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> Chris S. Guitar Development Lab
Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 15 2014, 07:16 PM
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Great to hear you are in for this challenge matey! smile.gif I know exactly what you mean with that finger issue - it's not as difficult as it seems though, so just try to work on it slowly and make sure that your finger gets all of the three strings, ok? Isolate that specific part and work on it until it feels natural. If you can show me a video of how you do it, I will definitely come up with some support and pointers, if necessary wink.gif


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Chris S.
post Nov 15 2014, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Nov 15 2014, 06:16 PM) *
Great to hear you are in for this challenge matey! smile.gif I know exactly what you mean with that finger issue - it's not as difficult as it seems though, so just try to work on it slowly and make sure that your finger gets all of the three strings, ok? Isolate that specific part and work on it until it feels natural. If you can show me a video of how you do it, I will definitely come up with some support and pointers, if necessary wink.gif

Thanks Cosmin! Once I get past the squeamishness I shall post a video!

Also:

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/bens-vibrato-odyssey-5-fourth-attempt

I think I've improved on what you have said except for the last two bends. Whenever I get to that my fingers have a little bit of sweat on them and since I use elixirs which are slick to begin with I tend to lose my grip of the string which either causes me to be off in pitch or the string to slip under my finger completely.

Any ideas?
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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 16 2014, 08:54 AM
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Hey Chris!

MUCH MUCH better!

I think that the only spots which need focus on the pitch, would be the ones around 0:50 and 0:54 - otherwise, everything is in place and maybe playing it a bit more before recording a video that will go into the REC zone, will make the take sound more and more natural.

I too use Elixir strings exclusively, since 2010 and I too have sweaty hands laugh.gif But I slowly became acquainted with the idea of controling my strings, so I rarely have sweat caused issue when bending. The more relaxed you wil become, the more control you will have - focus on the idea and it'll slowly build up in your playing, deal? smile.gif


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Chris S.
post Nov 16 2014, 08:23 PM
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Thanks Cosmin! I'm glad I am finally getting better at my vibrato - I shall work more on the lesson and then record a video to see if it is good enough for REC cool.gif

I've been trying to analyze the theory in the Funk Swing lesson you gave me, to challenge myself and I have run into some questions already blink.gif

So before looking at anything I looked at the first part of the video - video #1.

So looking at the four chords being played:

CODE
E|-B---C#--A--A#--
B|-F#--F#--E--F---
G|-D---D---C--C#--
D|-G#--G#--F#-G---
A|-E---E---D--D#--
E|----------------


So looking at these chords I had absolutely no idea so I peeked back at the main lesson and the first two chords are an E9 and an E13.

Is the root an E because the first note is an E, or is there some other reason? I didn't guess E because I didn't know if it was an inversion of some other type of chord if that makes any sense?

I'm not familiar with either of those chords so I did some research on the 9 chords to start and I learned that a 9 chord is a dominant 7th chord with a 9th (not that I know what a dominant 7th is yet, I didn't get that far in my book yet tongue.gif )

The formula for a 9 chord is 1 3 5 b7 9

The key of E would be E F# G# A B C# D# E

So an dominant 7th E chord would be 1 3 5 b7 or E G# B and D

Where do you get the 9th from if the scale degrees only go up to 8?

And the other question that I have (I'm sorry I know this is turning out to be a lot) is that the scale that is listed for the lesson is E Minor Pentatonic which makes sense up until the last chord because then all the notes that would have been played would end up looking like this:



That doesn't look anything like a scale unsure.gif
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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 17 2014, 09:11 AM
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Hey there Chris - as usual, all you assumptions are correct smile.gif The next step that could be made after the triads lesson, would be building 4 note chords when harmonizing the major scale. The root is E indeed, no inversions there smile.gif

That can be achieved by adding 7ths to each chord, by taking into account the following aspects:

- each chord can have a 7th interval
- the 7th will be an M7 or b7 - aspect dictated by the fact that all the notes must belong to the scale

Can you apply this on the C major scale so that we may see you understood the idea? smile.gif

About the 9th - if you finish one octave from E to E and continue into the next, there are 3 interval types that take other names:

the 2nd = 9th
4th = 11th
6th = 13th

Then about the scale the chords that are being played in this lesson are scarcely stayed on, aside from the E9 and E13. The D9 and the D#9 are just used to pass through chromatically - so, the minor pentatonic could work well, but based on the other notes that make up the E dominant 9th and 13th - you could use a mix between the Mixolydian mode 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 and the blues scale - minor pentatonic with a b5.

This gives you a hybrid scale looking like this: 1 2 b3 3 4 b5 5 6 b7 - a 9 note monster scale biggrin.gif pretty cool and filled with possibilities smile.gif Hope it makes sense - let me know what your thoughts are, ok mate?


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Chris S.
post Nov 18 2014, 02:53 AM
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We have E9, E13, D9 and D#9 - so the D#9 is basically a chromatic passing tone or whatever you would call it?

I have seen it done with lead lines, where you would add a chromatic passing note/tone but I didn't know that you could do it with chords as well? Sweet smile.gif

Okay, C Major: C D E F G A B

QUOTE
the 7th will be an M7 or b7 - aspect dictated by the fact that all the notes must belong to the scale


This part confused me just a little - the M7 would be B and the b7th would be Bb - the B is part of the scale so you can't use the flat 7th?

Because a C9 would be C E G Bb and D since a 9th chord is 1 3 5 b7 9 (b7 instead of M7)?

That is why I am confused a little unsure.gif

P.S. I saw your post about making a new lesson - I can't wait! cool.gif

I'm still checking out some baritones so I can get in on the low tuning awesomeness tongue.gif
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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 18 2014, 11:06 AM
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Hehe!

Correct all the way - as usual wink.gif Chris, you are a very bright young man! I like that and let's take things to the following idea:

C7, C9 and C13 are not deduced out of the C major scale, because of that Bb wink.gif C7 = C E G Bb - this chord belongs to the F major scale.


F G A Bb C D E F - C is the 5th degree of the scale and the chord derived from it is C major, but if we want to make it a C7 we need to add its b7th which is Bb, this the chord formula above.

In the case of the C major scale, the C major chord will be a CM7, which has the C E G B formula - B is the M7 for C, thus the chord formula.

Let me know if it's clear wink.gif So, try the drill by thinking about 7th intervals that fit the C major scale triads you have used in the previous lesson and also fit the C major scale. Deal?


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Chris S.
post Nov 19 2014, 03:03 AM
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Thanks Cosmin! You always make things super easy to understand biggrin.gif

So you can have a Major 7th and/or Dominant 7th - but in order to be major it must be in the major scale of the root!

I did what you said and figured the chords from the triad lesson [prepare yourself!]:

C Major Scale - C D E F G A B

CM7 - C E G B (falls under C Major)
C7 - C E G Bb (does not)

DM7 - D F# A C# (does not)
D7 - D F# A C (does not)

EM7 - E G# B D# (does not)
E7 - E G# B D (does not)

FM7 - F A C E (falls under C Major)
F7 - F A C Eb (does not)

GM7 - G B D F# (does not)
G7 - G B D F (falls under C Major)

AM7 - A C# E G# (does not)
A7 - A C# E G (does not)

BM7 - B D# F A (does not)
B7 - B D# F Ab (does not)

So:

CM7 , FM7 and G7 all fall under the C Major scale and can be used in the key of C, correct?

Also, quick question - is there some sort of shortcut to figure out what scale a group of notes fall under?

For example, you said that C E G Bb falls under F Major, but is there an easy way to find that out?

Because I tried to find what scales all Dominant 7ths fell under but I didn't know how to find a scale with only four notes without spending A LOT of time playing guess and check.

For example: D7 is D F# A C but I was only guessing scales and turning up empty as to where it fell under, I was hoping there is some sort of secret to it?

Thanks man! cool.gif

EDIT:

I saw your post for the Dynamite Collab, and although I'm not very good or creative I really want to try and participate:

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/dynamite-idea

It's not the full length of the backing track and the playing isn't very tight I just wanted to get my idea recorded and try to develop it from there.

I know it's just your cliche pentatonic sounding solo but I was thinking of transitioning from that into the Locrian Mode and creating more of a simple melody, kind of like the melody of a theme song or something - kind of like the guitar from this piece of my childhood (guitar theme starts at 11 secs):



What do you think? unsure.gif


This post has been edited by Chris S.: Nov 19 2014, 04:13 AM
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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 19 2014, 10:36 AM
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Hey maaan!

Correct assumptions once again! Now, taking things one at a time:

- in order to make the chords that don't belong to the C major scale belong, you need to look at the chords that still have notes which are outside the scale and lower them (if they have a #, take it down one halfstep to make that note a natural one) - this will give you b3rds and b7ths - thus obtaining some m7 chords and a m7b5 chord (half diminished)
- in order to figure out which dominant chord belongs to which scale, you need to think who's 5th is the root note of that dominant chord and you found the major scale wink.gif
- the recorded idea is VERY good and it's great that you made it short and sweet! Now, the ONLY thing I'd work on would be the pulse, because you wanted to give it a shuffle/swing feel and it's not yet consistent - work on it to make it consistent throughout the whole take and things will ROCK! Who said you aren't creative? smile.gif The idea is very good and I think you should definitely go for it smile.gif

Let's see how it develops, ok?


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Chris S.
post Nov 19 2014, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE
- in order to figure out which dominant chord belongs to which scale, you need to think who's 5th is the root note of that dominant chord and you found the major scale


Thanks Cosmin! This made it so much easier!

C7 = F Major
D7 = G Major
E7 = A Major
F7 = Bb Major
G7 = C Major
A7 = D Major
B7 = E Major

cool.gif

I had trouble figuring out the B7 but I realized I made a mistake in my last post. B7 = B D# F# A and not B D# F Ab.

QUOTE
Who said you aren't creative?


My toughest critic who happens to live inside my head (worst part is he doesn't even pay rent!) tongue.gif
I will keep it short and sweet, and try to focus on the timing and making the take as clean and tight as possible!



I was going to put this right into the REC forum but I wasn't happy with the take and I knew I wouldn't pass. I don't know what the deal is, but whenever I hit the record button on my phone to record the video I get super nervous sad.gif

My hands shake and my heart starts beating really fast and Mr. Mess-up starts paying me a visit through my playing mad.gif

Listening to my last audio take and this one I realized the following:

1.) In my last audio take I played the B string, 10th fret, A note and would bend the vibrato to try to match the pitch to a B note but Ben only bends the string to an A#/Bb so I focused on that in this video.

2.) In the audio I take I play the last two bends wrong, when I played the D note I immediately went into vibrato but Ben holds the D for a slight amount of time so I did the same and tried correcting that for the video.

3.) In the video, in between the two A note bends/vibratos, being really nervous I didn't return the B note back down to an A note - I was slightly sharp when I picked the note again. So I basically bent up to a B, down to Bb instead of A, picked the Bb and bent back up to B.

I don't like this whole camera shy thing, it's really getting in the way unsure.gif

EDIT:

On a side note I came up with this:

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/city-lights-idea

I tried to incorporate what you have taught me so far. I tried to establish a groove, challenge my creativity and write something in a style I haven't done before, make my vibrato wider, break outside of the first pentatonic box shape and use chromatic passing tones, as well as using what theory I know to determine the key and what scale to use cool.gif

For some reason the strings and synth drums won't fade out with the rest of the tracks - I'm looking into how to fix this dry.gif

This post has been edited by Chris S.: Nov 20 2014, 07:05 AM
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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 20 2014, 03:24 PM
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Hah!

First things first - your recording of your idea - great man! It's nice and catchy and it could make a theme for a song anyday! You are starting to play with conviction - do you have any idea how much that means? biggrin.gif There are som slight moments of hesitation in the recording, so if you could play it until you become very, very natural with it and record it again, it could sound even nicer!

About the camera shyness - it's something normal, man smile.gif It's the nervousness that comes in when you know you need to show something. Don't think like that - just start the camera and play - playuntil you forget it's there and stop when you think you have played the best take and then, see what you got - deal? This one ain't bad, but at the end, the pitches are a bit shaky when you start playing on the B string - that's the part I'd focus on smile.gif

The note - scale associations are very correct! Keep it up Chris and you'll become a pretty darn good player, if you do smile.gif All it takes is work and determination - you have the rest! Let's see another recording of the vibrato lesson with the approach I suggested, deal?


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Chris S.
post Nov 20 2014, 08:43 PM
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I couldn't do it without you man! laugh.gif
So many things are starting to click as far as the theory goes, I can't believe how much has actually sunk in these past two months! Writing a little piece is one thing, but understanding that piece and more importantly being happy with it is an amazing feeling. cool.gif

I took your advice and just kept on recording until the nervousness died down a bit and I was happy with the REC take:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=53407

EDIT:

Do you think for theory aspect of things we can take a little time to focus on harmonizing? I was looking around youtube and I came across one of Ben's songs:



I really like the harmony that starts at 2:05 and would like to understand this concept better, what do you think my friend?

ALSO:

1.) Is there anywhere I can buy the Days of Confusion album?
2.) Do you guys have t-shirts and if so HOW DO I GET ONE?!

You guys rock! cool.gif

This post has been edited by Chris S.: Nov 21 2014, 05:22 AM
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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 21 2014, 04:07 PM
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Hey Chris!

Well, I am gladto know I helped you out man! smile.gif We can only go forward from here, so know that basically, any line you wish to harmonize can be harmonized, as long as you respect an important principle:

- think of harmonization as two separate voices moving horizontally and being harmonized vertically - if you have a melodic line, you can use thirds or 5ths to harmonize it for instance.

And to help you out with the thirds, in the first instance, here's the first example coming to mind:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Days-Of-Confusion-Meta/ - videos 10 and 12 feature the initial melodic line and then the harmonized line using thirds smile.gif Can you dissect it a bit and notice how each note in video 10 has a correspondent in video 12?



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Chris S.
post Nov 22 2014, 03:47 AM
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Okay so this is kind of embarrassing but...

Without looking at the main video text (because I didn't want to catch any of the scales or anything, I wanted to figure it out myself) I went ahead to videos 10 and 12, took the tab and translated it into note values, and then what scale and then what type of harmonies...

And then I realized that the lesson was IN DROP C and NOT E standard dry.gif tongue.gif

So the note values I got (while assuming it was in standard) were Bb C D E F G A which would be Bb Major and most of the notes in the second video were harmonized in thirds but there were a few notes that were harmonized in fourths, correct?

To fix the problem, I looked at the notes which were all played on what would be the G B and E strings - but in drop C that would be F A D which are each a whole step lower and thus I dropped all the note values I got by a whole step and got:

Ab Bb C D Eb F G which would be Ab Major right?

So all of the harmonies are in thirds, except for G/C and Bb/Eb which would be a fourth correct?

The two questions I developed from this was:

1.) Musically, what was the choice to throw in the 4ths instead of just staying to all 3rds?

2.) I noticed that the scale listed was C Aeolian, but if the scale is Ab Major, and the Aeolian mode is the 6th mode of the major scale wouldn't it be F Aeolian?

Thanks dude! biggrin.gif



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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 22 2014, 10:12 PM
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Hey matey!

All correct assumptions here, with one sole exception - Ab major is Ab Bb C Db Eb F G Ab so you missed a Db biggrin.gif Otherwise everything is correct - you transposed things correctly!

We harmonized with the fourths there because that sounded good to us tongue.gif No actual reason to it - see when harmonizing, you don't need to stick to straight usage of a single interval type, just make sure you pick notes from the scale and think of finding a line that harmonizes the one you already have. Chances are you will change it after recording it and if you would like to try some other versions which involve changing a note or two - you can always try variations smile.gif

How about the next drill - record the main melody (video 10) and then try to find another line, to harmonize it biggrin.gif What do you think?



QUOTE (Chris S. @ Nov 22 2014, 02:47 AM) *
Okay so this is kind of embarrassing but...

Without looking at the main video text (because I didn't want to catch any of the scales or anything, I wanted to figure it out myself) I went ahead to videos 10 and 12, took the tab and translated it into note values, and then what scale and then what type of harmonies...

And then I realized that the lesson was IN DROP C and NOT E standard dry.gif tongue.gif

So the note values I got (while assuming it was in standard) were Bb C D E F G A which would be Bb Major and most of the notes in the second video were harmonized in thirds but there were a few notes that were harmonized in fourths, correct?

To fix the problem, I looked at the notes which were all played on what would be the G B and E strings - but in drop C that would be F A D which are each a whole step lower and thus I dropped all the note values I got by a whole step and got:

Ab Bb C D Eb F G which would be Ab Major right?

So all of the harmonies are in thirds, except for G/C and Bb/Eb which would be a fourth correct?

The two questions I developed from this was:

1.) Musically, what was the choice to throw in the 4ths instead of just staying to all 3rds?

2.) I noticed that the scale listed was C Aeolian, but if the scale is Ab Major, and the Aeolian mode is the 6th mode of the major scale wouldn't it be F Aeolian?

Thanks dude! biggrin.gif



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Chris S.
post Nov 23 2014, 05:58 AM
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Doesn't look like I made the cut for the REC take - more motivation to make the next take even better!

QUOTE
How about the next drill - record the main melody (video 10) and then try to find another line, to harmonize it :Dbiggrin.gif What do you think?


Do you mean create my own harmony over it, or use the same harmony that you used in video 12, just not using the same guitar tab?

ALSO:

I'm trying to challenge my creativity. After the City Lights idea, I thought I would try to go for something more emotional. I created a piano backing track and I'm going to make a little solo over it and try to blend the Minor scale with the Minor Pentatonic scale (to slowly start working my way out of just using the minor pentatonic scale).

I did run into a question though. The chord progression is Am | EM | Dsus4 | Dm - and the problem is the Dsus4

Without the Dsus4 the notes are A B C D E F G# which would be A minor

But when I add in the Dsus4 you get A B C D E F G G# which is an extra note.

My question is, would the scale still remain A minor? If so how would you technically describe the scale then? A minor with an added G or something a long those lines?

Thanks! Once I have something recorded I'll post it biggrin.gif
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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 23 2014, 09:18 AM
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Hey Chris - I want you to come up with a different harmony smile.gif Your own, that is wink.gif being creative is very fun and it will always boost your motivation up, so let's see what you will concoct biggrin.gif

Well, I think that since it's Ben's lesson, his suggestions are priceless, so implement them in your playing and I am sure you will be able to come up with an even better take - deal?

About your question - the Aminor scale doesn't have a G# in its structure - it's A B C D E F G A

Your progression looks pretty strange - Am Emajor Dsus4 Dmin (I assume that EM is an Emajor chord right?)

You have two choices here - either transform the Am into an Amajor or keep the chords like this but make them span over a longer number of bars each smile.gif In that way you will have time to deploy phrases so that they would make some sense.

Am has nothing to do with Emajor mainly and that's a bit of a problem - of course, what I wrote above is more in terms of a standard theoretical approach, but music isn't about theory tongue.gif If you find ANYTHING that sounds interesting over the progression as it is, record it and we'll see how we can take it from there. Use your ears and play what sounds good - ignore theory and use it to figure out what you did, after doing it biggrin.gif If you want to change something, use theory to see what options you might have - deal, again? biggrin.gif


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Chris S.
post Nov 23 2014, 08:29 PM
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Greetings Cosmin!

Challenge accepted! I shall create my own harmony to video 10 and post the soundcloud file once I have it! biggrin.gif

QUOTE
Well, I think that since it's Ben's lesson, his suggestions are priceless, so implement them in your playing and I am sure you will be able to come up with an even better take - deal?


I am starting to get a little discouraged at this one, but then I just remember how I had a lot of trouble with the other lessons as well but after I kept working on it I eventually got it - all it takes is time and practice.

I didn't post this to the REC forum, I wasn't sure if this one was better than the last so I thought a fresh set of eyes/ears could let me know:



Sorry about the goof ups with the past few posts with the errors in my minor scales. One of the reasons I'm trying to do songs in minor is to get the practice using the formula (WHWWHWW) correctly.

How did you know that Am doesn't work with E Major? What is the theory behind that so I can use this in the future?

Thanks mate!
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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 24 2014, 11:08 AM
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Hey Chris smile.gif This one sounds like it has a lot more intention behind it!

To be honest, I think it's very close to Ben's rendition and aside the fact that you don't use your middle finger on the F note in the first three different parts, I think that the vibrato is good and consistent. Maybe the last two notes which are vibrated, could be sustained a bit heftier, but that's pretty much it, in what concerns me and my thoughts wink.gif

Well, you have learned how to harmonize a major scale - E major will appear in three situations in a scale in which it can be obtained from the 1st step, in one in which it comes from the 4th and on one in which comes from the 5th.

E major scale - E is the root
B major scale - E is the 4th
A major scale - E is the 5th

There's no Am chord that can be obtained in neither of these scales - do you agree?


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Chris S.
post Nov 24 2014, 12:47 PM
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Thanks Cosmin! I'll shoot it over to the REC forum to see if the other guys think the same biggrin.gif

I feel dumb for not seeing that! E Major is E G# B and is not in A Minor which is A B C D E F G so it wouldn't be compatible.

I shall rework the chord progression!

Thanks for being patient with me. cool.gif

EDIT:

I started learning video 10 from the Days of Confusion lesson. I like how a lot of the notes change on the "&" of the beat instead of on the metronome click - it's definitely going to challenge both my timing and my ability to keep count in my head! Once I get a grasp of it I will post a soundcloud file and if the playing is good I will then add the harmony!

This post has been edited by Chris S.: Nov 25 2014, 03:44 AM
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