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> Fx Loop For Amp Modelers
Barthandelus
post Aug 20 2014, 09:16 PM
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Hi friends,

Need some help here with the FX loop on my Blackstar HT Studio 20 and POD HD Pro X.

The POD has a couple of really nice amp models that i could make use of in some situations. Thing is, it sounds completely different than how it does when i heard it before i bought it, and when i record it.

If i am using the models on the POD (with no effects), should the models (POD) go in the FX loop to, i presume, to bypass the preamp?

Also, can someone please let me know the benefits of the 4 Cable Method, and how i might make use of it?

Thank you for your help, i appreciate it.

This post has been edited by Barthandelus: Aug 20 2014, 09:44 PM
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Todd Simpson
post Aug 20 2014, 09:43 PM
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Can you give us a bit more detail on what you are trying to achieve? Also, when you it sounds different now, are you using it differently? EG different setting/speakers etc. What changed?


QUOTE (Barthandelus @ Aug 20 2014, 04:16 PM) *
Hi friends,

Need some help here with the FX loop on my Blackstar HT Studio 20 and POD HD Pro X.

The POD has a couple of really nice amp models that i could make use of in some situations. Thing is, it sounds completely different than how it does when i heard it before i bought it, and when i record it.

If i am using the models on the POD (with no effects), should the models go in the FX loop to, i presume, to bypass the preamp?

Also, can someone please let me know the benefits of the 4 Cable Method, and how i might make use of it?

Thank you for your help, i appreciate it.


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Barthandelus
post Aug 20 2014, 09:59 PM
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At the moment, simply Guitar -> Pod -> Amp input

It sounds a bit like it muffled at the moment, as if im standing behind the amp; almost sounds limp and a little lifeless as if something is holding it back. Kinda like someone talking with their hand over their mouth if that makes sense.

Goes without saying that im willing to experiment, but im really worried about damaging my amp but doing something i shouldn't, as its my first tube amp. unsure.gif

I thought of this due to how different mine sounds to what i have heard of other people's with the exact same presets, so i though i could try putting the Pod in the loop of the amp. Or the 4 Cable thingy to see what difference (if any?) that would make a difference. Maybe the preamp in my amp is colouring the models too much... Who knows.

Before i bought the Pod, I used to have my MXR EQ in the guitar chain, and recently put it in the loop, and that made a big difference. But like i say, i dont want to damage my amp nor spend all day re-rigging it for no reason if my idea of putting it in the FX loop is pointless.

This post has been edited by Barthandelus: Aug 20 2014, 10:26 PM
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Todd Simpson
post Aug 27 2014, 08:29 AM
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You can bypass the "amp model" bits and just use the FX which is probably the best way to go IMHO since the amp models for HIGH GAIN all run a bit "Fizzy" IMHO. Here is a handy VIDEO to walk you through it smile.gif


P.S. That unit is fairly pricey even with the new ones having been released. Have you considered maybe selling it for something else? I"ve tried most every unit on the market and I can safely suggest the 11 Rack which can be had for $300 used. and the TC ELECTRONICS G MAJOR which is FX only, no modeling and can control your amp and runs about $250 used. You could probably get BOTH if you sold your line 6 unit.



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Barthandelus
post Aug 27 2014, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 27 2014, 07:29 AM) *
You can bypass the "amp model" bits and just use the FX which is probably the best way to go IMHO since the amp models for HIGH GAIN all run a bit "Fizzy" IMHO. Here is a handy VIDEO to walk you through it smile.gif


P.S. That unit is fairly pricey even with the new ones having been released. Have you considered maybe selling it for something else? I"ve tried most every unit on the market and I can safely suggest the 11 Rack which can be had for $300 used. and the TC ELECTRONICS G MAJOR which is FX only, no modeling and can control your amp and runs about $250 used. You could probably get BOTH if you sold your line 6 unit.


I got the POD at a really good discount from my local store a while back. I might sell it one day, but for now it seems to do the job.

From the 4CM, can i reasonably summerise that switching the FX Loop on the POD simply gives me a choice of bypassing or engaging the pre-amp on my Blackstar amp; the FX Loop on the POD takes up one and one only effects block. You cannot put, say, a Chorus in the middle of the loop block - the ability to do that would make sense to me, hence my confusion, unless all effects to the right of the FX loop go through the loop on the amp.

If i DO want to use my amp's preamp (which i do), then the 4CM is pointless...? Right...?

Thanks for your help, it is appreciated.

This post has been edited by Barthandelus: Aug 27 2014, 11:33 PM
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Todd Simpson
post Aug 28 2014, 05:11 PM
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I can't believe I'm the only guy answer thing thread as I'm one of the few guys that DOESN'T use a guitar amp/head at all smile.gif I use an 11 rack feeding a power amp so I don't run in to these issues. However, I guess perhaps fewer folks than I thought are doing what you are trying to do?

This answer from the line 6 web site may help smile.gif Also, here is the link to the FAQ that it came from.
http://line6.com/support/page/kb/_/pod/pod...ble-method-r488

--------
Q: What is the Four cable method? (POD X3 Live and Pro Only)
A: The “Four Cable” method (4CM) can be used for any effect unit that has an effects loop when connecting to an amplifier that has an effects loop (i.e. the POD X3 Live). This cabling method allows the end-user to place filters and overdrive units before the preamp section of the amplifier, and modulation and delay effects after the effect loop in the effect unit. This way the amplifier will provide the tones and the Line 6 device will provide the effects (pre and post). Be sure to enable the effects loop, and experiment with Pre-post effect to decide which method works best for you.

Instrument > X3Live guitar in
X3Live effect loop send > instrument input of amplifier
Amplifier effect loop send > X3Live effect loop return
X3 line output > Amplifier effect loop return.
--------

Did that clear things up? I've had experience with the pod and the FX were great smile.gif Bypassing the primary gain/amp models is a great idea as that is the weakest part of the unit imho. The Blackstar would do a much better job smile.gif


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Barthandelus
post Aug 29 2014, 07:09 PM
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Thanks for that, Todd.

Got everything set up now with your help and advice. Im getting sounds like never before!

Im using my amp's distortion, and have ditched the models on the POD - just using the effects before and after the loop. The models dont come close as it stands.

Spending some time doing a little tone-hunting now.

Thanks again mate!!! smile.gif
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Todd Simpson
post Aug 30 2014, 06:30 PM
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Happy to help smile.gif The BLACKSTAR has a NICE preamp/distortion section so it's gonna be way better as you've noticed on gain/amp stuff smile.gif But the POD has some great reverbs/delays/chorus/flanger, it's like a rack full of gear in a hand held device. As a bonus you can get a very nice foot pedal to control all of it including wah.

I always wondered why they didn't release a fx only version of the pod, could have used the space taken by amp stuff for more delays and such smile.gif


QUOTE (Barthandelus @ Aug 29 2014, 02:09 PM) *
Thanks for that, Todd.

Got everything set up now with your help and advice. Im getting sounds like never before!

Im using my amp's distortion, and have ditched the models on the POD - just using the effects before and after the loop. The models dont come close as it stands.

Spending some time doing a little tone-hunting now.

Thanks again mate!!! smile.gif


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Aug 30 2014, 06:31 PM


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Spock
post Sep 4 2014, 08:42 AM
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I went through the same head scratching as you and finally got it figured out. I think I started 2 threads on the subject and there is another more detailed. https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=51483


Anyway, If I'm understanding you want to be able to utilize your head and bypass the preamp in the Pro HDX, and with the click of the pedal utilize the preamp in the ProHDX.

Yes - this can be done. Once the 4 cable method has been set up, you just create you patch with the amp model of your choice. Here's where it gets kind of tricky though - it's really a 5 cable method, because you need to have a midi-output on the back of your Black Star going to the POD as well. The midi will make the POD control what channel on your amp is selected.

So when you press a certain pedal, it will switch the Black Star to clean channel (which you will have set as 100% clean as possible) and your POD distortion will kick in at the same time, switch to another pedal and you can have a clean FX only through your clean channel, or change channels on the amp with FX only while bypassing the POD preamp.

The only thing the POD won't change are individual channel settings on the amp, like gain, reverb setting, lows, mids, highs, etc. But, it can turn reverb on/off, and switch from Volume 1 to Volume 2, FX Loop On/Off, if those are buttons (not just dials) that can be assigned midi.

Well, I just looked up the Blackstar HT Studio 20 and unfortunately it does not seem to have a midi output, in which case you are stuck with having to hit 2 pedals (the channel pedal for the Blackstar and the patch pedal for the Pod).

I have a POD HDX Pro as well, and love what it does - once hooked up correctly it's so easy to control your tones, and you can even dictate what goes in front of the amp and what goes through the FX loop.

If eventually you want to be able to utilize just the POD as your only pedal board, you'll need to make sure to purchase an amp that has a midi input in the back - again, making it really a 5 cable method.

Good luck!

This post has been edited by Spock: Sep 4 2014, 08:46 AM
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Todd Simpson
post Sep 5 2014, 10:54 PM
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After a few posts he was able to get the four cable method going a bit back but I gotta say your post on it is much more eloquent and detailed than mine was!! I've not used a pod in this manner so I was mostly researching online and sharing what I found. The good news is, he got what he was wanting out of his pod!!

QUOTE (Spock @ Sep 4 2014, 03:42 AM) *
I went through the same head scratching as you and finally got it figured out. I think I started 2 threads on the subject and there is another more detailed. https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=51483


Anyway, If I'm understanding you want to be able to utilize your head and bypass the preamp in the Pro HDX, and with the click of the pedal utilize the preamp in the ProHDX.

Yes - this can be done. Once the 4 cable method has been set up, you just create you patch with the amp model of your choice. Here's where it gets kind of tricky though - it's really a 5 cable method, because you need to have a midi-output on the back of your Black Star going to the POD as well. The midi will make the POD control what channel on your amp is selected.

So when you press a certain pedal, it will switch the Black Star to clean channel (which you will have set as 100% clean as possible) and your POD distortion will kick in at the same time, switch to another pedal and you can have a clean FX only through your clean channel, or change channels on the amp with FX only while bypassing the POD preamp.

The only thing the POD won't change are individual channel settings on the amp, like gain, reverb setting, lows, mids, highs, etc. But, it can turn reverb on/off, and switch from Volume 1 to Volume 2, FX Loop On/Off, if those are buttons (not just dials) that can be assigned midi.

Well, I just looked up the Blackstar HT Studio 20 and unfortunately it does not seem to have a midi output, in which case you are stuck with having to hit 2 pedals (the channel pedal for the Blackstar and the patch pedal for the Pod).

I have a POD HDX Pro as well, and love what it does - once hooked up correctly it's so easy to control your tones, and you can even dictate what goes in front of the amp and what goes through the FX loop.

If eventually you want to be able to utilize just the POD as your only pedal board, you'll need to make sure to purchase an amp that has a midi input in the back - again, making it really a 5 cable method.

Good luck!



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