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> The Fans Deserve Better!
VilleFIN
post Aug 11 2014, 07:08 PM
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Great video and hilarious guy !
P.S. Lots of F-words wink.gif

This post has been edited by WeePee: Aug 11 2014, 10:19 PM


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bleez
post Aug 11 2014, 08:31 PM
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he uses Red Fang as an example of a proper modern band?

agreed biggrin.gif


I always thought the vocal in Bohemian Rhapsody was processed in some way..... based on no information.


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 12 2014, 05:18 AM
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The vocal in Bohemian Rhapsody was processed smile.gif They added LOTS of Freddie Mercury smile.gif Somehow, without any vocal training to speak of, he could easily keep up with some of the best trained classical vocalists on Earth and did so repeatedly for several recorded collaborations, not to mention setting a very high bar for rock vocalists for decades to come by singing densely layered vocal harmonies and topping his own high notes during live work. Sort of the 70's rock versions of Geofe Tate smile.gif But with an arguably better natural gift.



QUOTE (bleez @ Aug 11 2014, 03:31 PM) *
he uses Red Fang as an example of a proper modern band?

agreed biggrin.gif


I always thought the vocal in Bohemian Rhapsody was processed in some way..... based on no information.



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Mith
post Aug 12 2014, 05:30 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 12 2014, 12:18 PM) *
The vocal in Bohemian Rhapsody was processed smile.gif They added LOTS of Freddie Mercury smile.gif Somehow, without any vocal training to speak of, he could easily keep up with some of the best trained classical vocalists on Earth and did so repeatedly for several recorded collaborations, not to mention setting a very high bar for rock vocalists for decades to come by singing densely layered vocal harmonies and topping his own high notes during live work. Sort of the 70's rock versions of Geofe Tate smile.gif But with an arguably better natural gift.


aparently he also did that song in one take while he was sick


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VilleFIN
post Aug 12 2014, 07:56 AM
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Like Todd said Freddie was really talented singer. I saw this one document making of that album. He could sing perfect harmonies on top of his own vocal tracks.


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Bogdan Radovic
post Aug 18 2014, 11:39 PM
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This video is spot on. I think that technology in recording/mixing/production has made some great things possible for modern musicians but the downside is really obvious : there is real danger of being more lazy in terms of "yeah, we'll fix that later". The vocals which can be fixed by auto-tune, guitarists can track million takes and even punch in single notes and drummers don't even need to play smile.gif In environment where studio time is very expensive, some musicians might even be forced to make these "compromises". Thing they wouldn't do if they didn't have the tools available.

What is worrying me is that auto-tune treated vocals are everywhere that our ears might be starting to get really accustomed to them and as time goes by, we'll just think of it as "modern sound" and maybe not even notice it at all.

BTW - which songs started the auto-tune trend?

This one made it popular as an effect I guess :



BTW - new technology can be really useful. My band once had a song recorded with one chord played on the wrong fret and we didn't notice it quite late in the mix/production. We used the pitch shifting to fix it and it worked well smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 19 2014, 05:11 AM
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Well said smile.gif It's a double edged sword. The tool box has gotten bigger and cheaper. The barrier to entry has NEVER been lower. So now, everybody and their brother has the ability to record at home and fix all the problems in software.

Despite all this, and even with every tool in the world at your fingertips, it remains a challenge to do one thing. Get ANYONE to care AT ALL about your music. There is SOOOOOOO much music coming out every day from everywhere, that getting anyone from anywhere to take the time to listen to your output is tough. so now, the really hard part becomes, how do you get people to care?

QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Aug 18 2014, 06:39 PM) *
This video is spot on. I think that technology in recording/mixing/production has made some great things possible for modern musicians but the downside is really obvious : there is real danger of being more lazy in terms of "yeah, we'll fix that later". The vocals which can be fixed by auto-tune, guitarists can track million takes and even punch in single notes and drummers don't even need to play smile.gif In environment where studio time is very expensive, some musicians might even be forced to make these "compromises". Thing they wouldn't do if they didn't have the tools available.

What is worrying me is that auto-tune treated vocals are everywhere that our ears might be starting to get really accustomed to them and as time goes by, we'll just think of it as "modern sound" and maybe not even notice it at all.

BTW - which songs started the auto-tune trend?

This one made it popular as an effect I guess :



BTW - new technology can be really useful. My band once had a song recorded with one chord played on the wrong fret and we didn't notice it quite late in the mix/production. We used the pitch shifting to fix it and it worked well smile.gif


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klasaine
post Aug 20 2014, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 18 2014, 09:11 PM) *
Despite all this, and even with every tool in the world at your fingertips, it remains a challenge to do one thing. Get ANYONE to care AT ALL about your music.


True dat.
Autotune doesn't write the song ... yet ohmy.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Aug 20 2014, 03:18 PM
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Today I was listening to this amazing song and paid special attention to the lyrics which are very connected to this topic:



Hear the sound of music
Drifting in the aisles
Elevator prozac
Stretching on for miles

The music of the future
Will not entertain
It's only meant to repress
And neutralise your brain

Soul gets squeezed out
Edges get blunt
Demographic
Gives what you want

One of the wonders of the world is going down
It's going down I know
It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares
No-one cares enough

Now the sound of music
Comes in silver pills
Engineered to suit you
Building cheaper thrills

The music of rebellion
Makes you wanna rage
But it's made by millionaires
Who are nearly twice your age

Soul gets squeezed out
Edges get blunt
Demographic
Gives what you want

One of the wonders of the world is going down
It's going down I know
It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares
No-one cares enough


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klasaine
post Aug 20 2014, 11:03 PM
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Except that 'Muzak' was actually all very real as far as how it was recorded. Mellow and relaxed - yes. Fake - no.
A lot of it completely live in the studio, real drums and no such thing as autotune or modeling. As unemotional as it may be it was done exactly like a real record (with decent budgets).

I recorded a lot of Muzak in the late 80s and early 90s.

*Porcupine Tree (Stevan Wilson) is awesome and that record is great!


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Spock
post Aug 20 2014, 11:44 PM
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I agree with the man 100%.

I love the rawer sound of a live band much more than the over-produced record.

However, thank god for easily attainable recording software an a means to do all these little tricks (in the bedroom) during the writing process - especially when presenting and idea or writing a song.

It's easy to get parts right after multiple takes and punch-ins, then you have your part. When the song is written the way you want, structured - then it's time to practice it and that's where the rawness comes in - because even after you've written/produced the song, the real song is what comes out of the real band members after practicing it together.

Drummer's speed up and slow down, the band follows, it creates an organic feel. Not every note is hit, some over emphasized, the tone is dirtier - and there are screw-ups, that is what I ultimately like to hear, because to me, even the screw-ups are awesome, if you can distinguish them from just playing a part differently.

Essentially, after I write a song, that is when I start practicing it - so it's like learning a cover tune, and always comes off with more feel and soul - because typically I'm screwing up 25-30 times a play through, regardless of how much I practice it, but at the end of the song, it's still the song - just rawer.

This post has been edited by Spock: Aug 20 2014, 11:47 PM
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Mertay
post Aug 21 2014, 01:31 AM
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I was blown away when I first heard this smile.gif


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Kristofer Dahl
post Aug 22 2014, 05:07 PM
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Cool video with some valid points!

Saying the *fans* deserve better feels like a bit of a contradiction though, if there were fans in the first place there must have been something they appreciated with the band (with or without autotune).

I am a big fan of modern recording tools, and my biggest sins are probably sucky drum samples (but who can hire a drummer for every recording?!) and punch-in recording. However in my defence, it has allowed be to be more productive.

Recently, I have tested working with less recording 'cheating' - and it does open up a new dimension - but it also makes things more time consuming.

In the end I guess it's a matter of personal preferences and priorities. And as we all now, the car itself can't get you anywhere - the [wo-]man behind the steering wheel needs to know the right pathway.


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PosterBoy
post Aug 22 2014, 05:23 PM
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The majority of music listeners are cheap and lazy and are getting what they deserve


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 22 2014, 06:32 PM
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Autotune is a tool and as with any tool shouldnot be blamed. It's how it is used or more precisely abused that is the issue.

and to add to what Ken said:

https://soundbetter.com/profiles/7137-the-c...recording-order


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 23 2014, 09:02 AM
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I have to agree with you smile.gif Fans get what they want to some degree in that they pay for stuff they want to see and hear. While it's true that they are "force fed" most of it from radio/mtv etc., they still "like" it enough to shell out money for it and thus we have the crap that passes for popular music. Those fans deserve what they get.

Perhaps he means "discerning fans deserve better" and I agree they do! smile.gif

As Kris mentioned I too am a fan of modern recording tools and I too use sucky drum samples. As was mentioned, who can afford a drummer? If I were recording something for release that I planned to pay to promote, I'd probably hire the amazing
KEVIN TALLEY for drums as he works remotely for about $150 per recorded minute. He's played with some serious bands and he's a serious drummer. Here is his web site.http://drummerkevintalley.com/

I once had a bass player named ADAM NITTI record bass for a track I was working on. IT ran me $300. He played an AMAZING part. It was so good, it outshined the guitars smile.gif These days you can hire nearly anyone you want and send them your mp3 and they will record the part and email it back to you or what not for a few hundred bux.

But for stuff that is going to be released for fun? EZ DRUMMER all the way!!!!!


QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Aug 22 2014, 12:07 PM) *
Cool video with some valid points!

Saying the *fans* deserve better feels like a bit of a contradiction though, if there were fans in the first place there must have been something they appreciated with the band (with or without autotune).
..
In the end I guess it's a matter of personal preferences and priorities. And as we all now, the car itself can't get you anywhere - the [wo-]man behind the steering wheel needs to know the right pathway.



HUGE props to tony for this link!!! Everyone go there and check it out. I joined right away. thanks!! Here is my link to my
NEW PROFILE!!!!

smile.gif" target="_blank">https://soundbetter.com/profiles/7233-metal...al-and-metal-smile.gif</a>

QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 22 2014, 01:32 PM) *
Autotune is a tool and as with any tool shouldnot be blamed. It's how it is used or more precisely abused that is the issue.

and to add to what Ken said:

https://soundbetter.com/profiles/7137-the-c...recording-order


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Aug 23 2014, 09:13 AM


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