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> The 'fusing The Genres' Collaboration, Time to get Electronic!
DeGroot
post Sep 29 2014, 01:07 PM
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Thanks for the comments! Yes, it was an experiment for sure. I recorded a part and just tried a few things over it. The whole solo was put together and recorded in around 2 hours. It sounds a bit odd listening back to it but I kind of like it. It will be interesting hear how it fits into the collab. smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 29 2014, 04:09 PM
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QUOTE (DeGroot @ Sep 28 2014, 03:31 PM) *
I was inspired by Taka's track and what everyone has come up with so far. I came up with something this morning, it a bit on the metal side. Hope you enjoy! P.S. this is my first recording with my new Ibanez RG biggrin.gif

https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/fusing-genres


It doesn't matter what side it is on wink.gif It sounds great to my ears and I think it fits the track excellently! Congratulations!


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Jim S.
post Oct 1 2014, 03:31 AM
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Ok so after another round of writing here is my semi final product. Some of the parts that I have written cant be played yet and I am not sure Ill even come close to the deadline. Some of the tapping and lead lines I want to play very uniqe slowed down but are too tricky. I am glad that I was able to write it though.

Heres the track with the modified licks to fit the time.
https://soundcloud.com/jim-seekford-music/fusing-4
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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 1 2014, 09:55 AM
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QUOTE (Jim S. @ Oct 1 2014, 02:31 AM) *
Ok so after another round of writing here is my semi final product. Some of the parts that I have written cant be played yet and I am not sure Ill even come close to the deadline. Some of the tapping and lead lines I want to play very uniqe slowed down but are too tricky. I am glad that I was able to write it though.

Heres the track with the modified licks to fit the time.
https://soundcloud.com/jim-seekford-music/fusing-4


Wow! Mate, that's ANOTHER animal! It only needs a bit of polishing here and there - but YOU CAN MAKE IT to the deadline if you practice it daily with a mindful attitude! I love the tapping lines and the way it builds up! Very good work!


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DeGroot
post Oct 1 2014, 11:44 AM
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QUOTE (Jim S. @ Oct 1 2014, 02:31 AM) *
Ok so after another round of writing here is my semi final product. Some of the parts that I have written cant be played yet and I am not sure Ill even come close to the deadline. Some of the tapping and lead lines I want to play very uniqe slowed down but are too tricky. I am glad that I was able to write it though.

Heres the track with the modified licks to fit the time.
https://soundcloud.com/jim-seekford-music/fusing-4


Interesting sounding solo… some really cool parts in there. The ending tap lick sounds awesome. cool.gif


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Taka Perry
post Oct 1 2014, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE (DeGroot @ Sep 29 2014, 01:31 AM) *
I was inspired by Taka's track and what everyone has come up with so far. I came up with something this morning, it a bit on the metal side. Hope you enjoy! P.S. this is my first recording with my new Ibanez RG biggrin.gif

https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/fusing-genres


Hey DeGroot! I'm loving the atmospheric nature of this solo smile.gif It starts off very nicely accompanying the track, and then the tapping part comes in and it's pure awesome!

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Sep 29 2014, 07:56 PM) *
Here are the files: [attachment=39035:kris_fusing_vocals.zip]

Yes they would have needed some 'Taka' for sure!

Having the time and peace of mind to put together an album is definitely a dream for me..! However I am not sure the concept of producing a typical album suits my type of artistry, or today's music biz for that matter..

But creating more - yes I want to do that! I have been way to slow on that area and I hope to produce more stuff the coming time, may it be in the form of an album, GMC lessons or youtube video. We'll see!


I'm on holidays, so I'll have the time put together all of these files! I'm really stoked at all the wonderful entries from this collaboration, it's going to be great fun putting it together smile.gif I'm putting tomorrow aside to work on my solo part, I feel lazy after seeing all these fantastic takes tongue.gif


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Taka Perry
post Oct 2 2014, 05:38 AM
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QUOTE (Jim S. @ Oct 1 2014, 12:31 PM) *
Ok so after another round of writing here is my semi final product. Some of the parts that I have written cant be played yet and I am not sure Ill even come close to the deadline. Some of the tapping and lead lines I want to play very uniqe slowed down but are too tricky. I am glad that I was able to write it though.

Heres the track with the modified licks to fit the time.
https://soundcloud.com/jim-seekford-music/fusing-4


Your playing has tightened up a lot and the ideas are a lot more focused! It's been great seeing your progress through the multiple takes you've posted up here. Either way, this is sounding fantastic, and the tapping parts towards the end were really nice to hear smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 2 2014, 08:10 AM
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Taka - I must say that you hit the jackpot with the backing wink.gif I am pretty sure that its awesomeness is the reason why so many folks have joined and came up with such inspired takes! Great job here, matey!


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Taka Perry
post Oct 2 2014, 08:46 AM
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Alrighty, here's my take that I have been working on. The first half is a melodic solo, and then in the second half I play simpler chords and tremolo picking atmospheric style of guitar to accompany Kris' vocals. smile.gif What does everyone think? smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/taka-perry/fusing-the-genres-taka-perry-solo


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DeGroot
post Oct 2 2014, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Oct 2 2014, 07:46 AM) *
Alrighty, here's my take that I have been working on. The first half is a melodic solo, and then in the second half I play simpler chords and tremolo picking atmospheric style of guitar to accompany Kris' vocals. smile.gif What does everyone think? smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/taka-perry/fusing-the-genres-taka-perry-solo


I like that you have a melodic theme and sprinkle in some leads/fills in between the main melody. I also really like the tasteful chord right before the chorus/vocal section. The chords sit back and accent the vocals nicely. The tremelo notes add a cool atmosphere to the whole part. Sounds good!


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Kristofer Dahl
post Oct 3 2014, 09:34 AM
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QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Oct 2 2014, 09:46 AM) *
Alrighty, here's my take that I have been working on. The first half is a melodic solo, and then in the second half I play simpler chords and tremolo picking atmospheric style of guitar to accompany Kris' vocals. smile.gif What does everyone think? smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/taka-perry/fusing-the-genres-taka-perry-solo


Awesome to see you are working on it Taka.

Your thinking is right here - I can tell you have been working on building an evolving theme with your lead. This is usually what we want to hear in songs, a lead which takes us from point A to point B, in a fresh and unpredictable manner. Often in collabs people will try to squeeze in as many ideas as possible on 'their spot' - this is definitely ok from a learning perspective (ie how to put the licks you have been practicing in context) but it is not ok from a songwriting perspective.

Having said this - your lead is still very dense. The ideas of the first ~20 seconds could easily have been spread out on the double amount of time.

Slight reservation: if the song until this point has been very "slow" without too much action, then a dense lead might be ok, ie you would go wild with lots of ideas after a soft section (this is usually the purpose a regular guitar solo serves in a song). So it's hard to tell for sure without having heard the whole song.

Since you will be in charge of putting this together, you will probably not want to set anything in stone at this stage rather wait to see what you have got to work with when we have reached the deadline. Chances are you will need to do a lot of sacrifices to turn this is into a cool song (remember you started out very well with a cool backing track).

Ok so I hear you think "If I cut down on density it won't sound as cool" - and this is probably correct. It won't sound cool until you have made your new sparse take more expressive. So the key to writing a lead with vocal qualities it to have a strategy for every note, how will you attack it, how will you phrase it (exactly where will it be placed), how will you treat it (vibrato / sustain) and how will you end it?

This is what Satch does so well and probably the reason why he is pretty much the only one who has succeeded in making hit songs out of instrumental guitar music. A dynamic guitar sound also makes this a lot easier. Finding substitutes for words/vocals on the guitar is an incredible challenge!

By now I bet I have turned you off, and you're thinking how on earth am I going to accomplish this in three weeks? The good news is that pretty much all of this can be achieved in your daw. Start with writing a much sparser lead with breathing room and pauses. Now think of how you can gradually add more and more orchestration to your lead. Your primary tool will be guitar overdubs/harmonies, vsti overdubs/harmonies, and automations - for example you can automate send effects like reverb and delay, modulations (etc.) in order to get a dynamic sound.

Soundwise - your take is a bit harsh. Quick fix would be to use an EQ and maybe reverb to smoothen the highs (treble). If you think limitation lies your amp / amp sim then maybe spend a day or two trying out all the free high quality amp sims out there (just listen to the dynamic sound Darius got here with a free amp sim)

I can tell you have got some skills - so you need to spend as much time as possible testing and preparing yourself before actually putting together the end product. The more of this you do the better it will sound. And when you are done, people might think you have got some god given talent - whereas all you did was spend much more time than everyone else, working on all the subtle details.

The start (and probably the most difficult part) is to actually identify all those details, and that's what we're doing here!

Let me know if you got any thoughts about this. I have also got some possibly helpful advice for you in order to get a coherent sound from all the different takes.


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Taka Perry
post Oct 3 2014, 10:01 AM
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Cheers for the detailed reply, Kris.

You've got a lot of good points raised in your post. I think this collaboration has evolved past being a simple compilation of solos, so I think I'll need to give a better thought to structure and development of ideas. The audio clip I posted up was just a possible idea. I think being the person with the backing track project, I'll be able to spend some time putting everyone's take into a cohesive mix. That will probably be the hardest part, seeing as everyone creates their own musical 'idea' over my backing track.

Satch is one of my favorites, and I know what you mean about the aspect of expressive soloing. His solos are very vocal in nature, and it will definitely be a challenge putting everyone's take into one mix, since we are all 'saying' different things through our solos. If you've got some ideas, shoot them through! smile.gif The more advice I can get, the better. Especially from the guys here who have hosted collaborations in the past. I'll have a play around and see what I can do. The idea of sparsity reminded me of this song that I did a while back, especially around the 2:22 mark.

https://soundcloud.com/taka-perry/downfall

Since I'm coordinating the collaboration, I may as well wait until all the takes are in before seeing how they all (including mine) fit in. I'll most likely vary the backing track slightly through repetitions, to keep the whole collaboration fresh. I'll be able to mic my amp up once I get my microphone back from my friend. Got a nice ENGL combo to play around with, so I have no doubt that I'll get a good tone out of that one. I'll spend more time focusing on my tone once I get to that stage, so I won't get too caught up about my tone at the moment smile.gif

This post has been edited by Taka Perry: Oct 3 2014, 10:04 AM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 3 2014, 01:51 PM
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Hey Taka smile.gif Your note choice and phrasing are nice, but I would like to talk to you a little bit about expression smile.gif You see, you are one of the most creative folks I've ever bumped into during my existence and I think that you should put a bit more time into developing your skills as a player too, because you could do so much more once you become more proficient as a player as well wink.gif

I'd like to emphasize articulation - vibrato mostly - it could be wider and rounder and for that, I totally recommend Ben's Vibrato series - especialy this one:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Bens-Vibrato-Odyssey-5/

Each little example in this lesson will be of great assistance for your vibrato technique and I'd be curious to see a recording of the lesson done by you and then the vibrato applied with the new skills in this collab - would you be up to the challenge? wink.gif


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Taka Perry
post Oct 8 2014, 03:00 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Oct 3 2014, 10:51 PM) *
Hey Taka smile.gif Your note choice and phrasing are nice, but I would like to talk to you a little bit about expression smile.gif You see, you are one of the most creative folks I've ever bumped into during my existence and I think that you should put a bit more time into developing your skills as a player too, because you could do so much more once you become more proficient as a player as well wink.gif

I'd like to emphasize articulation - vibrato mostly - it could be wider and rounder and for that, I totally recommend Ben's Vibrato series - especialy this one:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Bens-Vibrato-Odyssey-5/

Each little example in this lesson will be of great assistance for your vibrato technique and I'd be curious to see a recording of the lesson done by you and then the vibrato applied with the new skills in this collab - would you be up to the challenge? wink.gif


Thanks for the link, Cosmin! I've been trying some different things over the past couple of days, mainly focusing on simplifying the parts but making the more expressive.

Everyone, the deadline is in a couple of days so please start getting the takes in! Can't wait to hear all of the takes come together smile.gif


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Jim S.
post Oct 8 2014, 03:41 AM
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Well the deadline is a coming and I'm still writing. Pushing myself to write speedy flowing lines. I'm not sure what the end result will be but hopefully a good mix of all my takes plus the ones still in my head. There is a good chance I'll be editing the video and not having one through take. There are some camera angles I'd like to explore and some close up shots.

How are you guys coming along with the track?
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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 8 2014, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Oct 8 2014, 02:00 AM) *
Thanks for the link, Cosmin! I've been trying some different things over the past couple of days, mainly focusing on simplifying the parts but making the more expressive.

Everyone, the deadline is in a couple of days so please start getting the takes in! Can't wait to hear all of the takes come together smile.gif


Hey Taka! That's a very good choice there smile.gif Keeping it simple and expressive and catchy, if you work on melodies, of course, will always guarantee a good result wink.gif Looking forward to hear your new take and I will have mine for you tomorrow, hopefully. I wasn't really happy with what I got so that's why I took some time. Please do try that lesson, as it will help TONS wink.gif


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Kristofer Dahl
post Oct 8 2014, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Oct 3 2014, 11:01 AM) *
If you've got some ideas, shoot them through!


Some stuff which might be helpful:

* People often dial in a guitar sound which sounds great on its own, but which is much too bass heavy for a mix. This can easily be solved with a low cut EQ. I like to use the multi band compressor for the 100-500 Hz region as it enables you to preserve a bit more of the sound, while you still can compress and lower gain of the low end.

Extremely scooped metal sounds (Todd can you hear me wink.gif ) can be nearly impossible to fit in a mix, although they can probably be really cool as rhythm guitar sound for extreme music. Simply because they don't contain much midrange at all - so when you cut away the bass there is not much left, except for some high end.

* Once problematic bass frequencies are removed, you can use your ears to EQ the different takes to make them sound coherent. An even easier option is to use an EQ match plugin. This kind of plugin allows you choose one take which sits well in the mix as a reference, and then EQ match all others against it (so they will sound similar).

* Tweak some reverb(s) and/or delay(s) and have them as send effects. This allows you to apply them on as many tracks as you want without draining your computer, and you will only need to do tweaks once for all the tracks which use the effect. Applying the same reverb/delay on all the takes is a very powerful tool to make them - and the mix - sound coherent. This is also why it's so important to get dry tracks - so you're not stuck with someone else's reverb on one track.

Also I want to say that it's extremely rewarding to mix and arrange these kind of collabs - after this kind of challenge you will find it's a piece of cake to write your next song. Because you need to be very creative and realistic (= sacrifice your darlings) to pull it off.

Can't wait to see how this works out! biggrin.gif


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Taka Perry
post Oct 9 2014, 12:14 AM
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Awesome, thanks Kris! I think it'll be a lot of fun putting this together.

I worked a bit on the solo side of things, and was playing around with something like this.

Attached File  Fusing_take_2___Taka.mp3 ( 2.49MB ) Number of downloads: 36


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 9 2014, 04:18 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Oct 8 2014, 04:19 PM) *
Extremely scooped metal sounds (Todd can you hear me wink.gif ) can be nearly impossible to fit in a mix, although they can probably be really cool as rhythm guitar sound for extreme music. Simply because they don't contain much midrange at all - so when you cut away the bass there is not much left, except for some high end.


Hey now!! smile.gif hehehehe. yeah yeah, I know, more midrange!! Got it smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 9 2014, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Oct 8 2014, 11:14 PM) *
Awesome, thanks Kris! I think it'll be a lot of fun putting this together.

I worked a bit on the solo side of things, and was playing around with something like this.

Attached File  Fusing_take_2___Taka.mp3 ( 2.49MB ) Number of downloads: 36


I like the mellow side of Taka! smile.gif Great tone - such a warm sound in the first phrases and twoards the you somehow reminded me of Mike Oldfield - his vibrato is similar to the one you used. A bit rushed, but nice smile.gif You could widen the vibrato of course, but in this context it has a certain something which I would not change... What do you think? Hope it's ok if I post my take tomorrow, I will try to record tonite, but I can barely keep my eyes open sad.gif


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