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> Fitting In With The Loop
Phil66
post Aug 31 2014, 12:48 PM
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Hello all,

Numpty alert biggrin.gif

OK I'm doing this lesson https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Beginn...-C-Major-Scale/ and I've pretty much cracked it with the odd fluffed note. I'm trying to play with the backing track that is looped but I just can't get it. On my second time around the rhythm is ahead of me, obviously I'm waiting too long to restart but I'm struggling to find the beat after that final C unsure.gif blink.gif I've even sat with the TAB, pointing at the notes along with the backing track and I just can't get it mad.gif

Any tips?

I think it would be a nice idea for the teachers to have the video looped for at least two rounds wink.gif

Cheers

Phil



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PosterBoy
post Aug 31 2014, 02:02 PM
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Download it and create your own loop


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Phil66
post Aug 31 2014, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Aug 31 2014, 02:02 PM) *
Download it and create your own loop


I'm playing along with the loop it's me struggling to play along with the loop not struggling to get a loop.



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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 1 2014, 01:16 AM
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Hi Phil. If I understand well, your problem appears when you play the lesson over the Jamtrack and the round starts again. I wonder if this problem also happens to you with other lessons or if this is just an issue with this lesson. I notice that every time the backing starts again on this one, there is something related to drums and chord strumming that makes it difficult. The guitar strum accentuation is different comparing the intro with the drum section so it's tricky to go from the last part of the backing to the intro again. You have to make an internal beat count if you want to keep on playing tight.

A good idea to work on this at first is to create a looped backing track that includes a hihat that maks the beats. I prepared it for you so please try to play over this new version and if you can do it, the next step would be to do the beat count in your mind. wink.gif

Attached File  backing_metronome.mp3 ( 3.8MB ) Number of downloads: 37


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Phil66
post Sep 1 2014, 08:30 AM
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Thanks for that Gabriel, I will try when I get home. I have just been thinking about a way to tackle it. I was thinking maybe if I played the last three notes of the melody in the same note lengths as all the others until I can repeat over and over and then try to fit in the last phrase as Bear does it.
I hope you understand and if you do, what do you think about this?

Cheers

Phil


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 1 2014, 12:02 PM
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Hey Phill smile.gif Have you tried to play alongside Bear's recording, so far? It's very important to be able to make a recording with his and then analyze the following things:

- since it's a recording based on fewer notes, count the time signature behind the piece as you would play it against a metronome (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4....)
- where does each note begin?
- have you memorized the melody? - Usually, once you have a piece in your memory, it will be MUCH easier to reproduce it - think of it as your favorite chorus from a melody - you can always remember the words and melodic lines, right?

If the last part is the one that's creating trouble - isolate that specific part and apply the above mentioned analysis. Once you understand where each note begins and for how long it lasts, it will be far easier to reproduce it.

Please let me know how this approach works for you and we'll take it from there wink.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 1 2014, 04:02 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Sep 1 2014, 04:30 AM) *
Thanks for that Gabriel, I will try when I get home. I have just been thinking about a way to tackle it. I was thinking maybe if I played the last three notes of the melody in the same note lengths as all the others until I can repeat over and over and then try to fit in the last phrase as Bear does it.
I hope you understand and if you do, what do you think about this?

Cheers

Phil



yes, this can also work. You can create a loop just with the last 4 measures of the backing and first ones, in order to work as a loop where you are having the problem. Something like this:

Attached File  backing_variation_2.mp3 ( 2.95MB ) Number of downloads: 32



If you have a daw like Reaper or Cubase, you could create lots of variations of this backing that will help you to master the lesson.

And off course, Cosmin's suggestions are very important. Practicing over the original lesson is very effective to improve timing. Maybe you can ask Bear for the main video track and create a loop with his guitar sounding...


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 2 2014, 10:41 AM
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Hey Phil smile.gif Please let us know if the suggestions were helpful and if you managed to apply them on Bear's lesson smile.gif


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Phil66
post Sep 2 2014, 11:09 AM
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Thanks for Cosmin and Gabriel,

I will try later when I get home, have to work late tonight so time will be limited. Last night I had a nightmare with my recording if you check on my Beginners book in Cosmin's thread.

I've kind of got the timing (when I'm not recording for you) but I think the loop throws me because the timing of the last three notes is different, this is why I suggested playing the last three notes with the same timing as the sets of three in the rest of the piece then maybe I will come in on time for the second, third and fourth loops. Once I have that down maybe I can then play the last three notes as Bear does.

Cheers

One step at a time.

Phil



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Phil66
post Sep 2 2014, 08:38 PM
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Hello both,

Ok been at it for an hour with both metronomes. I still couldn't get it mad.gif

I think that the change of note length throws me out BUT, I've also noticed, by sitting and counting 1,2,3,4 that the last D in the piece, if I am correct, actually lands on the 4th beat of the last but one bar. Please remember I am effectively a complete novice, even though I've had guitars for years I've just noodled along on my own with no backing tracks just a ton of Troy Stetina exercise books unsure.gif but playing no music. I'm also having to learn how to use Guitar Tracks 4, Cakewalk V-Studio 20, Windows Movie Maker etc. It's quite a lot to take in with the time I have as I'm trying to learn how to do three different skills all at once. ohmy.gif

Anyway I've made a double loop with count in and fade out,this is the very first time I've done anything like this so please check it for me.

My plan is to have the metronome clicking away in Guitar Tracks 4 and also watch the bar counter for a visual cue, I know this isn't a pure musical way of doing it but I need to crack this even though you don't ask for it to be done in REC Zone, maybe this way the penny will drop. rolleyes.gif

[attachment=38678:Double_l...fade_out.wav]

Please just check I've combined it correctly, I think I have but my head is spinning blink.gif

Thanks for you help and patience gentlemen smile.gif

Cheers

Phil


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Phil66
post Sep 2 2014, 09:05 PM
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Must be something wrong with my loop I think as I can't see how to fit the notes in. It's 17 bars long after the count in and that is repeated without the count in.

Please advise

Thanks

Phil



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Phil66
post Sep 2 2014, 09:40 PM
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Been thinking rolleyes.gif should those last three notes (D, C, C) be played when looping? Only asking as they cross over into the 17th bar. If I'm correct, the normal is 4, 8, 16 etc bars.

Should those last three notes only be played to end the piece after you have played as many loops as required?

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say

Cheers

Phil


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 3 2014, 07:45 AM
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Hey mate smile.gif

I have listened and the loop you created seems correct, but I think that a better approach would be the following:

- the last note Bear plays is played on beat one from a bar that is not there (the backing stops there)
- I would not tie the loop directly from that point, as it only confuses you
- I would create a loop that has the beginning beats played beginning with that beat one I mentioned in the first bullet
- In that way you can let that note finish and start again after that one bar meant to mark the ending of the piece
- If you want to use the loop like this, you must not play the last note over beat one, but the first note in the lesson wink.gif

Let me know if this makes sense and of course, if you want us to get a good grasp on what you are dealing with, please do share a recording of your playing over the loop. Do we have a deal, Sir?


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Phil66
post Sep 3 2014, 08:45 AM
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Thanks Cosmin,

I think I understand, I'll try to make a recording tonight when I get back from a meal with my wife (time and ale allowing wink.gif )

Thanks Cosmin

Phil

This post has been edited by Phil66: Sep 3 2014, 08:46 AM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 3 2014, 01:53 PM
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Ok Phil! I'll wait for the new recording. Let me know if you need help with the backing.


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Phil66
post Sep 3 2014, 09:32 PM
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Ok, here is my recording. I know it's no where near perfect for precision on the notes, I am trying to finger the string very lightly now as I was pressing far too hard and making the notes go sharp so sometimes I mute them.
I got in from the pub rolleyes.gif sorted out the backing and put this track down on the third take. It's a bit late for me so I had to put this up as it is, without trying to make more takes. I will try again tomorrow but I hope you can tell me if I am on the right track. I also know I need to greatly improve my vibrato but for now I wanted to get the track down in basic form, it is pretty lifeless but hopefully that will come with time smile.gif

[attachment=38697:Double_l...h_melody.wav]

Thanks for your help gentlemen.

Phil


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 4 2014, 07:16 AM
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Hey Phil!

Much, much better with the fretting! You got the backing right, as well and I think that it's just a matter of practicing this lesson with the right touch which you are getting better at and also working on your vibrato smile.gif I think this video from Ben will help out tremendously and this lesson from him can also help you with applying the technique in exercises meant to develop it for lessons such as this one you are practicing now wink.gif Let us know what your thoughts are, mate!



https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Bens-Vibrato-Odyssey-5/

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Sep 3 2014, 08:32 PM) *
Ok, here is my recording. I know it's no where near perfect for precision on the notes, I am trying to finger the string very lightly now as I was pressing far too hard and making the notes go sharp so sometimes I mute them.
I got in from the pub rolleyes.gif sorted out the backing and put this track down on the third take. It's a bit late for me so I had to put this up as it is, without trying to make more takes. I will try again tomorrow but I hope you can tell me if I am on the right track. I also know I need to greatly improve my vibrato but for now I wanted to get the track down in basic form, it is pretty lifeless but hopefully that will come with time smile.gif

[attachment=38697:Double_l...h_melody.wav]

Thanks for your help gentlemen.

Phil



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Phil66
post Sep 4 2014, 08:08 PM
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biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

I'm chuffed to bits now I've sorted that out, maybe the loop on the lesson page should be altered as it may confuse others who are just starting out?

I'll give the vibrato some going over now, all being well, video will be posted on Sunday.

Thank you gentlemen wink.gif

Phil


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Jim S.
post Sep 5 2014, 12:57 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Sep 4 2014, 03:08 PM) *
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

I'm chuffed to bits now I've sorted that out, maybe the loop on the lesson page should be altered as it may confuse others who are just starting out?

I'll give the vibrato some going over now, all being well, video will be posted on Sunday.

Thank you gentlemen wink.gif

Phil


Hey Phil, I just tapped along and listened to the backing. From my interpretation the backing stays right on beat the whole way through. I do believe that when the drums go away the rhythm left standing plays an off beat feel. This is where our mind has to control the timing and have faith it's going to land back on beat 1. Which it does. It is weird I felt it, the silent break that is just silent enough to throw your focus.

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Jim S.
post Sep 5 2014, 03:26 AM
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QUOTE (Jim S. @ Sep 4 2014, 07:57 PM) *
Hey Phil, I just tapped along and listened to the backing. From my interpretation the backing stays right on beat the whole way through. I do believe that when the drums go away the rhythm left standing plays an off beat feel. This is where our mind has to control the timing and have faith it's going to land back on beat 1. Which it does. It is weird I felt it, the silent break that is just silent enough to throw your focus.

Sorry I may be confused. I did not realize you had guitar on that track. I assumed lead over top. Either way keep on jamming man!
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