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> Economical Way To Mic A Cab Up
Phil66
post Sep 10 2014, 09:36 PM
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Hello all,

I have a Blackstar HT-1RH head running into a Blackstar 4x8 cab. I know I can go direct from the emulated output but I'd like to mic the cab. What's the most economical way to do this and get good sound reproduction? ie, what's the cheapest mic/stand that gives good results?

Cheers

Phil

This post has been edited by Phil66: Sep 10 2014, 09:38 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 10 2014, 11:05 PM
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There are cheaper ones, but this one is not expensive and it's the best mic you can get for electric guitars:

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All best tutorials are based on it:





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Todd Simpson
post Sep 11 2014, 02:14 AM
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BINGO!!! Well said gab smile.gif Grab a SM57, stick it in the cone, BAM!!!


QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Sep 10 2014, 06:05 PM) *
There are cheaper ones, but this one is not expensive and it's the best mic you can get for electric guitars:

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All best tutorials are based on it:






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Taka Perry
post Sep 11 2014, 04:15 AM
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Also it's never a bad idea to record the dry guitar into the DAW as well, so you can go back and re-amp it or even blend it with the mic'ed track smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 11 2014, 08:08 AM
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Great suggestions from the guys - now, it all depends on what sort of a budget you have. The best experience I had so far, was with the Shure SM7b - for both vocal and guitar recording and this Sunday, I will try a Senheiser e609 which I currently procured from a friend.

http://www.shure.com/americas/products/mic...ocal-microphone - 350 bucks

http://en-us.sennheiser.com/e-609-silver - this one is 139 bucks

They are not the cheapest ones, but I thought it would be good to share stuff I have experienced smile.gif

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Phil66
post Sep 11 2014, 07:40 PM
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Thanks everyone,

good help there, I don't want to spend more than £100 so it looks like going for the Shure, I will ask friends who play and are in bands if they have a used one, it's only for recording my lessons at the moment.

Those YouTube videos sound awful in this thread, they are extreeeemly distorted but in YouTube site they are fine. Any ideas?

Cheers all

Phil

This post has been edited by Phil66: Sep 11 2014, 07:42 PM


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SpaseMoonkey
post Sep 11 2014, 09:36 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Sep 11 2014, 02:40 PM) *
Thanks everyone,

good help there, I don't want to spend more than £100 so it looks like going for the Shure, I will ask friends who play and are in bands if they have a used one, it's only for recording my lessons at the moment.

Those YouTube videos sound awful in this thread, they are extreeeemly distorted but in YouTube site they are fine. Any ideas?

Cheers all

Phil


I would also toss a Sennheiser e609 into this as well. As you wouldn't need a mic stand. You can just hang the mic from the top of the cabinet. Can't get distance as it will sit on the cloth, but it will save you the money from buying a stand.

Also remember that all those videos are recording it to show placement, so it's all raw sound. No bass, no eq, just straight raw recordings.



This does the placements but towards the end he will add in some bass/drums and then the full on EQ to show the change from Raw to Finished.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 11 2014, 10:29 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Sep 11 2014, 03:40 PM) *
Thanks everyone,

good help there, I don't want to spend more than £100 so it looks like going for the Shure, I will ask friends who play and are in bands if they have a used one, it's only for recording my lessons at the moment.

Those YouTube videos sound awful in this thread, they are extreeeemly distorted but in YouTube site they are fine. Any ideas?

Cheers all

Phil



If you are planning to use it for recording lesson I also recommend you to consider the possibility of recording by line using some sofware amp emulators. There are really good ones, and some are completely free. Check out this thread: HERE


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 12 2014, 05:12 AM
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I listened to the vids and they seem ok to me in the thread and outside gmc. Might be some settings on your rig? Maybe flash playback settings?

Yeah the SHURE SM57 is just a great choice for your first mic smile.gif You'll always be able to get good sound from it and they are solid as a rock.


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Sep 11 2014, 02:40 PM) *
Thanks everyone,

good help there, I don't want to spend more than £100 so it looks like going for the Shure, I will ask friends who play and are in bands if they have a used one, it's only for recording my lessons at the moment.

Those YouTube videos sound awful in this thread, they are extreeeemly distorted but in YouTube site they are fine. Any ideas?

Cheers all

Phil



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Darius Wave
post Sep 12 2014, 07:30 AM
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SM57 + a lot of time for experiments should do the job. It really is considered as a cheap mic...cheap but descent. Of course be prapared for a disappointment. Usually when we buy some new stuff we put a lot of hope into it. When we launch for the first time...we might fail to get the sound we want. Give it some time and some compensation in a matter of "what we hear VS what mic hear". Don't be afraid of using unconventional mic positions if they really give You what You want smile.gif

Keep in mind that microphones work same as EQ - at least most of guitar dynamic microphones (condenser and ribbon can have almost flat freq response). SM57 has a huge (around 5 dB) wide boost around 5kHz so moving it a bit aside form the coil, makes the record sound closer to what You actually hear from the amp itself. Oh....and very often "default" Eq on the amp really does the job for recordings....You might not like how it sound on the amp but mic does wink.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 12 2014, 07:56 AM
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Darius smile.gif since you started the discussion, I will record this Sunday, using a Sennheiser e609 Silver and I understood that the best option is to place it on a stand in front of the cab, oriented in such a way, that the edge of the cone will traverse the mid section of the mic.

Something like this - see Fig 1, having only Mic no 2:



What are your thoughts on this, mate?


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Phil66
post Sep 12 2014, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Sep 12 2014, 05:12 AM) *
I listened to the vids and they seem ok to me in the thread and outside gmc. Might be some settings on your rig? Maybe flash playback settings?

Yeah the SHURE SM57 is just a great choice for your first mic smile.gif You'll always be able to get good sound from it and they are solid as a rock.


The videos play fine tonight, must have been some codecs messed up, the sound was very distorted in a static kind of way not a nice way wink.gif

Cheers

Phil


QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Sep 11 2014, 10:29 PM) *
If you are planning to use it for recording lesson I also recommend you to consider the possibility of recording by line using some sofware amp emulators. There are really good ones, and some are completely free. Check out this thread: HERE


Thanks Gab,
I'm just downloading Reaper for trial, then I will buy if it works with my system and use your thread for the plug in stuff.

Thanks everyone, this is a great family kinda like having a guitar club down at the local pub biggrin.gif

Phil



This post has been edited by Phil66: Sep 12 2014, 09:05 PM


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SirJamsalot
post Sep 12 2014, 09:01 PM
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sm57 is the workhorse mic used by most pros. cheap, reliable, good for high volumes.

On a side note, I've found that unless you are trying to get a feedback effect from your guitar recorded, you should place your cab in separate room for recording so you can crank it (saturate those tubes if it's a tube head) for the best tone, and still be able to hear the mix you're recording to - without going deaf! smile.gif

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Phil66
post Sep 12 2014, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Sep 12 2014, 09:01 PM) *
sm57 is the workhorse mic used by most pros. cheap, reliable, good for high volumes.

On a side note, I've found that unless you are trying to get a feedback effect from your guitar recorded, you should place your cab in separate room for recording so you can crank it (saturate those tubes if it's a tube head) for the best tone, and still be able to hear the mix you're recording to - without going deaf! smile.gif

Chris!


Cheers,

I won't go deaf, it's a 1 watt Blackstar HT-1 RH head biggrin.gif



This post has been edited by Phil66: Sep 12 2014, 09:19 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 13 2014, 02:09 AM
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The 1 watt is a good idea for home recording smile.gif Also, for recording late at nite or for recording without the amp, you can always just run straight in to your soundcard/interface and use something free like AMPLITUDE FREE or GUITAR RIG FREE as a guitar simulation plugin. It allows for wads more flexibility since you can change the guitar tone after you've recorded.

The bad thing about recording using only an amp is that you are stuck with the tone. I will often use record one track direct so I can use guitar plugins on it and one track with a microphone and cab. You can then mix them together for a bigger sound smile.gif However, I've been finding lately that I can get a much more realistic guitar sound by eliminating the actual amp and just using the plugins. But I've had to work at it for a while.

Todd


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Sep 12 2014, 04:19 PM) *
Cheers,

I won't go deaf, it's a 1 watt Blackstar HT-1 RH head biggrin.gif


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post Sep 13 2014, 09:29 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Sep 10 2014, 09:14 PM) *
BINGO!!! Well said gab smile.gif Grab a SM57, stick it in the cone, BAM!!!



I found these videos very insightful! I've never just moved a mic around the cone before (placed at different angles). I believe I liked that slightly rotated angled position just to the outside edge of the cone tone the best.
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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 13 2014, 11:05 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Sep 12 2014, 06:30 AM) *
... SM57 has a huge (around 5 dB) wide boost around 5kHz ...


Very true Darius and that's one reason why SM57s are often modded in pro recording studios and also why they are rarely used by themselves to record amplified guitars.

More generally - a lot of mics though have quite a pronounced character and are anything but flat - the issue is often how you deal with that. Many inexperienced engineers just don't spend enough time getting the mic position sorted and resort to eq far too soon. It's the usual 'fix it in the mix' mentality and it doesn't really work. Spend time getting things right from the start rather than try and bandage up the mistakes later.


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Phil66
post Sep 13 2014, 04:17 PM
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Thanks everyone,
OK I've decided to go the software route for now. I have Guitar tracks 4 which is OK but not brilliant, what I do like about it is that when I press record on my control surface, the software starts recording, also there is an interface that mimics the control surface, ie it is a copy of the V-Studio 20 on the screen. I can't see how to get this in reaper, is there anything that will do similar rather than having to keep using the mouse?
Cheers
Phil


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Phil66
post Sep 13 2014, 08:06 PM
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Ok, I've tried Sonar X3 and it is bloody complicated, for me anyway.

I think I'll use my ME80 into my Blackstar and Blackstar emulated output into the V-Studio 20 for now, it's wasting too much precious practice time trying out different recording software so I'll stick with Guitar Tracks 4 until I have improved a bit.

Any tips, or ideas for anything recording wise great appreciated, especially if I can use my VS20 as a control surface which I can't seem to do with Sonar X3 for some reason, which is odd because it's a Cakewalk product.

Cheers

Phil


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 13 2014, 11:10 PM
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Phil -

For the majority of DAWs you can usually set a control surface in the DAW's 'Preferences' or 'Set Up'. Sorry i can't be more specific but I don't use either Sonar or Reaper.


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