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> Crazy Frets
Phil66
post Oct 25 2014, 07:20 PM
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I've never seen these before and they look strange wacko.gif

http://www.truetemperament.com/

http://www.truetemperament.com/necks/

http://www.freakguitar.com/applehorn.html

Wild rolleyes.gif

Phil


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Bogdan Radovic
post Oct 25 2014, 07:49 PM
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Those frets indeed look funky smile.gif

I heard about the system behind it and it does make sense. Currently it is not possible to get truly 100% spot on tuning of notes across the guitar fretboard and those wiggly frets should be compensating for that. I wonder if anyone played one of those guitars or have more information? How does it feel playing a guitar with such fretboard and also is the intonation spot on?


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Phil66
post Oct 25 2014, 07:54 PM
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I was wondering what it would feel like when bending or doing vibrato huh.gif

Phil


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 31 2014, 09:53 AM
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That's the TRUE TEMPERAMENT system and it costs over $1,000 to do it to your guitar. You can buy guitars as you've linked with it pre-done. It raises the cost a bit smile.gif

The process claims that it creates "perfect" intonation all along the neck. It's done per guitar so it's something that takes a good bit of effort. One could always grab the electronics out of one of those peavey guitars that use an on board autotune circuit to maintain perfect tune and skip the process and save the cash smile.gif But it does look cool.

I'd really like to try a scalloped True Tremp neck smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 25 2014, 02:20 PM) *


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SirJamsalot
post Oct 31 2014, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 25 2014, 11:20 AM) *


those images at the top of the applehorn page look ... um.... wrong.


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Phil66
post Oct 31 2014, 08:57 PM
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Looking at them shows how far out a guitar can be with normal bridge intonation sad.gif


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Kristofer Dahl
post Nov 1 2014, 10:30 PM
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These necks come from a well respected Luthier here in Stockholm (Paul Guy). I have always wanted to have one.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Oct 31 2014, 09:57 PM) *
Looking at them shows how far out a guitar can be with normal bridge intonation sad.gif


Yes! Intonation on the guitar is a huge problem - much bigger than people realize. Because of this, only a few players with amazing pitch/vibrato control can actually play a good sounding and slow melody with sustained notes.

Also, many chord voicings will sound horrible without some kind of modulation effect (ie chorus) to hide the out-of-tune notes.

After a while we learn to work around this problem, some people even argue it's not a problem and that it just adds character to the instrument. But I think the guitar is so sensitive to our input that we don't really need this kind of additional handicap.

wow I should probably have got one of these a long time ago or switched to piano blink.gif


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klasaine
post Nov 1 2014, 10:41 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Nov 1 2014, 02:30 PM) *
Yes! Intonation on the guitar is a huge problem - much bigger than people realize. Because of this, only a few players with amazing pitch/vibrato control can actually play a good sounding and slow melody with sustained notes.

Also, many chord voicings will sound horrible without some kind of modulation effect (ie chorus) to hide the out-of-tune notes.

After a while we learn to work around this problem, some people even argue it's not a problem and that it just adds character to the instrument. But I think the guitar is so sensitive to our input that we don't really need this kind of additional handicap.


Yeah, I don't think it's a 'problem' at all. It can be annoying on a crappy instrument or one that is horribly out of adjustment.

We've been tuning more or less to what we now call 12-tone equal temperament (12 tet) for a long time (JS Bach, 17th cent). Pianos, keyboards, all fretted insts and most keyed/valved wind and brass insts are pretty 'fixed' as far as their intonation is concerned. It'll only even become an issue when a fixed, equal temperament instrument plays in an ensemble with 'justly' tuned instruments. And even then I bet most folks wouldn't even notice the pitch discrepancies.

A well made guitar or bass with a proper set up as well as a player that knows how to properly fret a string not to mention tune their instrument can play very in tune, long melodies as well as thousands of different chord voicings in all keys.

Equal temperament was an incredibly liberating discovery allowing large ensembles of varied and different instruments to be able to play together in tune and in more than one or two keys. In fact 'equally' in tune (or equally out of tune if you're a baroque era cynic) over all 12 keys. It made modulation possible. The importance of equal temperament to western music can not be over stated.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Nov 1 2014, 11:07 PM


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Phil66
post Nov 1 2014, 11:15 PM
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Equal temperament explained here >>>>> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament

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Hexabuzz
post Nov 2 2014, 01:07 AM
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We can always strive for "better", but it's a compromise...

I was pretty surprised when watching (and listening) to this, about the differences in tuning - I realize that some people are extremely sensitive to this, but I think we've done a pretty good job with how equal temperament sounds...

When you examine it as a "science experiment", I think what you'll find is that it's not the system itself, but that people can't tune their guitars! tongue.gif

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Kristofer Dahl
post Nov 2 2014, 09:37 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Nov 1 2014, 11:41 PM) *
A well made guitar or bass with a proper set up as well as a player that knows how to properly fret a string not to mention tune their instrument can play very in tune, long melodies as well as thousands of different chord voicings in all keys.

Equal temperament was an incredibly liberating discovery allowing large ensembles of varied and different instruments to be able to play together in tune and in more than one or two keys. In fact 'equally' in tune (or equally out of tune if you're a baroque era cynic) over all 12 keys. It made modulation possible. The importance of equal temperament to western music can not be over stated.


Yes equal temperament rocks, but guitars by their nature have problems reproducing it across the entire fretboard.

And as you say - a lot of skills and requirements is necessary to make a guitar sound in tune. Of course, for those of us who have spent half a life time (or more) working around this, we don't really mind.

However I do think it's a shame the guitar is so difficult for beginners. It's definitely worth it though, because the electric guitar is more expressive than any other instrument I can think of (human voice excepted).

But like I said, because the guitar is so receptive to whatever subtle input we give it (micro bend, fretting hand tension, slight change in picking dynamics etc) - controlling just these parameters alone is a huge challenge. We don't really need that additional handicap (the fact that it is impossible to intonate a guitar for it to be 'true' equal temperament).


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klasaine
post Nov 2 2014, 04:05 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Nov 2 2014, 01:37 AM) *
However I do think it's a shame the guitar is so difficult for beginners.


I'll agree that learning the guitar in the beginning is a physically demanding endeavor but winds and strings are far more difficult in the early stages to play in tune. Hell, just to get a sound out of a sax can take a day or two. A saxophone or trumpet or flute player must constantly adjust their embouchure, speed of their air and how opened their throat is just to play a C major scale in tune in one octave. String instruments - forget about it - no frets. It's all 'adjustment'. The only instrument easier than guitar for a beginner - intonation wise - is a piano. And like a piano, a guitar can at least produce a sound instantly. That's why guitar and piano are so popular.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Nov 2 2014, 04:10 PM


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