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> For Those Outside The U.s. :)
Ben Higgins
post Nov 28 2014, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE (AdamB @ Nov 28 2014, 11:38 AM) *
You don't eat sausage in America?


Sausages are like our savoury version of the Twinkie ! laugh.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Nov 28 2014, 11:58 PM
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Sadly, incidents like that one seem to be showing up on the news far too frequently along with incidents where someone goes off and shoots up a school, or public place. The tension between the pro gun/anti gun lobbies here are intense but mostly one sided as the pro gun lobby has wads of money smile.gif So it's unlikely we will see much in the way of national reforms which I personally think is a missed chance to stop a few crazies from getting guns or being in the same home with someone else guns. The Mental Illness issue is one that does concern me and many folks here. If there was a requirement to pass a psychological exam before purchasing a weapon, I'd be happy to take it smile.gif but that's not a majority view smile.gif

QUOTE (Arcanist @ Nov 26 2014, 03:48 PM) *
Interesting thread, thanks for the insights. Arm-availability in the US is still odd to most Europeans - but it's always important to hear the pros and cons and the average citizens experiences instead of overstated images conveyed by media. As it is, the reputation of the USA is at it's lowest point in my lifetime in my country. Arms and incidents like recently in Ferguson are big part of that, not least due to the clicheed media coverage


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Nov 28 2014, 11:58 PM


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jstcrsn
post Nov 29 2014, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 28 2014, 11:58 PM) *
Sadly, incidents like that one seem to be showing up on the news far too frequently along with incidents where someone goes off and shoots up a school, or public place. The tension between the pro gun/anti gun lobbies here are intense but mostly one sided as the pro gun lobby has wads of money smile.gif So it's unlikely we will see much in the way of national reforms which I personally think is a missed chance to stop a few crazies from getting guns or being in the same home with someone else guns. The Mental Illness issue is one that does concern me and many folks here. If there was a requirement to pass a psychological exam before purchasing a weapon, I'd be happy to take it smile.gif but that's not a majority view smile.gif

more control , spoken like a true libertarian tongue.gif
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jstcrsn
post Nov 29 2014, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE (Arcanist @ Nov 26 2014, 08:48 PM) *
Arms and incidents like recently in Ferguson are big part of that, not least due to the clicheed media coverage

and it doesn't help when our president says things like "he is disappointed in the outcome" (stirring up tension) rather than as a Lawyer knowing a grand jury weighed the evidence and found there wasn't enough evidence to pursue charges , and standing behind the rule of law and encouraging its citizens to do so.
I don't know the facts
Obama doesn't know the facts(and if he does, he should spend his time on the countries big problems)
We should trust the system . Does this mean sometimes there will be mistakes, yes, and we should do what we can to right those. But this mob rules mentality , that was helped by his remarks ,does nothing but make the situation worse and almost convinces me of the need to carry, which I do, and train, which I do. The average assailant can travel 20 feet in 1.7 seconds and this is how I train . that i can evaluate then threat , pull my firearm and have fired and hit my desired target in that 1.7 seconds.

in response to Cosmin training with your sword ( you might be mad at me not calling by its proper name). I to spend time training to be fast and efficient while keeping me and any by standers safe. Knowing my firearm intimately, sound bad but you know what I mean wink.gif

and as for us eating sausage , it is not that big to most here and if they find out how it is made , they usually get sick. I think it is safe to safe just about never would you see entrails/organs in the complete state as a main dish !

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Nov 29 2014, 05:50 PM
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Ben Higgins
post Nov 29 2014, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Nov 29 2014, 05:17 PM) *
more control , spoken like a true libertarian tongue.gif


You two.. get a room wink.gif

I struggle to see anything negative in what T-Master said though ?


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jstcrsn
post Nov 29 2014, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Nov 29 2014, 06:04 PM) *
You two.. get a room wink.gif

I struggle to see anything negative in what T-Master said though ?

there is nothing wrong with what he said , but more control is the complete opposite of libertarian theology http://www.lp.org/platform . I am struggling to see ,If he is a self proclaimed libertarian , which part he stands for. Whilst all of his post in these types of threads talk about more control, more taxes , the government controlling your health care , etc. WE will never get to bottom of who is right or wrong on these issues, since every side has there evidence to back there position up. As any friend of yours and mine would do, we ribb our friends of their inconsistencies of what they say. Is this not true ?
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Ben Higgins
post Nov 29 2014, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Nov 29 2014, 06:47 PM) *
there is nothing wrong with what he said , but more control is the complete opposite of libertarian theology http://www.lp.org/platform . I am struggling to see ,If he is a self proclaimed libertarian


You're concentrating on the labels though, that stuff isn't as important as the message. Don't make me reach for my pocket Bruce Lee.. I will... I mean it.....

Ok, I found him - you asked for it ! wink.gif 1.11



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jstcrsn
post Nov 29 2014, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Nov 29 2014, 06:52 PM) *
You're concentrating on the labels though, that stuff isn't as important as the message. Don't make me reach for my pocket Bruce Lee.. I will... I mean it.....

Ok, I found him - you asked for it ! wink.gif 1.11

maybe that's my problem, I don't have a pocket Bruce Lee
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Todd Simpson
post Nov 30 2014, 03:00 AM
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Sadly, being a "libertarian", isn't as simple as going strictly by the F.A.Q or party platform. Part of the very core idea of LIbertarian ideology is that we are free to think and do as we wish, as individuals. We don't all "Tow the party line" but we all generally paddle in the same direction.


To Wit.... Here is an article where a like minded Civil Libertarian suggest that we give the idea of gun control a fresh look.


http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archiv...-chance/266336/



QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Nov 29 2014, 01:47 PM) *
there is nothing wrong with what he said , but more control is the complete opposite of libertarian theology http://www.lp.org/platform . I am struggling to see ,If he is a self proclaimed libertarian , which part he stands for. Whilst all of his post in these types of threads talk about more control, more taxes , the government controlling your health care , etc. WE will never get to bottom of who is right or wrong on these issues, since every side has there evidence to back there position up. As any friend of yours and mine would do, we ribb our friends of their inconsistencies of what they say. Is this not true ?


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Nov 30 2014, 03:03 AM


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AK Rich
post Dec 5 2014, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 28 2014, 02:58 PM) *
The tension between the pro gun/anti gun lobbies here are intense but mostly one sided as the pro gun lobby has wads of money smile.gif

I wouldn't say it is one sided at all looking at the millions of dollars Bloomberg, Gates, Ballmer, Seattle venture capitalist Nick Hanauer and Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen. and others spent trying to influence elections in more than 12 states last month. Then there is the majority of national news outlets that get out the anti gun message for free. The NRA-ILA was actually outspent in many states in the run up to the midterms.
And it is important to note that the money the NRA-ILA spends comes largely from it's members such as myself (Life Member smile.gif ) and most likely some of your neighbors. As well as businesses that donate a portion of their profits.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politic...tates/19785161/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-p...on-gun-control/

This post has been edited by AK Rich: Dec 5 2014, 07:32 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 5 2014, 10:53 PM
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I'd agree with you all the way the lefty billionaires impact election smile.gif I was talking about the gun lobby in particular the NRA (also funded by billionaires as well as regular folks if we are honest about it) and how one sided the push against gun control is.

Again, I SUPPORT GUN OWNERSHIP AND I OWN A GUN. smile.gif

However, I do not support people who are schizophrenic being able to arm themselves. I know it's going to be a very hard road trying to find the proper balance of liberty vs legislation, but that's what politics is for smile.gif

Just to add something for THOSE OUTSIDE THE U.S.

*This is a magazine rack at my local Grocery Store in Georgia
Attached Image

QUOTE (AK Rich @ Dec 5 2014, 02:21 PM) *
I wouldn't say it is one sided at all looking at the millions of dollars Bloomberg, Gates, Ballmer, Seattle venture capitalist Nick Hanauer and Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen. and others spent trying to influence elections in more than 12 states last month. Then there is the majority of national news outlets that get out the anti gun message for free. The NRA-ILA was actually outspent in many states in the run up to the midterms.
And it is important to note that the money the NRA-ILA spends comes largely from it's members such as myself (Life Member smile.gif ) and most likely some of your neighbors. As well as businesses that donate a portion of their profits.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politic...tates/19785161/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-p...on-gun-control/


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Ben Higgins
post Dec 6 2014, 10:41 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 5 2014, 10:53 PM) *
Again, I SUPPORT GUN OWNERSHIP AND I OWN A GUN. smile.gif

However, I do not support people who are schizophrenic being able to arm themselves. I know it's going to be a very hard road trying to find the proper balance of liberty vs legislation, but that's what politics is for smile.gif

Just to add something for THOSE OUTSIDE THE U.S.

*This is a magazine rack at my local Grocery Store in Georgia
Attached Image


Makes perfect sense, how can anyone argue against that ?

A lot of the gun culture, and some of those magazines, not all, cater to paranoia.


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AK Rich
post Dec 6 2014, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Dec 6 2014, 01:41 AM) *
A lot of the gun culture, and some of those magazines, not all, cater to paranoia.

Maybe so. But the same can be said about some on the other side of the issue that feel that the only way to stop things like school shootings , is to get rid of all the gun rights for citizens. And in my opinion, paranoia about that is reasonable.


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 6 2014, 08:06 PM
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Getting rid of ALL gun rights for citizens is clearly just out of the question unless we remove the second ammnd to the Constitution. So that seems a bit of a straw man yeah? What I"m talking about is limiting gun rights for people diagnosed with serious mental illness.

Arming those with documented mental problems is something that would seem to be a clear "bad idea" however, as RICH and CRSN are certain to point out, there are wads of folks (honestly those leaning right thought a few lefties as well) here that would oppose that even those in my own party (The libertarians).

So sadly, it's not likely to happen. What is likely to happen is continuation of the insanity we keep seeing on the news almost weekly. Some "nut bag" goes postal and shoots folks that he doesn't even know. Sometimes, shoots kids. I personally think this is a bad thing. I'd support those people getting the help they deserve, and support them not having access to guns and support the idea of requiring gun owners who live with them to keep their guns locked up and hopefully away from them.

But, as common sense as this sounds, it gets a HUGE negative reaction from gun folks here in the states.





QUOTE (AK Rich @ Dec 6 2014, 02:11 PM) *
Maybe so. But the same can be said about some on the other side of the issue that feel that the only way to stop things like school shootings , is to get rid of all the gun rights for citizens. And in my opinion, paranoia about that is reasonable.


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jstcrsn
post Dec 6 2014, 09:11 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 6 2014, 08:06 PM) *
Getting rid of ALL gun rights for citizens is clearly just out of the question unless we remove the second ammnd to the Constitution. So that seems a bit of a straw man yeah? What I"m talking about is limiting gun rights for people diagnosed with serious mental illness.

Arming those with documented mental problems is something that would seem to be a clear "bad idea" however, as RICH and CRSN are certain to point out, there are wads of folks (honestly those leaning right thought a few lefties as well) here that would oppose that even those in my own party (The libertarians).

So sadly, it's not likely to happen. What is likely to happen is continuation of the insanity we keep seeing on the news almost weekly. Some "nut bag" goes postal and shoots folks that he doesn't even know. Sometimes, shoots kids. I personally think this is a bad thing. I'd support those people getting the help they deserve, and support them not having access to guns and support the idea of requiring gun owners who live with them to keep their guns locked up and hopefully away from them.

But, as common sense as this sounds, it gets a HUGE negative reaction from gun folks here in the states.

you are saying things that are flat out not true
In rich's post # 53 there is a law about not letting those with known mental illnesses not possessing firearms of which I am fully in agreement with.but with our Laws , you are innocent until proven guilty .
You need to stop putting words in my mouth I did not say and don't think
There are numerous incidents were you fudged the Truth ( in this thread alone)
and saying Negatives that I did not say (which are impossible to disprove) , In my opinion, can easily mislead someone, who does not know me,and give them a negative impression of were I truly stand . A proven tactic of the Left is to smear and I have to say you are wondering pretty close to that cilff

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Ben Higgins
post Dec 7 2014, 10:15 AM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Dec 6 2014, 09:11 PM) *
you are saying things that are flat out not true
In rich's post # 53 there is a law about not letting those with known mental illnesses not possessing firearms of which I am fully in agreement with.but with our Laws , you are innocent until proven guilty .
You need to stop putting words in my mouth I did not say and don't think
There are numerous incidents were you fudged the Truth ( in this thread alone)
and saying Negatives that I did not say (which are impossible to disprove) , In my opinion, can easily mislead someone, who does not know me,and give them a negative impression of were I truly stand . A proven tactic of the Left is to smear and I have to say you are wondering pretty close to that cilff


I think you secretly enjoy the conflict crsn as you are always able to find it in these threads wink.gif

Go on, admit.. you LOVE the drama ! biggrin.gif


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jstcrsn
post Dec 7 2014, 12:37 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Dec 7 2014, 10:15 AM) *
I think you secretly enjoy the conflict crsn as you are always able to find it in these threads wink.gif

Go on, admit.. you LOVE the drama ! biggrin.gif

duh huh.gif , but what was I supposed to do , he called me out by name
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Ben Higgins
post Dec 7 2014, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Dec 7 2014, 12:37 PM) *
duh huh.gif


Is that a 'Duh' as in "Well, obviously, dumbass" ? If so, that's a bit naughty. laugh.gif

I'm taking my ball and going home !! tongue.gif


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jstcrsn
post Dec 7 2014, 02:47 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Dec 7 2014, 02:22 PM) *
I'm taking my ball and going home !! tongue.gif

fine, take your ball, I didn't want to play anyway

and I am going to tell my mom

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fkalich
post Dec 7 2014, 02:50 PM
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QUOTE (AdamB @ Nov 22 2014, 09:40 AM) *
School shootings in the USA go back quite a way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_schoo...e_United_States


Read that list item by item, say go to the 50's and 60's and read each item. Then go to recent times and do the same. It should be clear to you that what we see today was rare to non-existent if you go back 40 or 50 years. Shootings occurred, but not mass shootings. They were personal disputes for the most part, or associated in committing some crime. not loony's deciding to take out as many random people as they do now, for no reason other than insanity.

The problem is not guns, we have always had guns. The problem is too much fantasy land entertainment (electronic media) in modern culture (including what we call the "news").

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