2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Studying Other Players
Ben Higgins
post Aug 17 2014, 07:57 PM
Post #1


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 13.785
Joined: 11-March 10
From: England
Member No.: 9.820



I've had to do some transcribing recently and, although it was hard work, it was very rewarding.

I find that I go through periods where I'm really into a particular player so they will inspire me to learn some of their licks and figure out how I can work them into my own playing. I'll keep going back to that player and getting something out of their vibe for a week or two in a row. Maybe more. It just kind of hits me out of nowhere where I'm like "Damn, I'm really digging XYZ lately, I want to know what they're doing there.."

Does this happen to you or are you pulling all sorts of different licks from different influences all the time ?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mith
post Aug 18 2014, 06:25 AM
Post #2


Learning Apprentice Player
*

Group: Members
Posts: 428
Joined: 19-May 14
From: Australia
Member No.: 19.821



I get alot of that but more from diffrent genrues. One week I'm all like yeah heaps of heavy stuff. Other weeks I'm wanting to do more rock stuff and others more balled kind of stuff.

I waste way to much time thinking of what kinda of style I want to be writting in.


--------------------
I don't suffer from insanity, I love every minute of it
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ben Higgins
post Aug 18 2014, 07:40 AM
Post #3


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 13.785
Joined: 11-March 10
From: England
Member No.: 9.820



QUOTE (Mith @ Aug 18 2014, 06:25 AM) *
I get alot of that but more from diffrent genrues. One week I'm all like yeah heaps of heavy stuff. Other weeks I'm wanting to do more rock stuff and others more balled kind of stuff.

I waste way to much time thinking of what kinda of style I want to be writting in.


I think that can be just as productive, as long as you feel you're still pulling something useful from it. But you're saying you feel you can't decide what your style is.

That's interesting as you always hear people ask things like 'How can I develop my own style on the guitar ?' but I don't think I've encountered the issue of deciding what style you want to write in. Hmmmmmmmmmm, very interesting.

The most obvious and cliche answer is you would write whatever satisfies you the most. I don't think those 3 things you mentioned are mutually exclusive.. why not do them all ?



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 18 2014, 07:48 AM
Post #4


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



I frankly never took the time to transcribe but a few songs from guitar players, simply because I didn't want to get lost in their style too much. for me, things work in a different way - I listen to something A LOT and then I allow my subconsciousness to work and I come up with something in that style but with my own approach somehow - in that way, I get the influence but in a certain 'healthy' proportion. Does this make any sense? laugh.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mith
post Aug 18 2014, 09:22 AM
Post #5


Learning Apprentice Player
*

Group: Members
Posts: 428
Joined: 19-May 14
From: Australia
Member No.: 19.821



QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Aug 18 2014, 02:40 PM) *
I think that can be just as productive, as long as you feel you're still pulling something useful from it. But you're saying you feel you can't decide what your style is.

That's interesting as you always hear people ask things like 'How can I develop my own style on the guitar ?' but I don't think I've encountered the issue of deciding what style you want to write in. Hmmmmmmmmmm, very interesting.

The most obvious and cliche answer is you would write whatever satisfies you the most. I don't think those 3 things you mentioned are mutually exclusive.. why not do them all ?


I've never felt like I really struggled with having my own style since I don't spend that much time learning other peoples music I tend to learn scale patterns and chords then think of ways I can use them. Its more of having songs feel like they belong with each other.

I Guess I'm more looking at what I want my next project to be. Really looking at trying to get a huge dynamic going with softer/ cleaner verses and huge choruses. I feel this is the best way to cram as much into a song as I can so it satisfy me.

In saying all that I really do think I should spend more time learning more licks from other players


--------------------
I don't suffer from insanity, I love every minute of it
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ben Higgins
post Aug 18 2014, 09:44 AM
Post #6


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 13.785
Joined: 11-March 10
From: England
Member No.: 9.820



QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 18 2014, 07:48 AM) *
I frankly never took the time to transcribe but a few songs from guitar players, simply because I didn't want to get lost in their style too much. for me, things work in a different way - I listen to something A LOT and then I allow my subconsciousness to work and I come up with something in that style but with my own approach somehow - in that way, I get the influence but in a certain 'healthy' proportion. Does this make any sense? laugh.gif


Yes, that's mainly how I come up with all my 'style of' videos. I'll just watch several videos of that player and listen for any repeating phrasing and idiosyncrasies. I don't 'study' them as such.. I just listen.

But occasionally I'll just get really into a player's style. I went through a big Vai phase a while back.. now I'm re-listening to Jason Becker. It's great to go through periods where you kind of absorb different ideas from a player. I think you kind of need to have an intensive period of it to allow the ideas to settle in enough.

QUOTE (Mith @ Aug 18 2014, 09:22 AM) *
I Guess I'm more looking at what I want my next project to be. Really looking at trying to get a huge dynamic going with softer/ cleaner verses and huge choruses. I feel this is the best way to cram as much into a song as I can so it satisfy me.


Yeah that makes sense. I often have ideas of projects I'd like to do but then I think 'How many bands do I want to start ? That's a lot of FB and YT accounts to manage !!' biggrin.gif

So I can totally get why you want to identify what it is that floats your boat the most.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 19 2014, 07:39 AM
Post #7


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Aug 18 2014, 08:44 AM) *
Yes, that's mainly how I come up with all my 'style of' videos. I'll just watch several videos of that player and listen for any repeating phrasing and idiosyncrasies. I don't 'study' them as such.. I just listen.

But occasionally I'll just get really into a player's style. I went through a big Vai phase a while back.. now I'm re-listening to Jason Becker. It's great to go through periods where you kind of absorb different ideas from a player. I think you kind of need to have an intensive period of it to allow the ideas to settle in enough.


Very correct wink.gif I kinda ran away from the 'digging too much in the style of a player' simply because about 8-9 years ago, I had that Steve Vai period in which I wanted to be him - literally - clothing style, playing style, everything. And when I realized what I was getting myself into, I stopped completely smile.gif Now, I think I'm old enough not to do that anymore, so might be I'll give things a go with some of my favorites, because as you say - one needs to immerse himself into the phenomenon, in order to fully understand it and feel it properly.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ben Higgins
post Aug 19 2014, 09:25 AM
Post #8


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 13.785
Joined: 11-March 10
From: England
Member No.: 9.820



QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 19 2014, 07:39 AM) *
Very correct wink.gif I kinda ran away from the 'digging too much in the style of a player' simply because about 8-9 years ago, I had that Steve Vai period in which I wanted to be him - literally - clothing style, playing style, everything. And when I realized what I was getting myself into, I stopped completely smile.gif Now, I think I'm old enough not to do that anymore, so might be I'll give things a go with some of my favorites, because as you say - one needs to immerse himself into the phenomenon, in order to fully understand it and feel it properly.


That was definitely a legitimate concern you had because you recognised that you were starting to adopt too much of Steve's persona. The good thing is that you became aware of that. So many people never get past that. We can all spot the Yngwie clones in the blink of an eye, right ? They never made it past that imitation stage.

But yes, we've been playing long enough now to immerse ourselves in somebody else's playing without too much worry that we'll stop sounding like us. I don't think I could change my style around now even if I wanted to ! biggrin.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 20 2014, 07:22 AM
Post #9


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Aug 19 2014, 08:25 AM) *
That was definitely a legitimate concern you had because you recognised that you were starting to adopt too much of Steve's persona. The good thing is that you became aware of that. So many people never get past that. We can all spot the Yngwie clones in the blink of an eye, right ? They never made it past that imitation stage.

But yes, we've been playing long enough now to immerse ourselves in somebody else's playing without too much worry that we'll stop sounding like us. I don't think I could change my style around now even if I wanted to ! biggrin.gif


Indeed man - I mean, it's so easy to slip into the dark side of guitar playing biggrin.gif You know, I've heard a lot of 20 something players or even younger on Youtube, who can shred the hell out of the guitar, but there's no musical maturity whatsoever. Of course, the age says it all and the experience as well - I frankly think that the healthiest experience is amassed on stage and playing with other people, in situations in which you have to serve the music. After this, slowly, you become more disciplined and you can sort out the stuff that lies dormant within yourself, musically speaking of course.

At what moment in time did you become aware of the discipline needed in a multi people project?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ben Higgins
post Aug 20 2014, 09:08 AM
Post #10


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 13.785
Joined: 11-March 10
From: England
Member No.: 9.820



QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 20 2014, 07:22 AM) *
I frankly think that the healthiest experience is amassed on stage and playing with other people, in situations in which you have to serve the music. After this, slowly, you become more disciplined and you can sort out the stuff that lies dormant within yourself, musically speaking of course.

At what moment in time did you become aware of the discipline needed in a multi people project?


I think learning to listen and realising you're not the centre of attention all the time is one thing you learn (or should learn) when you start playing with other people.

The higher the calibre of musician that you play with, the better. It'll push you even more and cause you to listen more.

I think there's different disciplines involved when working with other people. There's listening, diplomacy, learning not to take musical opinions personally, patience, fairness..... all easier talked about than practised ! biggrin.gif Some of these qualities I had earlier and some of them I developed later but the more I learned about myself the more I could relate to others.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Caelumamittendum
post Aug 20 2014, 12:48 PM
Post #11


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4.383
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Member No.: 5.298



I kinda think to myself that I ought to listen to more music than I do. Sometimes I can go days without listening to music - or maybe I'll listen to 1-2 songs on a day. It's not enough! I used to listen to much more music and feel much more inspired. I think I ought to say to myself that, starting now, I'll listen to at least 2 albums each day.

EDIT: That was a bit off topic, but what I was trying to say was that I maybe unconsciously studied some back in the day by listening to a lot of music, which I don't do anymore.

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Aug 20 2014, 12:48 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ben Higgins
post Aug 20 2014, 02:21 PM
Post #12


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 13.785
Joined: 11-March 10
From: England
Member No.: 9.820



QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Aug 20 2014, 12:48 PM) *
I kinda think to myself that I ought to listen to more music than I do. Sometimes I can go days without listening to music - or maybe I'll listen to 1-2 songs on a day. It's not enough! I used to listen to much more music and feel much more inspired. I think I ought to say to myself that, starting now, I'll listen to at least 2 albums each day.

EDIT: That was a bit off topic, but what I was trying to say was that I maybe unconsciously studied some back in the day by listening to a lot of music, which I don't do anymore.


I think this is very applicable.. after all, we have to listen to other people's music or performances to be inspired by them.

I also don't spend as much time listening to music as I used to. When I occasionally think to look for some music whilst performing some boring task on the computer I can never decide what mood I'm in so I end up listening to nothing anyway rolleyes.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Caelumamittendum
post Aug 20 2014, 02:30 PM
Post #13


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4.383
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Member No.: 5.298



QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Aug 20 2014, 03:21 PM) *
I think this is very applicable.. after all, we have to listen to other people's music or performances to be inspired by them.

I also don't spend as much time listening to music as I used to. When I occasionally think to look for some music whilst performing some boring task on the computer I can never decide what mood I'm in so I end up listening to nothing anyway rolleyes.gif


I used to feel much more inspired to write and play guitar, and the more I think about it, the more I boil it down to the fact that I rarely listen to other people's music. I used to think: "If I don't listen to anything, I'll create something more original!" and that has kinda stuck with me, even though I now realize it's probably not the best of strategies if it also kills my creativity! laugh.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Aug 20 2014, 03:06 PM
Post #14


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.743
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



Other than Beethoven (and it was late in his career), most deaf people don't come up with new and original sounding music.
And I can't think of any blind person who's invented a new color.

Listen to music. Lots of it.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Caelumamittendum
post Aug 20 2014, 03:08 PM
Post #15


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4.383
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Member No.: 5.298



QUOTE (klasaine @ Aug 20 2014, 04:06 PM) *
Other than Beethoven (and it was late in his career), most deaf people don't come up with new and original sounding music.
And I can't think of any blind person who's invented a new color.

Listen to music. Lots of it.


I know, I know! I just remember thinking: "all I'm writing sounds too much like Dream Theater... I gotta stop listening to their music!", so I did...and then I wrote nothing!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 21 2014, 07:55 AM
Post #16


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



I walk a lot smile.gif Luckily, I can do that almost daily and that - spanning between 1-2 hours, is the time dedicated to listening to music on the street. I usually search for a band on Deezer and let the phone do the rest, since I have a very good data traffic deal with my mobile communications provider (4GB traffic/month).

Ben, indeed, I had the opportunity to work with a lot of musicians who were FAR more experienced than myself and I learned a lot every time. I usually apply the following strategy:

SHUTTUP. LISTEN. PAY ATTENTION. APPLY. smile.gif

It pays off EVERY TIME


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Caelumamittendum
post Aug 21 2014, 10:42 AM
Post #17


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4.383
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Member No.: 5.298



QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 21 2014, 08:55 AM) *
I walk a lot smile.gif Luckily, I can do that almost daily and that - spanning between 1-2 hours, is the time dedicated to listening to music on the street. I usually search for a band on Deezer and let the phone do the rest, since I have a very good data traffic deal with my mobile communications provider (4GB traffic/month).

Ben, indeed, I had the opportunity to work with a lot of musicians who were FAR more experienced than myself and I learned a lot every time. I usually apply the following strategy:

SHUTTUP. LISTEN. PAY ATTENTION. APPLY. smile.gif

It pays off EVERY TIME


If my knee wasn't being a right old **** these days I might have started walking more again - I might have also started playing football again, but hopefully soon (going to the hospital on the 29th of August to talk to them to see what's wrong).

Anyway, yeah, as I said, from now on I think I'll try and dedicate time each day to listen to at least 2 albums.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mith
post Aug 21 2014, 04:24 PM
Post #18


Learning Apprentice Player
*

Group: Members
Posts: 428
Joined: 19-May 14
From: Australia
Member No.: 19.821



I personally get really inspired when I hear a simple solo that just tells volumes.
its like man if that guy can do all that with just a handful of notes there really is no reason I cannot


--------------------
I don't suffer from insanity, I love every minute of it
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Aug 21 2014, 04:33 PM
Post #19


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.743
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Aug 20 2014, 07:08 AM) *
I know, I know! I just remember thinking: "all I'm writing sounds too much like Dream Theater... I gotta stop listening to their music!", so I did...and then I wrote nothing!


And you didn't/don't listen to 'anything' else - ?

When I feel that I may be channeling one particular player (or even one particular style) too much, I stop listening to that player or style for a awhile. But there's always something or someone else to take the place.
That's how you learn. That's how you get better.
It's by channeling a broad mixture of players and styles that one 'develops' a style and a sound.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Caelumamittendum
post Aug 21 2014, 04:43 PM
Post #20


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4.383
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Member No.: 5.298



QUOTE (klasaine @ Aug 21 2014, 05:33 PM) *
And you didn't/don't listen to 'anything' else - ?

When I feel that I may be channeling one particular player (or even one particular style) too much, I stop listening to that player or style for a awhile. But there's always something or someone else to take the place.
That's how you learn. That's how you get better.
It's by channeling a broad mixture of players and styles that one 'develops' a style and a sound.


Of course I listen and listened to a lot of other music. I just didn't feel at the time that it was helping me be more original. I kinda get a different vibe now, or don't bother too much about being original anymore. I just want to get going with writing music again. Original or not.

Back in the day though, like 10 years ago, I'd solely listen to progressive metal a la Dream Theater, Symphony X and similar acts. I guess the spectre is a bit broader these days. smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 25th March 2017 - 08:34 PM