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> Casual Militarism?
Todd Simpson
post Nov 7 2014, 01:59 AM
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I was "tank spotting" the other day on Ben's Facebook TANK TUESDAY posts and realized that in the states we have a sort of "casual militarism" that I don't see in other countries as much.

For example....

Folks here, generally speaking of course, have some sort of weapons training (even if just from a father/uncle/etc.) and some sort of weapon in the home, (pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc.) and I"m no exception.

Recently when CHRISTIAN/Gitarrero visited my home town all the way from Germany, and we went to the Gun Range, it struck me as odd that neither him nor his traveling buddy had ever touched a firearm, much less loaded one. To be sure, MANY people here can say the same thing. Never handled/loaded a gun. But, especially here in the south, it's more common that folks know their way around guns.

We just take it for granted that everyone knows the difference in loading/unloading a revolver vs a 1911 semiautomatic. We also take it for granted that certain weapon systems are so familiar to us as to not need naming, e.g. tanks/fighter planes/automatic rifles, just because the nomenclature is common knowledge.

Only by interacting with folks from Europe basically am I starting to see that we here in the states have a "Militarized", "Weaponized", "War footed" culture that is so deeply ingrained we don't even see it.

What do you guys think? Especially folks in other countries? Are we really that different in such things?

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This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Nov 7 2014, 02:04 AM


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Hexabuzz
post Nov 7 2014, 02:41 AM
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Todd,

You don't have to travel even that far...

I have a bunch of Canadian friends who are baffled, amazed, and in some ways actually terrified of the proliferation of gun culture and gun violence here...

All I'm going to say is that even if it doesn't change your mind or values, it's always good to see what others think of what is occurring, and considered an "average" situation. A different perspective has a lot to offer...

This post has been edited by Hexabuzz: Nov 7 2014, 02:42 AM
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Spock
post Nov 7 2014, 03:24 AM
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I carry a gun because I'm too young to die, and too old to take an ass whoopin.

I just purchased a sweet little tiny 380 a couple weeks ago. I also have an M4 semi-automatic and a CZ-75 PO1 (NATO side arm).

My thinking is, if you outlaw guns, you only take the means of protection away from the law abiding citizens, because the criminals will have them.

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klasaine
post Nov 7 2014, 03:26 AM
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I spend some time in Europe every year.
Yeah, we're a little different in the States. It's pretty difficult trying to explain why an 18 year old here isn't allowed to have a beer but they can buy a long gun (rifle) at any 'Big 5' store 7 days a week.

*I personally 'get it'. I'm not anti-gun at all (I'm anti idiot who gets a gun). I also understand the unique historical significance and circumstance in the USA of gun ownership but it is definitely an interesting conversation when it comes up with my Euro peeps.


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Spock
post Nov 7 2014, 03:27 AM
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FYI - this is a fake photo.

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Todd Simpson
post Nov 8 2014, 03:26 AM
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Yup smile.gif Bit it makes the point pretty effectively. It's not Sarah Palin, but it's some gal in a Bikini with Rifle. smile.gif
QUOTE (Spock @ Nov 6 2014, 10:27 PM) *
FYI - this is a fake photo.

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True smile.gif We are a bit "agro" compared to the Canadians as well. Although, they just had one of those nut job shooters in their parliament!! Looks like they are becoming more American every day smile.gif

QUOTE (Hexabuzz @ Nov 6 2014, 09:41 PM) *
Todd,

You don't have to travel even that far...

I have a bunch of Canadian friends who are baffled, amazed, and in some ways actually terrified of the proliferation of gun culture and gun violence here...

All I'm going to say is that even if it doesn't change your mind or values, it's always good to see what others think of what is occurring, and considered an "average" situation. A different perspective has a lot to offer...



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Chris S.
post Nov 8 2014, 03:57 AM
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I live in a pretty rough neighborhood - to the point where you can sleep through gunshots because you're so used to them unsure.gif

I always conceal carry - I'd rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it.
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Todd Simpson
post Nov 8 2014, 08:05 AM
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What was the process for getting a conceal permit? Assuming you are not "riding dirty" smile.gif

QUOTE (Chris S. @ Nov 7 2014, 10:57 PM) *
I live in a pretty rough neighborhood - to the point where you can sleep through gunshots because you're so used to them unsure.gif

I always conceal carry - I'd rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it.



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bleez
post Nov 8 2014, 09:34 AM
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It blows my mind a bit when I read posts where you guys talk about walking around with guns. Its like a different reality ohmy.gif Ive never seen anyone over here with a gun, other than air guns and stuff like that.
Ive only fired one gun in my life. I was in Canada, having a bunch of beers with some folks and they started talking about guns, I mentioned that Id never seen a live gun in real life...... the entire room went silent smile.gif it was quite funny. two minutes later I was outside with a shotgun!

I dunno if its better or worse living without guns but if they were legal over here I'd definitely have one!





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Ben Higgins
post Nov 8 2014, 10:21 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Nov 7 2014, 03:26 AM) *
*I personally 'get it'. I'm not anti-gun at all (I'm anti idiot who gets a gun).


I'm kind of the same.

I think there's different kinds of gun appreciation too.

You get people who understand and respect exactly what these things do and are meant to do. They don't celebrate it, they don't glorify it, they just treat it as a necessary (and hopefully never needed) aspect of life in an area where the likelihood of needing said thing is higher than other areas.

Then you get the ones who love weapons.. and I mean, really love them. In a wrong way.

We're all big kids at heart and I don't think there's anything wrong with being a bit excited at a big tank or a 50 Cal.. but in a big kid way. But the kinds of people I'm on about are those that protest a little too much. The kind of people who secretly would welcome the opportunity to shoot somebody in 'self defense'.





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Spock
post Nov 8 2014, 11:44 AM
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I'm taking another concealed weapons course next Saturday as I allowed my permit to expire over 90 days before renewing.

The thing is I don't carry a firearm on me all the time, rarely as a matter of fact, but I do keep one in the car with me. Anyone with a firearm must have a serious respect for it our else an accident could happen out of carelessness. Like this guy, who's just a little too confident of himself.



I never keep a round in the chamber, I'm just paranoid enough to think I might shoot my foot off, or that it could just fire on it's own.

That's what i love about the 380, it does have a safety on it, my CZ does not, just a de-cocker, and I've never felt comfortable with that.

As they say, "when you're seconds from mortal danger, the police are only minutes away".

Thought this was funny, and a god illustration of how why I'm super cautious with a weapon...



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Chris S.
post Nov 8 2014, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 8 2014, 07:05 AM) *
What was the process for getting a conceal permit? Assuming you are not "riding dirty" smile.gif

Here in PA you only need $30 and a clean record to file for one which is pretty scary.

I took a conceal carry class before hand and logged around 1000 rounds at the range before I got mine (not required but I feel like it should be).
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jstcrsn
post Nov 8 2014, 01:05 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 8 2014, 08:05 AM) *
What was the process for getting a conceal permit? Assuming you are not "riding dirty" smile.gif

here where I live, you have to pass a class on safety, some legalities, and be able to hit your target at 9, 15 and thirty feet. pass a thorough background check and be registered and approved by your local sheriff.

this a big responsibility and I have no respect for people who get there license and don't have any or don't train with their firearm often
I also don't keep mine chambered ,as I have kids,and have a higher probability of them tickling the trigger, then me ever needing to pull it .
As far as my kids tickling the trigger , I mean to young to know what a gun is and would just be hangin in dad.once they are about 4 or 5 , I start teaching them the dangers of a gun, they are meant to kill. I take them with me and teach safety and let them shoot so they have a clear understanding of the dangers and power of a firearm

BTW, You never put your finger on the trigger until you are aiming, you never aim at something you are not ready to shoot, if you can't respect this always you should not be shooting

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llibach
post Nov 8 2014, 05:51 PM
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I do own a gun and live in the UK but it's for a whole different reason to you guys. You all talk about it being protection and so is mine but to protect my livestock from foxes, (which are a pain in the ass) and sometimes to hunt pheasant or pigeons. I only have a shotgun license and own one 12 bore over under gun but I'm actually in the process of applying for a firearms license because a shotgun has limited range and foxes don't hang around if they sense you.
There are a few of us over here with guns but i's mostly people who live in rural areas and definitely not a common thing.

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Kristofer Dahl
post Nov 8 2014, 06:55 PM
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Interesting topic, and as mentioned difficult for us Europeans to understand.

I am very fortunate to live in a super calm neighborhood, and I almost always have.

I can understand how it might feel safer to carry a gun. But common sense tells me that if a situation becomes threatening, it wont get better if I start wagging with a gun... or will it?


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AK Rich
post Nov 8 2014, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 7 2014, 11:05 PM) *
What was the process for getting a conceal permit? Assuming you are not "riding dirty" smile.gif

Here are Alaska's laws concerning "conceal carry."

Alaska's laws do not prohibit anyone 21 or older who may legally possess a firearm from carrying it concealed. A special permit is not required.

Possession of a firearm, whether concealed or open, is restricted in some circumstances and locations.

Alaska Statutes Alaska Statutes 11.61.190 through 11.61.220 describe conduct with a weapon that is criminal. There is no prohibition against carrying a concealed weapon so long as the prohibited behaviors regarding the carry are respected:

The person is 21 years or older.
The person is eligible to own or possess a handgun under state and federal laws
The firearm is legal.
Upon contact with a peace officer, the person immediately informs the officer about the weapon, and allows the officer to secure the weapon for the duration of the contact.
The person does not carry the weapon if they are intoxicated or impaired by alcohol or controlled substances
The person does not carry the concealed weapon in certain places:
In someone else's home without their specific knowledge and permission
In any place where intoxicating liquor is sold for on-site consumption, except a restaurant and the person does not consume alcohol beverages
In or around any public or private K-12 school or on a school bus without the knowledge and consent of the school's administrator. (weapons may be unloaded and locked in the trunk of a car or secured in a locked container)
In or around a child care facility. (weapons may be unloaded and locked in the trunk of a car or secured in a locked container)
In a courthouse, court room, or office of the court system or justice related agencies
In domestic violence or sexual assault shelters.

Alaska's laws do not apply to federal property, offices, installations, or places under federal jurisdiction. Such places can include national parks, military bases, federal court buildings, space rented by federal offices, airports, or airport terminal areas. Please consult with the appropriate federal agency before deciding if weapon carry or concealed carry is permitted.

The owners or management of facilities, including such places as hospitals, universities, gymnasiums, or private property, may restrict or deny concealed carry on their premises. Failure to comply while on their property could violate trespass statutes.

http://www.dps.state.ak.us/Statewide/permi...edhandguns.aspx
http://www.dps.state.ak.us/statewide/Permi...nsing/inAK.aspx

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klasaine
post Nov 8 2014, 07:27 PM
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You guys have Wolves and Grizzly Bears running around everywhere in Alaska. Not too mention those Moose are friggin' huge!
I would absolutely carry in Ak. When I was there (in Eagle River) it seemed that most of the locals did.


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Mertay
post Nov 8 2014, 07:57 PM
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In Turkey I heard its not really hard to get a licence to keep in house (specially rifles for hunting) but very difficult to carry them with you.

I 2-3 times used a hunting rifle to shoot empty cans and also we have compulsory militar service here. Even in the army I fired a machine gun only once in semi mode for training. Though my job was mostly management, like commandos get to fire all sorts of weapons.

I guess its also about inner economy, like where I live (İzmir, 3rd biggest city in Turkey and 4.000.000 people live here) I only know 2 maybe 3 gun store and all of them only sell hunting rifles. Maybe thats why not carrying a gun works here as there aren't many to distribute anyway biggrin.gif

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AK Rich
post Nov 8 2014, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Nov 8 2014, 10:27 AM) *
You guys have Wolves and Grizzly Bears running around everywhere in Alaska. Not too mention those Moose are friggin' huge!
I would absolutely carry in Ak. When I was there (in Eagle River) it seemed that most of the locals did.

laugh.gif It's true! There are plenty of critters running around up here than can and will kill you! However, you really don't see the majority of people carrying firearms up here especially in urban areas. Like if you go to the shopping mall or grocery store you may not even see one, although it is not surprising to see some here and there occasionally. The further away from town that you get , the more likely it is that you may see folks carrying. Especially if you are out on a hike , camping , or at a popular fishing spot. Since we can carry concealed I wouldn't be surprised if lots of folks carry but I doubt it would be the majority in the urban areas. And in rural and remote areas I think most folks just carry openly.
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AK Rich
post Nov 9 2014, 01:46 AM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Nov 8 2014, 11:03 AM) *
laugh.gif It's true! There are plenty of critters running around up here than can and will kill you! However, you really don't see the majority of people carrying firearms up here especially in urban areas. Like if you go to the shopping mall or grocery store you may not even see one, although it is not surprising to see some here and there occasionally. The further away from town that you get , the more likely it is that you may see folks carrying. Especially if you are out on a hike , camping , or at a popular fishing spot. Since we can carry concealed I wouldn't be surprised if lots of folks carry but I doubt it would be the majority in the urban areas. And in rural and remote areas I think most folks just carry openly.
I should probably add that gun ownership is a different matter. I would wager that the vast majority of residents here own at least 1 firearm.

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