How To Get A Good Rock Rhythm Sound?
bingefeller
Oct 19 2014, 02:14 PM
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How do you guys get a good rhythm sound? What settings do you use?

I'm using a Boss ME-80 into a Roland Cube Lite. I have some patches downloaded from the Boss Tone Central site that have a good rhythm sound but I can't get my own good rhythm sounds! Mine sound too warm and muddy. I've tried boosting the treble and scooping the mids slightly but then they end up too harsh!

My favourite rhythm sounds are George Lynch, Warren DeMartini, EVH, and Nuno, especially his tone on Waiting For The Punchline.

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Kristofer Dahl
Oct 19 2014, 04:45 PM
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I have never really got close to Nuno's sound (although I absolutely love it!) so I don't know of how much help I can be.

The answer also depends on which situation you want to get a good sound - for example in a mix you would not want to go for a super scooped sound. Rather something with quite a bit of midrange and punch - the fatness comes from doubling (or quadrupling) the guitar tracks. You basically record the riff 2 or 4 times as explained here:



I think you should be able to get good results from your Boss pedal, but be careful because a sound which might sound "big" to you might be hard to fit in a band situation or mix.

I am not very skilled at tweaking amp modellers, so instead i tend to go through a lot of presets until I find something which I like.

I am not really sure my answer is helpful to you, but please keep asking and we'll get there! smile.gif

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klasaine
Oct 19 2014, 04:57 PM
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Midrange is where a guitar lives, especially the rhythm guitar.
Boost the mids and cut a little bass. Use the bridge pickup. You may also want to try dialing back the distortion.
When you're playing by yourself that hyped, 'scooped' tone sounds great but disappears and/or gets mushy as soon as you try to add it to a band or a track.
Find isolated rock rhythm tracks on-line. You'll hear how mid heavy they are and they tend to have less gain than you think.

What type of guitar are you using?
Are you using pedals or just amp settings?

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bingefeller
Oct 19 2014, 05:39 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 19 2014, 03:57 PM) *
Midrange is where a guitar lives, especially the rhythm guitar.
Boost the mids and cut a little bass. Use the bridge pickup. You may also want to try dialing back the distortion.
When you're playing by yourself that hyped, 'scooped' tone sounds great but disappears and/or gets mushy as soon as you try to add it to a band or a track.
Find isolated rock rhythm tracks on-line. You'll hear how mid heavy they are and they tend to have less gain than you think.

What type of guitar are you using?
Are you using pedals or just amp settings?


I'm just using the Boss ME-80 into the Roland Cube Lite. No other pedals. My guitar is a Caparison Apple Horn Jazz.

I'll try boosting the mids a bit and see where I go from there. I have been trying to roll back on the gain on my rhythm sound a bit. I should have recorded some rhythm clips and uploaded them.

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klasaine
Oct 19 2014, 05:48 PM
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Can you find on the ME-80 just a 'vintage' style Marshall amp gain or crunch patch?
Or, if boss pedal models are available look for the SD-1 or OD-3 models.

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Gabriel Leopardi
Oct 19 2014, 09:11 PM
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Hi mate! I think that starting simple is the key. This new processors full of possibilities use to confuse us. We start to add things and things and finally we don't really know what each thing is doing. Most f our guitar heroes use to just have a great head amp and a good cabinet and that's the soul of their tone. Guys like Angus Young, Slash, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Zakk Wylde and many others connect (ed) their guitar to maybe tube screamer or a wah wah pedal directly to the guitar amp that's all.

So I like to apply the same concept to emulators. Check the amp that those guitarists that you named use, set it with your Boss pedal emulator, the same with the cabinet, and experiment with different EQ settings. There are not lots of option and possibilities when you work with a less stuff and less parameters. Try using an overdrive like tube screamer before the amp emulated. I can't explain it with words, but it's a trick that many times gives a more defined sound to the guitar tone.

As the other guys commented before using the bridge pick up and increasing mids are fundamental for a good rock rhythm tone. Try it.

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Spock
Oct 20 2014, 01:14 AM
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Also in recording, record 2 tracks of the same parts - 1 right and 1 left. The slight variation makes it sound fuller. You can't just copy and paste a recording into another track because it just doubles the volume with no variation.

In the song I'm working on with Todd I'm doing that unless the rhythm calls for the 2 guitars to be doing something different during a certain part - then I don't see a need to double up, you'll just have to drop back on the volume as all the additional guitar parts will drown out everything else and it makes levels a nightmare.

Of course I'm no pro - this is just what I've noticed through trial and error on my own.

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bingefeller
Oct 20 2014, 10:16 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Oct 19 2014, 08:11 PM) *
Hi mate! I think that starting simple is the key. This new processors full of possibilities use to confuse us. We start to add things and things and finally we don't really know what each thing is doing. Most f our guitar heroes use to just have a great head amp and a good cabinet and that's the soul of their tone. Guys like Angus Young, Slash, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Zakk Wylde and many others connect (ed) their guitar to maybe tube screamer or a wah wah pedal directly to the guitar amp that's all.

So I like to apply the same concept to emulators. Check the amp that those guitarists that you named use, set it with your Boss pedal emulator, the same with the cabinet, and experiment with different EQ settings. There are not lots of option and possibilities when you work with a less stuff and less parameters. Try using an overdrive like tube screamer before the amp emulated. I can't explain it with words, but it's a trick that many times gives a more defined sound to the guitar tone.

As the other guys commented before using the bridge pick up and increasing mids are fundamental for a good rock rhythm tone. Try it.


Gabriel, out of interest, do you have any particular EQ settings on your rhythm sounds? I liked your rhythm sound on your Black Veil Brides lesson.

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Cosmin Lupu
Oct 20 2014, 12:15 PM
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Hey mate - I have close to no experience with amp modeling myself, as I am an all tube person, plus, I am very scared of tons of parameters and I like tweaking two three buttons and presto! Having a great tone, accordingly.

Gabi's tip is closest to what I would approach things like - imagine a rig in real life and see what would it be made up from and try to re-create that rig in the modeling processor. Hope our thoughts and ideas can help!

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bingefeller
Oct 20 2014, 01:14 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Oct 20 2014, 11:15 AM) *
Hey mate - I have close to no experience with amp modeling myself, as I am an all tube person, plus, I am very scared of tons of parameters and I like tweaking two three buttons and presto! Having a great tone, accordingly.

Gabi's tip is closest to what I would approach things like - imagine a rig in real life and see what would it be made up from and try to re-create that rig in the modeling processor. Hope our thoughts and ideas can help!



Thank you! smile.gif I am getting there.

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Todd Simpson
Oct 21 2014, 02:23 AM
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It just takes time and knob twisting to find the right setting that works for your gear and your playing. There are some good tips in the posts smile.gif But it will really come down to spending time with your gear and making presets that work for you. Quick tip!


1.)Start with a preset you like, save it to a new bank. Then start tweaking it.

2.)Set your amp up to sound good with your guitar going direct in to it on a clean channel. Once that is set, then add your multi fx pedal.


QUOTE (bingefeller @ Oct 19 2014, 09:14 AM) *
How do you guys get a good rhythm sound? What settings do you use?

I'm using a Boss ME-80 into a Roland Cube Lite. I have some patches downloaded from the Boss Tone Central site that have a good rhythm sound but I can't get my own good rhythm sounds! Mine sound too warm and muddy. I've tried boosting the treble and scooping the mids slightly but then they end up too harsh!

My favourite rhythm sounds are George Lynch, Warren DeMartini, EVH, and Nuno, especially his tone on Waiting For The Punchline.

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waynedcoville
Oct 21 2014, 03:18 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 21 2014, 01:23 AM) *
It just takes time and knob twisting to find the right setting that works for your gear and your playing. There are some good tips in the posts smile.gif But it will really come down to spending time with your gear and making presets that work for you. Quick tip!


1.)Start with a preset you like, save it to a new bank. Then start tweaking it.

2.)Set your amp up to sound good with your guitar going direct in to it on a clean channel. Once that is set, then add your multi fx pedal.


Ah, the eternal quest for righteous tone. I don't believe there to be a definite answer - its all in there ear of the beholder, but here are some pointers I've learned along the way: start simple...too many effects cloud up the sound...you can always record a clean (or distorted) signal and add certain effect post recording; use subtractive EQing...instead of boosting frequencies you want, cut the ones you don't (try to keep the sliders at zero decibels or lower); play with balls...confidence, or lack there of, can affect the attack of your playing (mind, that doesn't mean play hard all the time...dynamics are very important too).
Hail Satan.

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Cosmin Lupu
Oct 21 2014, 07:37 AM
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QUOTE (waynedcoville @ Oct 21 2014, 02:18 AM) *
Ah, the eternal quest for righteous tone. I don't believe there to be a definite answer - its all in there ear of the beholder


I remember there was a time when I hated to hear that - but after a lot of exploring, I came to understand, accept and embrace it. Guess what - it actually clicked laugh.gif

Anyway - I think all the summed suggestions lead to the same conclusion - learn to explore and trust your ears in getting as close to a tone you like and last but not least... don't give up smile.gif

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Todd Simpson
Oct 22 2014, 04:16 AM
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Back to the very difficult idea of "embracing the journey" smile.gif I know we are starting to sound like "hippies" or something by now!! It's true though smile.gif It takes sooooo much time to sink in though.

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Oct 21 2014, 02:37 AM) *
I remember there was a time when I hated to hear that - but after a lot of exploring, I came to understand, accept and embrace it. Guess what - it actually clicked laugh.gif

Anyway - I think all the summed suggestions lead to the same conclusion - learn to explore and trust your ears in getting as close to a tone you like and last but not least... don't give up smile.gif

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Gabriel Leopardi
Oct 22 2014, 05:51 AM
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QUOTE (bingefeller @ Oct 20 2014, 06:16 AM) *
Gabriel, out of interest, do you have any particular EQ settings on your rhythm sounds? I liked your rhythm sound on your Black Veil Brides lesson.



Hi friend! Here you can download some of my newest patches for Lepou plugins which are free amp emulators:

Click HERE.


And talking about that lesson that you linked, these are my settings: (note that I added a tube screamer emulation before the amp)

Attached Image

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Todd Simpson
Oct 22 2014, 06:11 AM
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Good tips Gabe smile.gif But I think he's just trying to figure out how to dial in his current rig which is a small cube amp and a multi fx footpedal. Just like playing guitar, it takes time. It's frustrating at first cause you know what you want it to sound like, but can't make it sound that way. Start with a basic patch and knob twist until things start sounding better. You've got to get familiar with your gear first. Dig in!


QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Oct 22 2014, 12:51 AM) *
Hi friend! Here you can download some of my newest patches for Lepou plugins which are free amp emulators:

Click HERE.


And talking about that lesson that you linked, these are my settings: (note that I added a tube screamer emulation before the amp)

Attached Image

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Cosmin Lupu
Oct 22 2014, 07:53 AM
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This is why this question has so many answers - each and every one of us uses something different and it's very difficult to say 'this is the exact way to do it' - as Todd said, with the risk of sounding like a bunch of hippies, I will go ahead and suggest you to start exploring and in order to remove the hippy part and bring in some more earthly support - post tone samples using the same short riff here in this thread. This will give us the possibility of telling you in which direction you should go in terms of tweaking until you get closer and closer to the desired tone wink.gif

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