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> Fender Blues Deluxe, Guitar Amp far too loud!
Im here to succe...
post Aug 4 2014, 05:11 PM
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Hi guys.

So I've had this amp for about 12 months now but i've only ever had it in my bedroom before last week...

I've never been able to use it past volume 2 so far because it was in my bedroom (fair enough)

However last week i done a rehearsal with my new band expecting to crank it right up, however anything past volume 2 was far too loud

anybody else had this issue?

So i use the clean channel with a few pedals running through, i've tried putting it on the gain channel which allows me to go to master volume 7/8 if i turn the gain knob right down but the gain channel is too dirty for the clean sound i'm after...

i've also tried turning the volume down on my guitar which allows me to turn the master volume to a good 6/7, however when the volume on my guitar is turned down, it caused havoc with my pedals then...

any ideas?

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PosterBoy
post Aug 6 2014, 07:01 AM
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I know when I had the Hot Rod Deville I had the same problem and it was because Fender put a volume control in where pretty much all the range was between 0 and 2 after that it didn't get that much louder. You may be able to get the volume pot changed out by someone competent for a better one, or I know there is a company that makes a volume box that connects to the preamp out socket and power amp in socket. I'll see if I can find it


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Mertay
post Aug 6 2014, 09:20 AM
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What you're looking for is a "speaker attenuator" though I have no experience in that area smile.gif its something thats connected between the amp and speaker so you can crack the amp but decrease the volume from speaker.

As far as I know what amp you use (or the speakers impedance) is important when choosing an attenuator. I suggest google'ing it first then go to a pro tech. in your area.


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klasaine
post Aug 6 2014, 03:54 PM
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Using an attenuator with that amp (any 'combo' amp) is problematic.
You need to run the attenuator between the amp chassis and the speaker. The speaker wire is very short in that amp and you 'may' need to re-wire that (make it longer).
Attenuators can also significantly alter the tone of the amp (depending on the amp, atten and the speaker).

These are some of the best available. They are not cheap - any decent one.
*Don't use a cheap one from a no-name off ebay - you'll start a fire (seriously).
http://www.thdelectronics.com/product_page_hotplate.html
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/minimass.htm

You also need to match the ohms rating of your amp.
Blues Deluxe is 8 ohms.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Aug 6 2014, 03:59 PM


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Im here to succe...
post Aug 6 2014, 04:55 PM
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Hmmm... thats abit frustrating that i'm now going to have to have work done on basically a brand new amp..
Is this a manufacturing error or what then?

i can't put it a millimeter past volume 2 otherwise its deafening... even in a big rehearsal room
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klasaine
post Aug 6 2014, 11:54 PM
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Kinda normal for Fender amps across the board actually - new and vintage.

1 to 3 is usually the actual volume attenuation and past three to 12 is really more of a gain boost.
Various models over the years have maybe been 1 to 5 and then gain boost.

A blues deluxe is not meant to be a quiet practice amp. It's made for performance. I use them all the time as backline for indoor gigs (no mic sometimes) as well as outdoors with a mic.
40 (modern) watts into a relatively efficient 12" speaker is loud and directed. A 4x12" or 4x10" cab would be quieter (more dispersion of sound).

This post has been edited by klasaine: Aug 6 2014, 11:55 PM


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pdf64
post Aug 20 2014, 12:29 AM
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Many Fender (and other) amps have a volume control with a linear B taper, rather than an audio A taper, see the master volume R26 of the Blues Deluxe RI http://support.fender.com/schematics/guita...matic_Rev-A.pdf
Such a control will probably be perceived by the user to ramp up very quickly, such that most of the available volume change occurs in the initial 1/3 of the rotation.
Even if an audio taper control is used, the gain staging of the amp may be such that the system runs out of headroom and overdrives quite early, eg at 25 or 33% of the available rotation.

If the issue that that the volume controls are too much of a hair trigger, then an additional volume control in the amp's fx loop will probably solve it.
eg a volume pedal, an eq pedal etc that has a level control, or http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ATTENUATOR-A1-FO...=item3a94c66901

QUOTE (klasaine @ Aug 6 2014, 11:54 PM) *
a relatively efficient 12" speaker is loud and directed. A 4x12" or 4x10" cab would be quieter (more dispersion of sound).


My understanding is that speaker arrays will inevitably have worse dispersion / be more 'beamy' / directional above ~ 1kHz than a single speaker.
The closer to a point source that radiates uniformly in every direction, the better.
Clearly a standard guitar type 12" speaker is pretty far from being such a point source, but 2 or more of them in a coherently coupled array will almost certainly be even worse.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directional_s...#Speaker_arrays
Hope that helps - Pete

This post has been edited by pdf64: Aug 20 2014, 12:53 AM


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klasaine
post Aug 20 2014, 02:56 AM
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In PA speakers maybe - not in guitar amps.
Open v. closed back, less efficient speakers (generally and on purpose) along with phase issues between 4 spkrs makes for a perceived volume drop in multiple spkr guitar cabinets. They also can emphasize mids and lows. *But it's also a great and very classic sound.

A Twin (as well as a Vibrolux) is 'beamy' with a lot of high-end by design (a lot of guys put V30s in them to reduce this).
2x12 combo amps/cabs seem to be the worst offenders. By comparison a 4x10 Bassman is not and this is what these amps are known for - more diffuse tone and volume.

A good Deluxe Reverb (vintage or modern) can potentially cut the heads off everybody in the front row. The modern Fender Deluxes (all variations) usually have ceramic mag speakers which are efficient and bright. The thinking is ... "great!, I can use a 1x12 combo amp on a real gig" (the more you turn a Deluxe up, the darker and better the tone gets - same for Twins and Vibroluxes). Whereas a 4x12 or 4x10 Marshall cab used with a head of similar wattage (40 watts) with 4 less efficient and lower wattage spkrs will be perceived as 'quieter'.

*I have a lot of guitar cabinets.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Aug 20 2014, 06:29 AM


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pdf64
post Aug 20 2014, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Aug 20 2014, 02:56 AM) *
In PA speakers maybe - not in guitar amps.


The acoustic physics surely makes no such distinction; the laws don't change according to the application.

QUOTE (klasaine @ Aug 20 2014, 02:56 AM) *
Open v. closed back, less efficient speakers (generally and on purpose) along with phase issues between 4 spkrs makes for a perceived volume drop in multiple spkr guitar cabinets.

The query was raised with Celestion's DrDecibel; tests were undertaken that appear to confirm that all else being equal, 2 coherently coupled guitar speakers are 3dB louder than one, in accordance with the theory cited previously.
See http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthrea...hlight=coupling

We can therefore reasonably expect that an array will also exhibit the increased directivity (over the single driver) that the theory indicates.

QUOTE (klasaine @ Aug 20 2014, 02:56 AM) *
A Twin (as well as a Vibrolux) is 'beamy' with a lot of high-end by design (a lot of guys put V30s in them to reduce this).
2x12 combo amps/cabs seem to be the worst offenders. By comparison a 4x10 Bassman is not and this is what these amps are known for - more diffuse tone and volume.


I suggest caution in comparing cabs that use different drivers (moreso those of different size) in different arrangements / configurations driven by different amps and attempting to draw any specific conclusions; it is not in accordance with the scientific principal to do so, as several variables are being changed.

QUOTE (klasaine @ Aug 20 2014, 02:56 AM) *
A good Deluxe Reverb (vintage or modern) can potentially cut the heads off everybody in the front row


Note that the whole front row is affected, not just those closely on-axis with the amp.
Might that indicate that a single driver is able the spread the high frequencies over a wide angle, ie not beamy?

QUOTE (klasaine @ Aug 20 2014, 02:56 AM) *
A blues deluxe is not meant to be a quiet practice amp. It's made for performance.

In defense of linear taper volume controls, they are able to offer finer resolution at high settings than audio types that ramp up more gradually, and so as mentioned, may be more suited to stage amps.
Pete





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klasaine
post Aug 20 2014, 11:09 PM
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It's just my experience.
I've always found, and I'm definitely not alone in this, that single speaker amps are generally perceived as being louder (and brighter) on stage as well as to the audience ... or to the soundman. I chalk it up to the single sound source. Room size and shape, wall/floor/stage/ceiling material and spkr placement will have as much of an affect on perceived volume and timbre as the EQ section of a PA or your amp. Manufacturer's specs and DB graphs are useless on a gig. All bets are off in the wild.

I own or have owned and work regularly with all the amps and cabs mentioned - including the amp in the OP (I've had several iterations of modern Fender 'Hot Rods' and 'Blues' amps). They're also standard issue back-line in the States because they're freakin' loud. *And, for better or for worse, the volume pots react pretty much the same on all of them regardless of year or model.

The player, the player's experience level, the player's other gear, the stage (monitors, mains and sound guy) and the rest of the band's experience level can all greatly influence the whole sonic environment ... for the band as well as for the audience.

YMMV.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Aug 21 2014, 02:51 AM


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