likely at the top of his game just now.


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