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Phil66
post Aug 10 2014, 09:08 PM
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When people go on about a guitarists "style" I know what they mean BUT, how is style developed? I mean we all have to follow the same "rules", using the same scales and notes so how does someone get a style? Eddie Van Halen always has that throw away sound and always sounds like he's having a party, SRV sound so so loose (in a good way).

Not that I'm anywhere near having a style but how does it happen? You can very often hear a piece that you've never heard before by a guitarist that you know and you know who it is? Is the tone more of a give away or is it actually what they are doing with their fingers?

I hope you understand my ramblings rolleyes.gif

Cheers

Phil


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klasaine
post Aug 11 2014, 02:10 AM
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That, in a sense, is the universal question.
100 people with different styles will tell you 100 different ways to get 'it'.
A very generic and general way of developing or evolving towards a style is to understand that this ...
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 10 2014, 01:08 PM) *
we all have to follow the same "rules", using the same scales and notes so how does someone get a style?

... is actually not what you do.

You do not have to follow the same rules. There may only be 12 notes (in several octaves) but how they're arranged is what gives one their 'style'. Scales are good to practice and good to know but they are not necessarily music. The way Steve Vai plays F G A B C is WAY different to the way John Coltrane, or Fela Kuti or Arvo Part play FGABC. How do they all make it different? I don't know. Only they know.

Listen, absorb, practice ... rinse ... repeat. Eventually 'you' will come out.

Or, in the immortal words of Clark Terry ... "Imitate, Assimilate, Innovate."

This post has been edited by klasaine: Aug 11 2014, 04:50 AM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Aug 11 2014, 04:19 PM
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Hi again mate, I casually shared a video on your other thread that talks about finding your voice. You should check it out:



Dave's thought can be applied to any instrument and to any aspect of our life. It's related to develop our personality and let our guitar express it. All those guys that you can recognize by their playing, tone and licks, have found their own voice that is totally related to their personalities. If you listen to them talking, you will surely find a relation between their music and their attitude, they look, they way of talking, the things that they say. Everything usually makes sense related to their playing. And sorry if I'm sharing too many videos, but this one is also reflects what I'm talking about:



There are many little things that you can do to make this possible. Most of these things are explained on Wooten's, Ghrol's and Vai's how to be successful video.

A good tip that I always say here is that the best way to use GMC lessons is not just learning the lesson. You have to understand what's happening related chord progressions, scales used and relation between phrases and chords to learn how the instructor composed it but then you have to loop the backing track and work on variations of each lick, combined with your own improvisations, experiment with them until you incorporate those ideas based on your taste and personality. That's how we slowly develop our style.

This same thing can be applied to composition. You can start analyzing your favorite songs and creating variations, adding your thing. Then, with time and practice your compositions will start to be more and more personal and one day you'll notice that your compositions are talking about you. You can learn about you listening to your creations. That's the goal!


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Ben Higgins
post Aug 11 2014, 08:21 PM
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One thing that goes on is that we all have our own filter when we try to process information and repeat it.

For example, EVH once said that all he was doing was trying to emulate Clapton licks but they ended up sounding totally different. Eddie's own personality filtered those Clapton licks along with his tone, fingers, pick attack and he made them into something that sounded like EVH.

It's only just part of the puzzle but we will all have our own filter to slightly skew something. I might 'metal' something up or put pre bends and staccato pick attack into a lick that someone else will play smoothly with no inflections.


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klasaine
post Aug 12 2014, 01:27 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Aug 11 2014, 12:21 PM) *
One thing that goes on is that we all have our own filter when we try to process information and repeat it.

For example, EVH once said that all he was doing was trying to emulate Clapton licks but they ended up sounding totally different. Eddie's own personality filtered those Clapton licks along with his tone, fingers, pick attack and he made them into something that sounded like EVH.

It's only just part of the puzzle but we will all have our own filter to slightly skew something. I might 'metal' something up or put pre bends and staccato pick attack into a lick that someone else will play smoothly with no inflections.


You have 1) believe in yourself (as corny as that sounds), 2) believe that other people want to hear what you have to say, and/or 3) not care what other people think about what you have to say.


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Mertay
post Aug 12 2014, 01:59 AM
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To me its more like a (chosen) limitation after expanding as much as possible. Like personal character, one simply don't fake it and the cooler he/she is the better his life gets.

Atleast that what I guess whats going on in legend guitar players heads biggrin.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 12 2014, 12:47 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Aug 12 2014, 12:27 AM) *
You have 1) believe in yourself (as corny as that sounds), 2) believe that other people want to hear what you have to say, and/or 3) not care what other people think about what you have to say.


Wow! Very well said wink.gif

Most of us don't have enough trust in who we are, in order to be able to walk out there and make a statement, in the form of art that we like.

Notice that the ones who made it, were brave enough to face the odds and work hard. In the PM I sent you, I aimed for the idea of personality - honing it, is the key to success.

A lot of folks think that the way towards success is to be able to play like x, y and z - but hey, those souls and personalities are already taken, aren't they? smile.gif Watch the vids Gabi has shared - they present the essence of things when we think of music!


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Spock
post Aug 12 2014, 03:38 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Aug 11 2014, 03:21 PM) *
For example, EVH once said that all he was doing was trying to emulate Clapton licks but they ended up sounding totally different. Eddie's own personality filtered those Clapton licks along with his tone, fingers, pick attack and he made them into something that sounded like EVH.

It's only just part of the puzzle but we will all have our own filter to slightly skew something. I might 'metal' something up or put pre bends and staccato pick attack into a lick that someone else will play smoothly with no inflections.


That is the essential key to style. You emulate what you like and what comes out of you is your style.

You may want to play just like EVH, but you enjoy a dash of jazz - BAM, new style. Or even just trying to copy the style of someone exactly; your fingers, feel, skill level and emotion are the personal ingredients which ultimately dictate your own personal style.

This post has been edited by Spock: Aug 12 2014, 03:39 PM
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Phil66
post Aug 12 2014, 04:03 PM
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All very interesting replies. Thank you so much.

Phil biggrin.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 13 2014, 07:54 AM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Aug 12 2014, 02:38 PM) *
That is the essential key to style. You emulate what you like and what comes out of you is your style.

You may want to play just like EVH, but you enjoy a dash of jazz - BAM, new style. Or even just trying to copy the style of someone exactly; your fingers, feel, skill level and emotion are the personal ingredients which ultimately dictate your own personal style.


Good call here - there's another nice saying: 'You are what you play' in this case - 'You play what you are' would suit the situation better. I for one, am listening to a lot of stuff really and I can't say that I am completely a metal guy. Truth is, I'm listening to less and less metal by the day, even if I am playing metal with my band. Weird huh? biggrin.gif

A style, is based around the things that inspire that specific person as well - Eric Johnson is a refined, complex but rather peaceful player, while Zakk Wylde is a very aggressive and more visceral player. I tried to put in two very different styles side by side so that the musical personalities of these two could be seen as well.


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Spock
post Aug 13 2014, 08:07 AM
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It's always interesting to hear what artist enjoy listening to as opposed to what they actually play.

Zakk, while with Ozzy and even with his new band - is a southern rocker by heart - he loves Lynard Skynard. I remember Paul Dean of Loverboy saying he listened to Kenny Rogers.

I love listening to Loreena McKennitt.

I was telling my friend at work yesterday that you played in a hard rock band and played with orchestras.
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 13 2014, 08:28 AM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Aug 13 2014, 07:07 AM) *
It's always interesting to hear what artist enjoy listening to as opposed to what they actually play.

Zakk, while with Ozzy and even with his new band - is a southern rocker by heart - he loves Lynard Skynard. I remember Paul Dean of Loverboy saying he listened to Kenny Rogers.

I love listening to Loreena McKennitt.

I was telling my friend at work yesterday that you played in a hard rock band and played with orchestras.


I enjoy listening to classical music and modern metal as well, then funk, acoustic, country, world music and pretty much everything that sounds good to my ears.

You know I came to the conclusion that music is of two kinds only - that one that transmits something and that which does not smile.gif


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Spock
post Aug 13 2014, 09:27 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 13 2014, 03:28 AM) *
I enjoy listening to classical music and modern metal as well, then funk, acoustic, country, world music and pretty much everything that sounds good to my ears.

You know I came to the conclusion that music is of two kinds only - that one that transmits something and that which does not smile.gif



Indeed - but I think all music transmits something to someone - even if it's just the creator of the music themselves. And as someone said here, which I agree with, if you like it, there is bound to be others that like it too.

The music my son listens to by default transmits nothing to me but as many notes as possible, played cleanly with a lot of GRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAWWWRRRRRR on the vocals - but to him, it's ALL that.

I've never been into twangy country either personally, some modern country I've enjoyed. But I love folky sounding music and bluegrass.

Conerning my son's type of music, one band that comes to mind is Protest the Hero - they are great musicians, and I think really cool guys, and they have some good songs - but I like grooves.

This is one of their better songs. Even my son calls it A.D.D. Rock - (Attention Deficit Disorder). However this is probably the most mainstream band of this genre he listens too.

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Mith
post Aug 13 2014, 09:51 AM
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I think as muscians we tend to appreciate diffrent types of music more since we can sit back and go "oh that was clever" and listen to the concepts in a song rather than the song itself


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 14 2014, 11:51 AM
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Well, us people who research and live music by practicing it sure do have a hard time sometimes, when it comes down to listening to a song, as a normal listener would.

We usually get carried away with details instead of seeing and hearing the bigger picture - tough one, eh?

I for one have the following drill - I try to feel and listen to things as I did when I was about 6-7 years of age and listening to classical music smile.gif It was an incredible feeling! All those magical sounds and guess what... I had NO clue about what was happening there musically - I just knew I like it smile.gif

How do you guys move into the skin of the listener, in order to have a more 'outside view' of the music?


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Spock
post Aug 14 2014, 12:22 PM
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Indeed - like that band above "Protest the Hero", I can appreciate that stuff, but I couldn't sit through an entire show of it. I would be bored through an entire show of Steve Vai too - like I was at Satriani, unless it was Vai playing with David Lee Roth again, or something like that. I'm not cutting down on the guys either - I understand why they are great and why people like them - just talking about what hits me in the soul personally.

I just like songs - not guitar wizardry, though I can definitely appreciate wizardry and skill - it can "WOW" me at a guitar clinic or someone in a music store or something like that, but as far as just listening for the value of the long intricate musical piece, I guess I would rather listen to talk radio. Unless the music tells me a story, or like some world or new age or even drone zone music, subliminally helps me achieve some level of peace and creativity.

There are ambient drone music stations on iTunes radio (free streaming) that I like to have playing at work. They're not really songs, just weird sounds, but man do they ever put me into a good head space for work.
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jstcrsn
post Aug 14 2014, 12:26 PM
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as easy as I can say . Nothing can come out that you haven't put in !

this is were the rubber meets the roads, memorize , memorize memorize !

If you stick with one guitarist , you will end up being a clone and that's not bad if that's what you want
But I would learn as many styles as what floats your boat, and it will take some time but eventually , without thinking about it, you will start latching on to things and discarding others as your style shows thru
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klasaine
post Aug 14 2014, 04:34 PM
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Almost as soon as I started playing guitar I played with other (learning) musicians. We sucked of course but I got to constantly try out everything I was working on - whether I really knew how to play it or not(?) - it didn't matter. Some of it worked, some of it didn't. Most of it got changed and adapted to fit whatever song we were trying to play.

To this day I still do that. I learn a lick or a chord voicing and I immediately (try to) apply it to something I'm doing in a band, on a gig, at a session or just for my own work at home. I usually have to adapt whatever it is slightly so that it becomes my way - my thing.

*I guess what I'm saying is, "apply what you learn" ... just don't apply it to the song/style/genre you learned it from.
Unless of course you're doing it for a cover band project.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Aug 14 2014, 04:40 PM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 16 2014, 07:01 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Aug 14 2014, 03:34 PM) *
Almost as soon as I started playing guitar I played with other (learning) musicians. We sucked of course but I got to constantly try out everything I was working on - whether I really knew how to play it or not(?) - it didn't matter. Some of it worked, some of it didn't. Most of it got changed and adapted to fit whatever song we were trying to play.

To this day I still do that. I learn a lick or a chord voicing and I immediately (try to) apply it to something I'm doing in a band, on a gig, at a session or just for my own work at home. I usually have to adapt whatever it is slightly so that it becomes my way - my thing.

*I guess what I'm saying is, "apply what you learn" ... just don't apply it to the song/style/genre you learned it from.
Unless of course you're doing it for a cover band project.


Great input here Ken!

Applying what we learn should be one of the top reasons for learning smile.gif People are more overwhelmed by the idea of learning, rather then the idea of learning with a purpose. I want to tap, sweep, alternate pick, riff, slap - EVERYTHING ... I was like that about learning, but at a certain point, it's exploring of course, so wanting to learn stuff simply because you enjoy 'tasting it' is ok, but you should think about using it as well.


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