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> Gibson Drastically Changing Specs, Raising Prices In 2015
klasaine
post Sep 28 2014, 06:18 PM
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QUOTE (Mith @ Sep 28 2014, 09:33 AM) *
Take in account American guitars in in the land of Oz are crazy expensive.


That's always going to be a factor when you're not in the States.
Fender American Standard Teles and Strats - new ones - go for $1250.00 everywhere here.
You can always find used current Fender USA models ('95 to 2013 in near mint condition w/ohsc) for sometimes less than $800.00 and all over the place for less than a grand. I just watched two USA Strats go for $650 on ebay a couple weeks ago.

Gibson - another story. They have always been (since inception) the highest price 'premium' american production guitar.

*I have a beautiful 1974 LP that's gonna put my kid through a year of college one day.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Sep 28 2014, 06:23 PM


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Mith
post Sep 28 2014, 07:09 PM
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yeah over here $800 might get you Mexican standard. An American standard would be like 2k new. Really rough figures tho.

On the case of Gibson I have an amazing BC Rich mockingbird pro x and the thing plays like a dream. Plus better than and LP I've gotten my hands on and brand new is like 1/2 the cost if not less.

I dunno I guess I just look at it that if these companies want to charge boutique custom shop prices then they should be offering boutique custom guitars


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klasaine
post Sep 28 2014, 07:24 PM
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The upside is this.
There will probably be the general opinion that the 2015 Gibson's are total dogs so for awhile after that you'll be able to get one relatively mid priced or even cheap. Believe me I've seen that happen many times. In fact all the cool stuff I have was considered crap at the time. So who knows. I can tell you this ... no American made guitar will decrease in value permanently. They may dip but not for the long haul.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Sep 28 2014, 07:25 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 28 2014, 07:27 PM
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Good point smile.gif The "E-II" line has gotten a less than stellar rep out of the gate as being sub par below the previous line. Folks are looking for older models now it seems. Same thing with IBBY many years ago when production switched to korea then again to Indonesia which is why you have folks seeking out 10 year old Ibanez guitars, like me smile.gif

QUOTE (SixStringSamurai @ Sep 24 2014, 04:20 PM) *
They probably have some misguided idea that by shrinking the line and hiking the prices, they will restore/increase the "premium" factor of their branding. ESP attempted a similar thing when they cut out most of the ESP Standard Series and rebranded it as E-II. Look how that turned out for them... a fucking disaster. ESP still hasn't recovered from it.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Sep 28 2014, 07:28 PM


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Mith
post Sep 29 2014, 04:55 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Sep 29 2014, 02:27 AM) *
Good point smile.gif The "E-II" line has gotten a less than stellar rep out of the gate as being sub par below the previous line. Folks are looking for older models now it seems. Same thing with IBBY many years ago when production switched to korea then again to Indonesia which is why you have folks seeking out 10 year old Ibanez guitars, like me smile.gif


Yeah I think most companies of a certain time period where they made great guitars at great prices. I know along the jackson/charvel line of things anything that was made in japan before they moved it to Korea is much sort after. Alot of people think these ones were even better than their American counter parts that they were meant to be.

Talking about Korean guitars there are even some people that try and work out which factory the guitar would come out because they feel one factory does it better than others (quite possible to tho)


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 29 2014, 03:57 PM
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If Gibson and Fender seem overpriced... well then how bout them PRS axes? I know a thing or two about their quality control, which doesn't allow ANY but the most perfectly crafted instruments go out there on the market, but still, sometimes, I think that they are extremely expensive. - the USA models that is. Otherwise, the SE guitars are pretty much the best thing one can buy out there in terms of price VS value. Thoughts? smile.gif


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Mith
post Sep 29 2014, 04:10 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Sep 29 2014, 10:57 PM) *
If Gibson and Fender seem overpriced... well then how bout them PRS axes? I know a thing or two about their quality control, which doesn't allow ANY but the most perfectly crafted instruments go out there on the market, but still, sometimes, I think that they are extremely expensive. - the USA models that is. Otherwise, the SE guitars are pretty much the best thing one can buy out there in terms of price VS value. Thoughts? smile.gif


You know I never really played on a PRS, Like they have been at the store and all but really thats not the best way to judge a intrument. dead string horrible setups. Tho in saying that the custom guitar I'm making next month is going to have a few PRS style things about it such as the head stock.

You should let me borrow one of your PRS's Cosmin, just so I can see what they are like tongue.gif lol


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 29 2014, 04:24 PM
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Hey matey smile.gif Well, if you want to borrow one, I'm waiting for ya down in Bucharest and you can try them all ya want biggrin.gif All are equipped with Elixir strings and set up properly! I know EXACTLY what you mean with the old strings and bad setups in the guitar shops... They could sell BIG TIME .... if they took care of this aspect smile.gif


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Mith
post Sep 29 2014, 04:40 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Sep 29 2014, 11:24 PM) *
Hey matey smile.gif Well, if you want to borrow one, I'm waiting for ya down in Bucharest and you can try them all ya want biggrin.gif All are equipped with Elixir strings and set up properly! I know EXACTLY what you mean with the old strings and bad setups in the guitar shops... They could sell BIG TIME .... if they took care of this aspect smile.gif


hahahaha
sweet, I'll be there in 5 minutes lol


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Taka Perry
post Sep 29 2014, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE (Mith @ Sep 30 2014, 01:40 AM) *
hahahaha
sweet, I'll be there in 5 minutes lol


Book me a ticket and I'll pay you wink.gif Let the GMC Aussies visit Cosmin tongue.gif
Speaking of, Australia = land of overpriced musical equipment


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SixStringSamurai
post Sep 30 2014, 01:07 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Sep 29 2014, 02:57 PM) *
If Gibson and Fender seem overpriced... well then how bout them PRS axes? I know a thing or two about their quality control, which doesn't allow ANY but the most perfectly crafted instruments go out there on the market, but still, sometimes, I think that they are extremely expensive. - the USA models that is. Otherwise, the SE guitars are pretty much the best thing one can buy out there in terms of price VS value. Thoughts? smile.gif


I've never played or owned a bad PRS. EVER. I think that warrants the premium pricepoint. With Gibson, you could get an amazing specimen or a total dog, but with PRS, you know that you will always get a GOOD, and possibly GREAT guitar, if you're lucky (or have the money to drop on an Artist Package guitar with the premium woods).


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 30 2014, 01:45 AM
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I have to agree with your comment about 3k cash for a guitar. If I ever spent that kind of money for a guitar, it WON'T be for an off the rack model. It will be for a hand built custom, built to my specs. The idea of spending that kind of cake for an off the shelf guitar is beyond me. But to each his own, there is a HUGE market for off the rack guitars up to 10 grand.

Korean guitars are not bad in general, many guitars of all different brands and kinds are made in the same factories these days. Most sub $500 guitars are nearly the same guitar with subtle differences made by the same folks in the same factory.

Even the "prestige" Ibanez guitars feel more like a "Mid range" instrument instrument to me. The only Ibbys that feel like high end guitars to me nowadays are the Jcustoms but those are just crazy pricey so I keep looking to the "Golden Era" Ibbys. smile.gif

QUOTE (Mith @ Sep 28 2014, 11:55 PM) *
Yeah I think most companies of a certain time period where they made great guitars at great prices. I know along the jackson/charvel line of things anything that was made in japan before they moved it to Korea is much sort after. Alot of people think these ones were even better than their American counter parts that they were meant to be.

Talking about Korean guitars there are even some people that try and work out which factory the guitar would come out because they feel one factory does it better than others (quite possible to tho)


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 30 2014, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE (SixStringSamurai @ Sep 30 2014, 12:07 AM) *
I've never played or owned a bad PRS. EVER. I think that warrants the premium pricepoint. With Gibson, you could get an amazing specimen or a total dog, but with PRS, you know that you will always get a GOOD, and possibly GREAT guitar, if you're lucky (or have the money to drop on an Artist Package guitar with the premium woods).


Well, I must agree with the fact that you'll never miss it when it comes down to quality on PRS, but since I have almost zero experience with Gibson guitars, I will keep my mouth shut smile.gif All the Gibsons I have held in my hands so far, were made in the 90s or early '00s, which I guess makes them great axes - right?


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Mertay
post Sep 30 2014, 01:50 PM
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I checked some prices very quick and to be honest I think Gibson is trying to copy (or surpass, as if price is equal to quality tongue.gif) PRS prices smile.gif

http://www.sweetwater.com/guitargallery/el...TQ5NjYxNTYiXX19

Not PRS's fault of course biggrin.gif but it does make sense in a way as their no.1 alternative to me is PRS.

Poor approach though, PRS gives a versatile guitar with probably the best looks while Gibson is doing robot tuners tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Sep 30 2014, 01:52 PM


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bleez
post Sep 30 2014, 04:26 PM
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Maybe Im not a connoisseur of guitars but I really dont think that buying a gibson is a lottery of quality. Ive got 3 gibsons and imo they are all excellent guitars.
2 from 1990 and 1 of the 2013 models. My mate has 2 gibsons that ive played a lot and both are top quality. Ive never picked up an LP or SG that I thought was particularly bad. maybe Ive just been lucky.
That said I do have issues with the price rise and the changes they have imposed across the range.


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klasaine
post Sep 30 2014, 06:44 PM
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Gibson has always been the most expensive LARGE mass production guitar company. I guess that won't be changing wink.gif.

In my experience, ever since the late 70s (and older guys will tell you before that), you've always had to play a handful or two before you found the good one (any and all models including acoustics). IMO, that's not a positive attribute considering their prices. Fender is the same but their prices being considerably lower (and their necks and hardware being much more easily tweaked, changed and modded) nobody bitches and moans too much.

I've paid $3000 for only one guitar in my life ... and I'll never do it again. No plank of wood with a paint job, some bent metal and a 7th grade science project stuck into it is worth that kinda scratch (to me).

As for PRS ... great guitars but I personally don't like the way they look. Not my thing. A lot of guys hate Telecasters. To each his own. The appeal of Gibson for a lot of folks is that even in 2015 you will still be able to 'get a piece of American music history' for less than $2000.00. Will it be any good? That's been a gamble since probably the early 1970s.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Oct 1 2014, 02:37 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 1 2014, 05:35 AM
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PRS has taken a big chunk out of the Gibson pool IMHO. The guitars have a classic vibe but also very modern. The Gibson stuff has gotten to the point where you are really paying for the name it seems. They are going to have to adapt to keep up with PRS or keep shedding market share. They still have a huge fan base of course, but more and more it seems like they are viewed as your "Dads" or your "Uncle's" guitar.

QUOTE (Mertay @ Sep 30 2014, 08:50 AM) *
I checked some prices very quick and to be honest I think Gibson is trying to copy (or surpass, as if price is equal to quality tongue.gif) PRS prices smile.gif

http://www.sweetwater.com/guitargallery/el...TQ5NjYxNTYiXX19

Not PRS's fault of course biggrin.gif but it does make sense in a way as their no.1 alternative to me is PRS.

Poor approach though, PRS gives a versatile guitar with probably the best looks while Gibson is doing robot tuners tongue.gif



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Mertay
post Oct 1 2014, 07:28 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 1 2014, 04:35 AM) *
PRS has taken a big chunk out of the Gibson pool IMHO. The guitars have a classic vibe but also very modern. The Gibson stuff has gotten to the point where you are really paying for the name it seems. They are going to have to adapt to keep up with PRS or keep shedding market share. They still have a huge fan base of course, but more and more it seems like they are viewed as your "Dads" or your "Uncle's" guitar.


A friend of mine who studies marketing told me about that (has a name to it I forgot), example was harley davidson losing %1 or 2 customers every year biggrin.gif


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klasaine
post Oct 1 2014, 07:56 AM
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Yes, PRS has def taken some of the big G's market share but it needs to put into perspective.

1) Gibson is 120 years old. Very few of anything companies last that long.
2) Gibson grosses between 500 million and if you count all it's subsidiary holdings almost 1 billion a year.
3) Compared to PRSs 25 million or so.

As far as Gibby's being your dads or uncles guitar - ? Well that's all very genre specific. In the modern metal scene sure. Gibson = irrelevant. But for most other music that uses an electric guitar at all, Gibson and Fender are still the dominant players. You should see how the kids in bands out here scoff at my really bitchin gold top when they find upon closer inspection that it's a 'Heritage' (made in the gibson kalamazoo factory by gibson employees that bought the factory and all the wood and tooling with gibson's blessing in 1986 or so). But it doesn't say GIBSON on the headstock - so it's pretty uncool.


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Yash
post Oct 1 2014, 09:16 AM
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So.. the guitars I was playing in the shop weren't half the good they can be ? huh.gif And I already noticed a betterment in my playing... I wonder how does a well set up good instrument feels like smile.gif Can't wait for my guitar. Cosmin, arrange the guitars, I am coming over biggrin.gif

EDIT: The flight tickets are insanely cheap from Moscow to Bucharest. I might as well save up and come over someday wink.gif Probably next New Year ? No kidding biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Yash: Oct 1 2014, 09:23 AM


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