Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Being Heard On Stage, This guy's metal perspective
SirJamsalot
post Oct 24 2014, 02:26 AM
Post #1


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.226
Joined: 4-May 10
From: Bay Area, California
Member No.: 10.312





--------------------
The more I practice, the more I wish I had time to practice!
My Band Forum: http://passionfly.site/chat

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Oct 27 2014, 04:39 AM
Post #2


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 14.480
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



He's got some very valid points smile.gif I wish he would have made his "bad" tone sound a little worse though.
It gets in the way of his argument when his "don't do this" tone sounds pretty spiff and his "do it this way tone" sounds a bit less spiff. But he's talking about playing with other folks and then gives and example PLAYING BY HIMSELF. oops.

But he's spot on about playing live and trimming your gain back. Too much gain live can be a very bad thing. You won't be "haired" as he puts it smile.gif

QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Oct 23 2014, 09:26 PM) *



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bogdan Radovic
post Oct 27 2014, 11:18 AM
Post #3


Bass & Beginner Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.612
Joined: 30-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.410



I like the funny vibe of the video! smile.gif

He is essentially right and hits on a big stereotype which is true among young metal bands playing their first gigs or getting first taste of playing in rehearsal room. This is mostly related to the fact that we play most of our time alone in our room with our amp. Naturally, we want to set the amp to sound as cool as possible. That is where we get the nice bassy tone with tons of gain and a bit scooped mids. It just sounds cool that way when we are playing alone. Same with acoustic guitar which has a built in mic preamp and if we are playing it through amp or speakers - we would set it pretty bass heavy to make it sound big (if we are playing alone). What happens is that on stage those rules don't apply anymore and we need to compete for our space in the frequency spectrum. Add a lot of bass in the signal and your guitar will sound slightly muddy and get "eaten" by bass guitar and kick drum.

What is essential for young musician to realise is that you can't set the exact same tone as in your practice room and sound good on stage. One needs to compensate "for the greater good" smile.gif Usual tricks to get to "cut through" the mix on stage is to use more defined tone (slightly less gain than usual) as well as more mid frequencies which everyone from guitar players to bass player run away whenever possible smile.gif The goal is to get a nice and defined tone which doesn't get "eaten" by other instruments in a band like bass guitar, drums, cymbals etc. Also, having two guitarists playing in a band adds another degree of difficulty and they need to setup different tones so that they don't compete rather complement each other in the frequency range and overall tone.

In practice, it does prove that it is quite difficult to set the tone on stage which you think "sucks". This is why bands with more live experience sound better over time as they start compensating and discovering how they can setup their gear for best live performance.


--------------------
For GMC support please email support (at) guitarmasterclass.net
Check out my lessons and my instructor board.
Check out my beginner guitar lessons course! ; Take a bass course now!
My solo and band songs : Keep Going On, Night Vibe, Kad Te Vidim, Susret, Plava Silueta
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SirJamsalot
post Oct 27 2014, 07:43 PM
Post #4


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.226
Joined: 4-May 10
From: Bay Area, California
Member No.: 10.312



Case in point - I brought my studio amp to practice last Thursday - it sounded superb in my studio - I had it dialed in to the room's acoustics and it sounded heavenly - our practice room was about 3 times as large as my studio, and it just didn't have the umph / tone, great sound I had dialed in. It took some major tweaking to get it fit into the dynamics of our practice. If it were mic'd, I'm sure it would have sounded great, but unless you're using an in-ear system, what comes out of the amp on stage is crucial to feeling good about what you're playing. Floor monitor mixes are hit/miss depending on who your sound man is.





QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Oct 27 2014, 03:18 AM) *
I like the funny vibe of the video! smile.gif

He is essentially right and hits on a big stereotype which is true among young metal bands playing their first gigs or getting first taste of playing in rehearsal room. This is mostly related to the fact that we play most of our time alone in our room with our amp. Naturally, we want to set the amp to sound as cool as possible. That is where we get the nice bassy tone with tons of gain and a bit scooped mids. It just sounds cool that way when we are playing alone. Same with acoustic guitar which has a built in mic preamp and if we are playing it through amp or speakers - we would set it pretty bass heavy to make it sound big (if we are playing alone). What happens is that on stage those rules don't apply anymore and we need to compete for our space in the frequency spectrum. Add a lot of bass in the signal and your guitar will sound slightly muddy and get "eaten" by bass guitar and kick drum.

What is essential for young musician to realise is that you can't set the exact same tone as in your practice room and sound good on stage. One needs to compensate "for the greater good" smile.gif Usual tricks to get to "cut through" the mix on stage is to use more defined tone (slightly less gain than usual) as well as more mid frequencies which everyone from guitar players to bass player run away whenever possible smile.gif The goal is to get a nice and defined tone which doesn't get "eaten" by other instruments in a band like bass guitar, drums, cymbals etc. Also, having two guitarists playing in a band adds another degree of difficulty and they need to setup different tones so that they don't compete rather complement each other in the frequency range and overall tone.

In practice, it does prove that it is quite difficult to set the tone on stage which you think "sucks". This is why bands with more live experience sound better over time as they start compensating and discovering how they can setup their gear for best live performance.



--------------------
The more I practice, the more I wish I had time to practice!
My Band Forum: http://passionfly.site/chat

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Oct 27 2014, 08:56 PM
Post #5


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.824
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



It's not just a hard rock or metal scenario either.
I coach/mentor middle school/high school and even college age kids in ensemble settings both rock and jazz and the first thing I have to do is talk about *tone production* on a stage .
Gain - down, Bass - down

*The second thing is intonation. And the third thing is, "you don't know it as well as you thought you did - ?"


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SirJamsalot
post Oct 28 2014, 09:13 PM
Post #6


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.226
Joined: 4-May 10
From: Bay Area, California
Member No.: 10.312



QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 27 2014, 12:56 PM) *
*snip* ... And the third thing is, "you don't know it as well as you thought you did - ?"


biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


--------------------
The more I practice, the more I wish I had time to practice!
My Band Forum: http://passionfly.site/chat

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th May 2017 - 11:18 PM