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> Obscura Sound
enlo22
post Nov 7 2014, 07:01 AM
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Hey guys, I was hoping you guys could help me out on this. Lately I've been listening a lot obscura, and the leads are really cool to me. They have a certain sound, i'm not sure how to describe it. I was wondering if it's a specific mode or something, idk they sound some what fusion like and i'm not sure as to how to achive the sound. If you guys could give me an idea of the mode or chords/scales used on this solo it'd be great. Its possible to learn with tabs etc, but i'm wanting to understand more of the theory behind it so I can create things of this nature! i'm not sure if it's the fretless bass that gives it the unique sound or if it's a mode or something lol either way the fret less bass rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEMSlHCEu8A

the arpeggio at 3:12 and the solo at 3:27 those are the more intriguing sounds I'm asking about


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Monica Gheorghev...
post Nov 7 2014, 01:17 PM
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Definitely a fretless bass has a specific sound but judging that Jeroen studied at conservatory jazz bass, it's clear that not only the fretless bass make the difference, but also his own arrangements.
After I listened the song that you posted and "Orbital elements" (BTW this song reminds me of "The Call of Ktulu" by Metallica tongue.gif ) the curiosity pushed me to find more about their bass sound. I found an interesting interview with Jeroen (I don't know if you saw this) and he spoke about used gear and why he make this arrangements in songs (" because the vocals are kind of monotone and somehow this music gives you a lot of room to play melodic arrangement " biggrin.gif)
BTW I tried to find a bass cover on YT and what I saw was kind of "funny" and totally opposite with reality sad.gif

http://cms.bassplayer.com/features/1172/je...f-obscura/26048
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Nov 7 2014, 04:10 PM
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Hi mate! I've been playing along with the song, learning some riffs and also those arpeggios that you marked. I noticed that they tend to combines scales like minor, Phrygian mode and harmonic minor. I also note the use of some modes from the harmonic minor scale in some sections as well as the diminished arpeggios which are the ones used in the section that you marked.

Check out this lesson that includes all the modes from the harmonic minor scale: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/modal-...ic-minor-modes/

It's also important to analyze their use of modulation. They move from one tonality to the other by jumps very often so I recommend you to write down all the different movements that they do to get some kind of "theory" behind it. I'm sure that this is not something related to theory, it's more based on what their ears and creative mind suggest to do, so it's a good idea to analyze it.


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enlo22
post Nov 7 2014, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Nov 7 2014, 03:10 PM) *
Hi mate! I've been playing along with the song, learning some riffs and also those arpeggios that you marked. I noticed that they tend to combines scales like minor, Phrygian mode and harmonic minor. I also note the use of some modes from the harmonic minor scale in some sections as well as the diminished arpeggios which are the ones used in the section that you marked.

Check out this lesson that includes all the modes from the harmonic minor scale: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/modal-...ic-minor-modes/

It's also important to analyze their use of modulation. They move from one tonality to the other by jumps very often so I recommend you to write down all the different movements that they do to get some kind of "theory" behind it. I'm sure that this is not something related to theory, it's more based on what their ears and creative mind suggest to do, so it's a good idea to analyze it.


hey gabe, I've noticed that they also do things like : Eminor to D minor.. is that diatonic or what is it lol stuff like that is what confuses me. I'm not sure if i'm stuck in the diatonic world when there's something more like making your own prgressions without following the minor/maj/dim rule?

"They move from one tonality to the other by jumps " could you explain that a bit more smile.gif
I love their music it's just confusing lol

QUOTE (Monica Gheorghevici @ Nov 7 2014, 12:17 PM) *
Definitely a fretless bass has a specific sound but judging that Jeroen studied at conservatory jazz bass, it's clear that not only the fretless bass make the difference, but also his own arrangements.
After I listened the song that you posted and "Orbital elements" (BTW this song reminds me of "The Call of Ktulu" by Metallica tongue.gif ) the curiosity pushed me to find more about their bass sound. I found an interesting interview with Jeroen (I don't know if you saw this) and he spoke about used gear and why he make this arrangements in songs (" because the vocals are kind of monotone and somehow this music gives you a lot of room to play melodic arrangement " biggrin.gif)
BTW I tried to find a bass cover on YT and what I saw was kind of "funny" and totally opposite with reality sad.gif

http://cms.bassplayer.com/features/1172/je...f-obscura/26048



Hey monica, I think that they have a new bass player now, they also added a fretless guitar player so we'll see how that goes. Yeah i'm sure it's not just the bass but the player as well smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 8 2014, 05:31 PM
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Hey Marco - you can of course jump as Gabi said - by that, I think he meant that you can consider some chords as pivots that can be used to switch keys. For instance, if you play the E minor chord - you can see it as the 3rd step of the C major scale or as the 6th step of the G major scale, or as the 2nd step of the D major scale, for instance - so you can continue your progression accordingly, by using chords derived from another key than the one in which you started smile.gif Have you thought of this until now?


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enlo22
post Nov 8 2014, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Nov 8 2014, 04:31 PM) *
Hey Marco - you can of course jump as Gabi said - by that, I think he meant that you can consider some chords as pivots that can be used to switch keys. For instance, if you play the E minor chord - you can see it as the 3rd step of the C major scale or as the 6th step of the G major scale, or as the 2nd step of the D major scale, for instance - so you can continue your progression accordingly, by using chords derived from another key than the one in which you started smile.gif Have you thought of this until now?


ohh cool man, so for example if i'm in e minor, and then i want to switch keys, to lets say D maj. Could I then thnk of E minor as the 2 chord of D major, and change keys to D maj, using the chords from the key of D maj?

I think I was reading about this and it lead me to learn about secondary dominants to add tension. For example if i'm in C maj, and I want to go to a F I can use a C dominant chord to add more tension to the change and it'd temporarily would make F maj the tonic note?

This post has been edited by enlo22: Nov 8 2014, 06:09 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Nov 8 2014, 11:36 PM
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QUOTE (enlo22 @ Nov 8 2014, 02:08 PM) *
ohh cool man, so for example if i'm in e minor, and then i want to switch keys, to lets say D maj. Could I then thnk of E minor as the 2 chord of D major, and change keys to D maj, using the chords from the key of D maj?

I think I was reading about this and it lead me to learn about secondary dominants to add tension. For example if i'm in C maj, and I want to go to a F I can use a C dominant chord to add more tension to the change and it'd temporarily would make F maj the tonic note?


Exactly! That's how secondary dominants work. There are different ways to use modulation, you can use secondary dominants, you can use the pivots idea that Cosmin explained, or you can just jump a tone, a third or try other jumps. The trick is usually leading the melody right to make the modulation natural. There is another good tool to make more interesting chord progressions that is called "modal interchange", do you know it?


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enlo22
post Nov 9 2014, 05:42 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Nov 8 2014, 10:36 PM) *
Exactly! That's how secondary dominants work. There are different ways to use modulation, you can use secondary dominants, you can use the pivots idea that Cosmin explained, or you can just jump a tone, a third or try other jumps. The trick is usually leading the melody right to make the modulation natural. There is another good tool to make more interesting chord progressions that is called "modal interchange", do you know it?


awesome man, smile.gif I was afraid I was wrong, because I learned all this yesterday haha! but i'm glad i'm correct and now I can apply it more securely. I've never heard of that one "modal interchange" This is why I wish I had a guitar teacher who could teach me all these tricks lol, because i'm sure there as soooo many things i'm unaware of :/ but then again, I think that there's always something new to learn!


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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 9 2014, 09:27 AM
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QUOTE (enlo22 @ Nov 9 2014, 04:42 AM) *
awesome man, smile.gif I was afraid I was wrong, because I learned all this yesterday haha! but i'm glad i'm correct and now I can apply it more securely. I've never heard of that one "modal interchange" This is why I wish I had a guitar teacher who could teach me all these tricks lol, because i'm sure there as soooo many things i'm unaware of :/ but then again, I think that there's always something new to learn!


Indeed! You should always be in a constant learning process - don't worry about not knowing everything though. You don't need to know everything in order to make great music, but you need to master what you already know.

See, if you take a look back to where you were 2 years ago and if you take a look at your latest video, you will see great progress - it's the same with all things. All you have to do is work and strive for perfection smile.gif I think that trying the suggestions me and Gabi spoke about - each in a musical context, will give you plenty of ideas of how to fit them into your music, so, let's see some - deal?


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enlo22
post Nov 9 2014, 04:24 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Nov 9 2014, 08:27 AM) *
Indeed! You should always be in a constant learning process - don't worry about not knowing everything though. You don't need to know everything in order to make great music, but you need to master what you already know.

See, if you take a look back to where you were 2 years ago and if you take a look at your latest video, you will see great progress - it's the same with all things. All you have to do is work and strive for perfection smile.gif I think that trying the suggestions me and Gabi spoke about - each in a musical context, will give you plenty of ideas of how to fit them into your music, so, let's see some - deal?


I will definitely try some of these things. I've been working on something new, so hopefully I can apply it there. I don't wanna force it so that it doesn't sound awkward lol, but if it calls for it i'll use it!


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Nov 9 2014, 04:57 PM
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Well, there are many tricks and concepts around chord substitution, the use of inversions, extended chords and modal interchange. Talking about this last concepts, modal interchange refers to borrow a chord from a parallel mode. For example, let's say that your song is in C major scale and you have this progression: C - Am - G - F, and you can make the repetition more interesting. You can borrow G# from C minor tonality and play this: C - Am - G# - G#. So you would get a more interesting song combining both progressions like this:

C - Am - G - F - C - Am - G# - G#


Check out this thread where modal chord progressions are explained and try to apply this concepts just using those tables where all the modes are harmonized to get the 7 diatonic chords of each mode.

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...?showtopic=6023


PS: two paralell modes are two scales that has the same root: for example A aeolian and A phrygian, or in the case of the example C ionian and C aeolian.

This post has been edited by Gabriel Leopardi: Nov 10 2014, 02:59 PM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 10 2014, 08:48 AM
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Hey Gabi - great idea here, but you forgot to add the thread smile.gif I would've added it myself, but I don't really know which one you were referring to..

QUOTE (enlo22 @ Nov 9 2014, 03:24 PM) *
I will definitely try some of these things. I've been working on something new, so hopefully I can apply it there. I don't wanna force it so that it doesn't sound awkward lol, but if it calls for it i'll use it!


Great, Marco - let us know when it's done wink.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Nov 10 2014, 02:59 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Nov 10 2014, 04:48 AM) *
Hey Gabi - great idea here, but you forgot to add the thread smile.gif I would've added it myself, but I don't really know which one you were referring to..



Fixed! Thanks Cos. wink.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 11 2014, 08:04 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Nov 10 2014, 01:59 PM) *
Fixed! Thanks Cos. wink.gif


No problem, mate wink.gif


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