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> For Those Outside The U.s. :)
klasaine
post Nov 23 2014, 06:23 PM
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Oscar Pistorius says he "thought she was an intruder".

Trayvon Martin, an (unarmed) 17 year old kid in a sweatshirt was fatally shot by a guy who was supposed to be 'watching' the neighborhood.

It can get grey and ugly rather quickly.

Jstcrsn outlines our trespassing and stand your ground laws pretty succinctly. You can't just shoot somebody who crosses your threshold or you think 'might' intend you harm ... even if you're a law enforcement officer. There's a very high profile case in Missouri as we speak.

The States are a big BIG place. Other than a consistent language, the differences between where I live and where Todd lives or fkalich lives can be fairly dramatic culturally and socially and I'm purposely not even talking about politics.

Via the news media the US can seem like a violent place but then look at Ukraine/Russia right now or Yugoslavia in the early 90s. Over here we see that and think, "are you all f'ing insane?"

It's all perspective ... or actually lack of perspective.

Slightly OT and I don't even really know what, if anything, it means but ...
I live in Los Angeles. 6 million people here (LA metro city, LA county = 10,000,000) and for all intents and purposes we border a poor country. We have the smallest police force per capita of any major city in the world. The department serves an area of 498 square miles (1,290 km2) and a population of 6,000,000 with 10,000 officers and about 2800 civilian helpers.
So far, in 2014 there have been 225 homicides. *Compare with 1993 at 1,092 homicides but only 3.4 million people.
Even during the economic crisis our violent crime rate has gone down and this is also true for (most of) the rest of the country. Violent crime in the US has dropped 32% since the mid 90s. So why do we also have the highest rates of incarceration per capita in the world? We put more folks behind bars for lesser crimes and 'most' aren't actually eligible for any kind of parole so they stay in longer.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Nov 24 2014, 02:38 AM


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Spock
post Nov 24 2014, 02:14 AM
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I love my guns and all I want to add now is a shot-gun, i'd like a tactical one.

My friend has one of these Russian made Saiga semi-automatic 12 gauges and I'd like one too - they can take down a small tree real quick.

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I stand by the motto...

I own a gun because I'm too young to die; and too old to take an ass whoop'n.

This post has been edited by Spock: Nov 24 2014, 02:15 AM
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Todd Simpson
post Nov 24 2014, 02:45 AM
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I"m with COSMIN Here smile.gif I believe strongly in the right to own firearms, per our constitution, but I also believe strongly in testing and licensing. We require people to pass a test to get a drivers license. I'd be all for requiring people to pass a test to get a gun license. Evidence of serious Mental Instability would count anyone out of gun ownership ideally.

Sadly we, as a country, are ok giving anyone guns, while we require all manner of testing just to drive a car. Seems rather backwards eh?




QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Nov 22 2014, 10:04 AM) *
Maybe - I don't live there, so I don't know how things are going actually smile.gif But I still don't think that anyone should be allowed to have a gun - that's just me though wink.gif


I've always wanted a Saiga 12!! Awesome gun smile.gif I'd like to see how it handles slugs on a range. Some slugs now are fin guided. Woohoo!! smile.gif Egad, I sound like a gun nut. Hm...

KLAISSAINE has a very good point. This country is HUGE and gets really different depending on where you are and where your from.

I"m from the "Deep South" which is almost a world unto itself. Many "Southerners" consider themselves "American by birth and Southern by the grace of God". In other words, some folks in this neck of the woods think of themselves as "Southern" first, ahead of being "American". Some feel almost as if the Federal system itself is corrupt and beneath contempt.

I"m not one of those people smile.gif I think there is great value in the Federal system and honestly feel it's allowed the country to be far more effective than it would be otherwise. But I digress.


QUOTE (Spock @ Nov 23 2014, 09:14 PM) *
I love my guns and all I want to add now is a shot-gun, i'd like a tactical one.

My friend has one of these Russian made Saiga semi-automatic 12 gauges and I'd like one too - they can take down a small tree real quick.

Attached Image



I stand by the motto...

I own a gun because I'm too young to die; and too old to take an ass whoop'n.


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klasaine
post Nov 24 2014, 03:08 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 23 2014, 06:45 PM) *
KLAISSAINE has a very good point. This country is HUGE and gets really different depending on where you are and where your from.

I"m from the "Deep South" which is almost a world unto itself. Many "Southerners" consider themselves "American by birth and Southern by the grace of God". In other words, some folks in this neck of the woods think of themselves as "Southern" first, ahead of being "American". Some feel almost as if the Federal system itself is corrupt and beneath contempt.


Exactly. For example ...
My father is solidly mid-western, a Korean war vet and has firearms in his house (in L.A.). He dutifully instructed me in their proper care, handling and usage.
I live in an area of Los Angeles that has a reputation for it's gang violence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avenues_%28gang%29
I don't own a gun. I don't feel threatened. The area, besides gang members is also home to a bunch of artists and musicians and plain old working class folks with kids.

Honestly, dealing with traffic, drive times and parking are the biggest concerns for the denizens of this town. Seriously!

Now, Todd, when you mention me you need to spell my name right - k l a s a i n e wink.gif

This post has been edited by klasaine: Nov 24 2014, 03:23 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Nov 24 2014, 06:24 AM
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My bad!!!! smile.gif k l a s a i n e


QUOTE (klasaine @ Nov 23 2014, 10:08 PM) *
Exactly. For example ...
My fa
Now, Todd, when you mention me you need to spell my name right - k l a s a i n e wink.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 24 2014, 10:14 AM
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It's funny... I'm the one carrying a Japanese katana at least two times a week on the street (in it's scabbard and into a sack and into a 'gig bag') laugh.gif


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Spock
post Nov 24 2014, 03:19 PM
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I've found that mid-western hold the basic overall values as we "American by birth, Southern by the Grace of God" people.

As far as a license goes; that pretty much is in place. Every time I have purchased a weapon a background check has been done, you have to have the serial number of that gun tied to your name and social security number, a background check is run and must be approved (it takes seconds). Also, there is a no open carry law where I live. In other words - you can't just walk around with a gun strapped to your side out in the open - like in the wild wild west.

However, after passing a background check - and after taking an 8 hour course which includes 6 hours of verbal lessons followed by a written test, and then firing range practice (which you must pass as well), you will be issued a Concealed Weapons Permit.

The purpose of this permit is for personal safety. You are allowed to carry a firearm on your person as long as it is out of site. You can not carry the weapon on any government facility, except for public restrooms (a lot of attacks on people happen there) and you can also carry at national parks. So - essentially by going through this process, you are keeping the "law abiding" citizens armed and protected - because you know a thug with bad intentions is not going to go through the processes involved.

Of course anyone (that passes a background check and can legally own a firearm) can keep a gun in their house, and transport a weapon (under certain restrictions) to places.

I just took my CWP course again because I allowed my last one to go over 90 days without getting it renewed. The course is free after you pay for it the first time - and I have enjoyed the training both times I have taken it.

I can honestly say there are only a few times in my life I wish I had had a weapon on me to feel more secure - two of those times were because of dogs, and I use to walk for miles outside for exercise until I had a couple of instances with dogs. By the way, just last week in my hometown, 3 pit-bulls were loose and went on a rampage. They killed some household pets and attacked a couple of people.

You hope you never have to use your weapon, but if you ever find yourself in a situation where it's life or death, it's always better to give yourself a fighting chance by having "the great equalizer" with you. JUST BE CAREFUL!!!! And NEVER take a gun for granted. Being careless with one will get you or someone else killed.

Funny, I just wrote a post and saw this headline as soon as I left the site.

This is why you have a firearm - and it's always better to have one close, you never know when your life will be put into a situation like this...


Trio of Armed Thugs Tied Up Man and His Wife, Then Momentarily Left Them Unattended. When They Returned, There Was a Surprise Waiting.


A man and his wife were reportedly attacked and tied up by a trio of home intruders who forced their way into the couple’s Lakewood, Washington, home on Tuesday. The horrifying incident left one of the intruders dead and the others running for their lives, according to police.

The 66-year-old wife was reportedly in the bath when three men knocked on the door. When the husband, 62, answered the door, he quickly realized he didn’t know them and tried to close the door. Unfortunately, the men — armed with a gun and knife — overpowered him and entered the home.

The thugs beat the man severely, leaving him needing stitches, and cut his wife’s hand, according to court documents obtained by the News Tribune. The men then allegedly tied up the couple and searched the house for valuable items to steal. At one point, they momentarily left the house — and it turned out to be a huge mistake.

During the brief time that the men were outside, the husband was apparently able to free himself, untie his wife and relocate to their bedroom. They locked the door and the man retrieved his firearm from a lock box and aimed it at the door.

When the suspects returned and busted through the door, the husband opened fire. Police believe the man fatally hit one of the robbers. Police later identified the deceased suspect as 19-year-old Taijon Voorhees. All three of the men ran out of the house in fear.

Police later arrested Duprea Wilson, 19, in connection to the robbery, which he reportedly told others had “gone wrong.” The suspects may have broke into the wrong house looking for drugs and money, according to investigators.

Wilson was later charged with 12 felonies, including first-degree manslaughter, robbery, kidnapping and assault.

Link

Another thing you are allowed to do under the law.

Even if it's not your life in danger, but the life of someone around you - you are protected by law to use deadly force against the perpetrators.

Another thing to remember - NEVER assume, even if the person is down, that they are not a threat. If you point your gun at anyone, you better intend to kill that person. Shoot until you can safely make sure the gunman is or can be disarmed, surrenders and drops his weapon - or is dead. Keep you weapon on him until police arrive. When police arrive, if you have someone call for you, have the person detail your description to the emergency operator - or else police could kill you.

Once police arrive, put you weapon on the ground and put your hand in the air, so they can see you are not a threat. They will handcuff you for questioning - this is protocol.

Beautifully illustrated in these video below...








And here's one showing a guy just going about his business - good thing he was prepared.




This post has been edited by Spock: Nov 24 2014, 03:00 PM
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klasaine
post Nov 24 2014, 05:00 PM
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Of course what Spock illustrates is that yes, bad shit can and does happen. You can read about it every day.
But what I want to point out to those "who live outside the US" is what I allude to in my posts, especially post #44 ...
You have to 'work hard' to find that stuff in this giant and diverse country.

I've lived in a city of 6 million (give or take) for 52 years. I don't currently and have never lived in Beverly Hills or Malibu and I've never encountered anything remotely like those stories or videos.

*In California you can't even carry a rifle, exposed and unloaded unless you are in an unincorporated, rural area. We do have some good hunting here and a few nasty critters in the hills and Sierra mtns. To obtain a license for 'concealed' carry in Cali I believe(?) one has to undergo the most rigorous testing and qualifying of any state in the union. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_California
CA also does not recognize any CC permits from any other state.
Off duty law enforcement officers, high level security detail personnel, diplomats, etc. are exempt.
The national park thing is sticky. 'National Parks' are federal and you are allowed to carry. If you bring a firearm into a nat. park in CA and the rangers and/or sheriff find out, they will keep an eye on you until you leave.

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Todd Simpson
post Nov 24 2014, 06:07 PM
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Sadly, having worked in Downtown Atlanta, for about 8 years, I saw desperate folks doing desperate stuff every day. Usually it was homeless folks in desperate circumstances robbing students ( I worked at a University) on the street. Kids would would around downtown (dorms are in the middle of the city) and get robbed for their iPhone, ipod, etc. Also sexual assault on female students in parking decks and the university library.

All of this is part and parcel to attending college smack in the middle of a large city with crime/homeless problems. I never "carried" on campus, but I"m a rather large male and was never accosted. A stern look was always enough to ward off trouble for me. But for the younger, smaller, college students, especially the girls, it can be a very unsafe place.

However, just a few miles north, outside of the city, crime rates drop almost to zero. The suburbs in the north of town are very quite and mostly safe smile.gif So K L A S A I N E is spot imho smile.gif It varies widely based on where you are/live/work. There are safe spots where you don't need a gun, just dead center of the city isn't one of them. You could probably get by with a TASER though!

Here is a link to the crime report stats on Georgia State Univ. Don't want to make it sound worse than it is smile.gif
http://safety.gsu.edu/safety-you/statistical-reports/




QUOTE (klasaine @ Nov 24 2014, 12:00 PM) *
Of course what Spock illustrates is that yes, bad shit can and does happen. You can read about it every day.
But what I want to point out to those "who live outside the US" is what I allude to in my posts, especially post #44 ...
You have to 'work hard' to find that stuff in this giant country.

I've lived in a city of 6 million (give or take) for 52 years. I don't currently and have never lived in Beverly Hills or Malibu and I've never encountered anything remotely like those stories or videos.


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klasaine
post Nov 24 2014, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 24 2014, 10:07 AM) *
Sadly, having worked in Downtown Atlanta, for about 8 years, I saw desperate folks doing desperate stuff every day. Usually it was homeless folks in desperate circumstances robbing students ( I worked at a University) on the street. Kids would would around downtown (dorms are in the middle of the city) and get robbed for their iPhone, ipod, etc. Also sexual assault on female students in parking decks and the university library.

There are safe spots where you don't need a gun, just dead center of the city isn't one of them. You could probably get by with a TASER though!


Just to illustrate how different the different parts of this country are ...
I live in the L.A. metro area (the city) in an area that is considered 'sketchy' by those who live in the 'better' parts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Park,_Los_Angeles and I don't need a weapon. It's the more rural parts to the east, north east and south east where the meth-head sociopaths all live.

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AK Rich
post Nov 24 2014, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 23 2014, 05:45 PM) *
Sadly we, as a country, are ok giving anyone guns, while we require all manner of testing just to drive a car. Seems rather backwards eh?

Sorry Todd, but this is simply not true. Not "anyone" can own a gun.

California for example:

POSSESSION

It is unlawful for anyone convicted of a felony, or who is a drug addict, present or former mental patient, ever committed for mental observation, or acquitted by reason of insanity to own or possess any firearm. People with certain misdemeanor convictions involving force or violence may not possess or own any firearm within 10 years of the conviction. A person who has been adjudged a ward of the juvenile court for certain offenses may not own or possess any firearm until age 30. A minor may not possess a handgun except with written permission or under the supervision of a parent or guardian.

Within 60 days of bringing a pistol, revolver or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person into this state, the person importing the firearm must complete and return a Department of Justice registration form or sell or transfer the firearm to a licensed dealer, or transfer the gun to a sheriff or police department. Currently, registration of rifles and shotguns is not required. However, this law may soon change.

If any person seeks to know whether they can possess or purchase a firearm in California before a transfer is made, they may request a Personal Firearms Eligibility Check conducted by office of the Department of Justice.

A minor under 16 may not possess a handgun, unless they are accompanied by their parent or guardian while participating in a legal recreation activity involving firearms or has written permission to participate in such activities. A minor under 16 may not possess live ammunition except with the written permission or under the supervision of a parent or guardian, or while going to or from an organized lawful recreational or competitive shooting activity or lawful hunting activity

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/california.aspx

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws.aspx

This post has been edited by AK Rich: Nov 24 2014, 07:24 PM
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klasaine
post Nov 24 2014, 07:26 PM
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Yes, Cali is very tough with it's gun laws.
Ironically it was the Republican state legislature under then CA gov Reagan in the late 60s and early 70s that started that trend in response to the Black Panthers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party exercising their right to carry - openly - rifles.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Nov 24 2014, 08:24 PM


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AK Rich
post Nov 24 2014, 08:23 PM
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Here is the Federal Law concerning who is prohibited from possessing a firearm.

http://www.fedcoplaw.com/html/federal_firearms_laws.html

C. PROHIBITED PERSONS

1. Indictment or Information for a Felony - This person (indicted for a felony or has a felony information filed against him) has restrictions placed on his firearms activity. He may continue to lawfully possess the firearms and ammunition he already has, but may not ship or take them across State lines and may not acquire more firearms or ammunition affecting interstate commerce: § 922 (n), 5 years.

2. Felon – This person (convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year) is not allowed to knowingly possess, ship, transport or receive any firearm or ammunition affecting interstate commerce: § 922 (g)(1), 10 years. It does not matter what sentence the felon actually received.

a. Definition: § 921(a)(20), a felony crime does not include offenses pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices; or the conviction has been expunged, set aside, pardoned, or full civil rights restored unless they expressly provide for no firearms possession.

b. After a felony conviction, the felon must rid himself of all firearms defined in § 921 (a)(3) (except antique firearms § 921 (a)(16)) - that affect interstate commerce. If later caught with a firearm or ammo, the felon is guilty of violating § 922 (g)(1).

c. Interstate Commerce, Article I, Section 8, Clause 3, U.S. Constitution, “The Congress shall have Power…To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States…” In Scarborough v. U.S. (1977), the Supreme Court held that evidence that a firearm (or ammo) previously crossed State lines is sufficient to prove interstate commerce.

d. Relief from Disabilities – If a felon did not have his felony conviction pardoned, expunged, etc., he may apply for Relief from ATF under § 925(a)(1). However, Congress has not approved funds for the ATF to conduct Relief investigations for many years except for corporations.

e. Armed Career Criminal – A person who is convicted of § 922 (g) and has three previous convictions for violent felonies and / or serious drug offenses, committed on different occasions, must be sentenced to not less than 15 years in prison, § 924 (e).

3. Fugitive – This person (who flees from one State to another State to avoid prosecution) may not knowingly possess etc. any firearm or ammunition affecting interstate commerce: § 922 (g)(2), 10 years.

4. Unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance – This person may not knowingly possess, etc. any firearm or ammunition affecting interstate commerce: § 922 (g)(3), 10 years. 27 C.F.R. 478.11.

5. Adjudicated a mental defective or committed to a mental institution – This person may not knowingly possess etc. any firearm or ammunition affecting interstate commerce: § 922 (g)(4), 10 years. § 478.11.

6. Illegal alien - This person may not knowingly possess, etc. any firearm or ammunition affecting interstate commerce: §922 (g)(5), 10 years.

a. Non-Immigrant on a Visa (tourist, student, etc) – This person may not possess etc. any firearm or ammunition affecting interstate commerce: § 922 (g)(5), 10 years, unless the alien falls under an exception or has a DOJ waiver described in § 922 (y)(2)&(3).

7. Dishonorably discharged from the armed forces – This person may not knowingly possess etc. any firearm or ammunition affecting interstate commerce: § 922 (g)(6), 10 years.

8. Renounced U.S. citizenship - This person may not knowingly possess etc. any firearm or ammunition affecting interstate commerce: § 922 (g)(7), 10 years.

9. Intimate partner under restraining order - where both parties had opportunity to present evidence prior to issuance of order – This person may not knowingly possess etc. any firearm or ammunition affecting interstate commerce: § 922 (g)(8), 10 years.

10. Convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence - This person may not knowingly possess etc. any firearm or ammunition affecting interstate commerce: § 922 (g)(9), 10 years. (Exceptions: a conviction that has been expunged, set aside, pardoned, or full civil rights restored, unless they expressly provide for no firearms possession; a conviction which did not have as an element the use or attempted use of force, 921 (a)(33)(A)).

11. Juvenile and Handgun –This person (under 18 years of age) may not knowingly possess a handgun or handgun only ammo: § 922 (x)(2), 1 year. Exceptions: he has the prior written consent of his parent or guardian for use in employment, in ranching, farming, target practice, hunting, or a course in the safe and lawful use of a HG; the juvenile is a member of the Armed Forces or National Guard; or as protection during a home invasion.
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Todd Simpson
post Nov 24 2014, 09:37 PM
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You are quite correct of course and I was far too loose with my words smile.gif Felons CAN"T own guns here. I should have been more precision and said "Nearly Anyone" with a clean record.

We have somewhere around 300 MILLION PLUS guns in ownership in the U.S. That doesn't include the illegal guns which are estimated near the same number. Thats enough for every Man, Woman and Child to have 2 guns each. My point was simply that we, as a culture, are simply saturated with firearms. I'm not suggesting we "clamp down" on folks who legally own guns. Just pointing out that our culture is one of rampant gun ownership (including myself of course) to the point where access to firearms sometimes turns in to a huge problem such as the SANDY HOOK shootings which of course is TROLL BAIT so please nobody bite down! To Wit!
Attached Image

IN GERMANY, they have pretty restrictive gun laws. I was talking to CHRISTIAN when he visited from Germany and he was telling me how hard it was to get/keep weapons and how many laws/safety procedures were involved. We can look to their numbers as well.

Attached Image

OF COURSE we are very different in MANY WAYS from Europeans/Germans!!! Very different history/culture/etc. Let's just take that as a given smile.gif

Still, we can look to the German approach and perhaps find things that we could adopt as a culture, as a people, that could help get our "Gun Homicide" numbers to look more like theirs, per capita, and less like ours smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (AK Rich @ Nov 24 2014, 02:19 PM) *
Sorry Todd, but this is simply not true. Not "anyone" can own a gun.

California for example:

POSSESSION

It is unlawful for anyone convicted of a felony, or who is a drug addict, present or former mental patient, ever committed for mental observation, or acquitted by reason of insanity to own or possess any firearm. People with certain misdemeanor convictions involving force or violence may not possess or own any firearm within 10 years of the conviction. A person who has been adjudged a ward of the juvenile court for certain offenses may not own or possess any firearm until age 30. A minor may not possess a handgun except with written permission or under the supervision of a parent or guardian.

Within 60 days of bringing a pistol, revolver or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person into this state, the person importing the firearm must complete and return a Department of Justice registration form or sell or transfer the firearm to a licensed dealer, or transfer the gun to a sheriff or police department. Currently, registration of rifles and shotguns is not required. However, this law may soon change.

If any person seeks to know whether they can possess or purchase a firearm in California before a transfer is made, they may request a Personal Firearms Eligibility Check conducted by office of the Department of Justice.

A minor under 16 may not possess a handgun, unless they are accompanied by their parent or guardian while participating in a legal recreation activity involving firearms or has written permission to participate in such activities. A minor under 16 may not possess live ammunition except with the written permission or under the supervision of a parent or guardian, or while going to or from an organized lawful recreational or competitive shooting activity or lawful hunting activity

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/california.aspx

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws.aspx


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Nov 24 2014, 09:47 PM


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AK Rich
post Nov 24 2014, 11:34 PM
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Thanks Todd, While it is true that there is a problem with gun violence in this country, and that testing and registration sounds like a good idea to help reduce it, there are other things to consider here. History has shown us that everywhere there has been gun registration, it has ALWAYS resulted in at least some confiscation, even here in the states. And in many examples, and the most extreme circumstances of course, the end result has been genocide or the elimination of dissidents.
I am not trying to say that this is the end game for us here in the states by those that push for these kinds of registry's. Only that the possibility should not be ignored since there is no question that there are some people in, and out of government that would love to see the populace completely disarmed.
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Todd Simpson
post Nov 25 2014, 12:14 AM
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EGAD!! As a libertarian, the idea of "Disarming The Populace" MAKES ME CRINGE!! But I'm ok with trying to put sensible rules/laws/procedures in place smile.gif The line between sensible and totalitarian can be fuzzy for sure once politics gets involved, but it seems like a conversation that we just can't avoid anymore. I'm all for Guns and Gun ownership. But I'm also for personal responsibility and social justice. It's a tough line to walk sometimes smile.gif

Todd




QUOTE (AK Rich @ Nov 24 2014, 06:34 PM) *
Thanks Todd, While it is true that there is a problem with gun violence in this country, and that testing and registration sounds like a good idea to help reduce it, there are other things to consider here. History has shown us that everywhere there has been gun registration, it has ALWAYS resulted in at least some confiscation, even here in the states. And in many examples, and the most extreme circumstances of course, the end result has been genocide or the elimination of dissidents.
I am not trying to say that this is the end game for us here in the states by those that push for these kinds of registry's. Only that the possibility should not be ignored since there is no question that there are some people in, and out of government that would love to see the populace completely disarmed.


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Spock
post Nov 25 2014, 01:01 AM
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Arcanist
post Nov 26 2014, 08:48 PM
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Interesting thread, thanks for the insights. Arm-availability in the US is still odd to most Europeans - but it's always important to hear the pros and cons and the average citizens experiences instead of overstated images conveyed by media. As it is, the reputation of the USA is at it's lowest point in my lifetime in my country. Arms and incidents like recently in Ferguson are big part of that, not least due to the clicheed media coverage
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jstcrsn
post Nov 27 2014, 04:46 PM
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QUOTE (Arcanist @ Nov 26 2014, 08:48 PM) *
Interesting thread, thanks for the insights. Arm-availability in the US is still odd to most Europeans - but it's always important to hear the pros and cons and the average citizens experiences instead of overstated images conveyed by media. As it is, the reputation of the USA is at it's lowest point in my lifetime in my country. Arms and incidents like recently in Ferguson are big part of that, not least due to the clicheed media coverage

Probably just as foreign to Americans as eating all the Entrails/organs from cows and sheep biggrin.gif
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AdamB
post Nov 28 2014, 11:38 AM
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QUOTE
Probably just as foreign to Americans as eating all the Entrails/organs from cows and sheep


You don't eat sausage in America?
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