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> Sneak Peak...
What do you think?
how does it sound?
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Kristofer Dahl
post Nov 19 2014, 04:48 PM
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I have been working on an instrumental tune for waaay too long (8 months I think?!) - and I am almost finished... (Ah that famous 'almost' wink.gif )

I am currently stuck trying to make the mix work - and as usual I am testing a million new mixing techniques and [as usual, again] - I am kinda confused on how this song actually sounds..!

So if you would like to try it with your monitors / ears you would do me a big favor.

Does anything stick out as weird? What part?

Thanks!

Attached File  oh_brother_nov19_sneak_peak.mp3 ( 3.78MB ) Number of downloads: 114


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AK Rich
post Nov 19 2014, 06:30 PM
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Well, I loved the scary intro and everything else up until about 1:04. At that point it got a bit confusing to my ears with the ambient background noises? effects? I am listening with some non studio quality headphones. As for the playing and the general ideas, I thought it was great. I have always enjoyed your outside the box style and approaches man. smile.gif
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Bogdan Radovic
post Nov 19 2014, 06:44 PM
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On a first listen I have got similar impression as AK Rich. Part at 1:04 appears to have a loud backing track instruments with a lead guitar in the background making it slightly hard to "focus on it".

Maybe this was the desired effect though for that section? smile.gif

I'm noticing a tendency for lead guitar (and track in general) to sound very cool on high volume but somehow lead track becomes "overshadowed" by piano clarity on lower volume, even in the intro section up to 1:03 mark.

Very cool track BTW - can't wait to hear the final version smile.gif


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Amir Razmara
post Nov 19 2014, 07:38 PM
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At 18.76 there is a guitar/string noise that does not belong in there. after 1:04 all the bendy notes sound good the slides are a bit weak in effect it may be that the lower strings need to be picked up more or may be your strings are really smooth as apposed to grainy and there for the slides dont get that kkkrrrrrrr sound. But I Love this track all together and was looking forward to hear it one of these days smile.gif

This post has been edited by Amir Razmara: Nov 19 2014, 07:40 PM
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Kristofer Dahl
post Nov 19 2014, 10:52 PM
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This:

QUOTE (AK Rich @ Nov 19 2014, 07:30 PM) *
Well, I loved the scary intro and everything else up until about 1:04. At that point it got a bit confusing to my ears with the ambient background noises? effects? I am listening with some non studio quality headphones. As for the playing and the general ideas, I thought it was great. I have always enjoyed your outside the box style and approaches man. smile.gif


and:

QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Nov 19 2014, 07:44 PM) *
On a first listen I have got similar impression as AK Rich. Part at 1:04 appears to have a loud backing track instruments with a lead guitar in the background making it slightly hard to "focus on it".

Maybe this was the desired effect though for that section? smile.gif

I'm noticing a tendency for lead guitar (and track in general) to sound very cool on high volume but somehow lead track becomes "overshadowed" by piano clarity on lower volume, even in the intro section up to 1:03 mark.

Very cool track BTW - can't wait to hear the final version smile.gif


Both of these comments indicate a problem with the lead guitar cutting through, I might have warmed it up too much. I will give it a go with fresh ears tomorrow, and try adding some treble and possibly level.

Thanks a million for the comments, it's so easy to be blinded when you spend time with your own mix...

QUOTE (Amir Razmara @ Nov 19 2014, 08:38 PM) *
after 1:04 all the bendy notes sound good the slides are a bit weak in effect it may be that the lower strings need to be picked up more or may be your strings are really smooth as apposed to grainy and there for the slides dont get that kkkrrrrrrr sound. But I Love this track all together and was looking forward to hear it one of these days smile.gif


Thanks Amir! With slides you mean the faster passages? I agree thy don't cut through very well, I will do some experiments with them.

QUOTE (Amir Razmara @ Nov 19 2014, 08:38 PM) *
At 18.76 there is a guitar/string noise that does not belong in there.


Where is this?


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klasaine
post Nov 20 2014, 12:07 AM
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I like it overall.

I would put some more 'room' (reverb/delay) on the lead part before the big orchestration comes in and maybe pull it back slightly in the mix.
When the big orchestration comes in dry up the lead guitar and push it up in the mix.

*None of the little guitar type string/fret/finger bother me at all. In fact, it makes it sound like it's 'real'. Keep 'em in there!

This post has been edited by klasaine: Nov 20 2014, 12:09 AM


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Amir Razmara
post Nov 20 2014, 04:52 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Nov 19 2014, 09:52 PM) *
Thanks Amir! With slides you mean the faster passages? I agree thy don't cut through very well, I will do some experiments with them.



Where is this?


That noise is on the 3rd beat of bar 4. If you count 4 bars from where the piano starts you'll hear it.

I was pointing to the slide right before the fast shred run.


This post has been edited by Amir Razmara: Nov 20 2014, 04:53 AM
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Kristofer Dahl
post Nov 20 2014, 02:47 PM
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Big thanks for helping me out, your feedback is very appreciated! smile.gif

QUOTE (klasaine @ Nov 20 2014, 01:07 AM) *
I would put some more 'room' (reverb/delay) on the lead part before the big orchestration comes in and maybe pull it back slightly in the mix.
When the big orchestration comes in dry up the lead guitar and push it up in the mix.


Excellent advice Ken, I did exactly as you said.

QUOTE (Amir Razmara @ Nov 20 2014, 05:52 AM) *
That noise is on the 3rd beat of bar 4. If you count 4 bars from where the piano starts you'll hear it.

I was pointing to the slide right before the fast shred run.

Ok sorry I get it now. With the new mix I think the guitar cuts through a bit more, and hopefully should improve this a bit. The noise you heard is unfortunately further amplified, but I'd prefer not go in and mess with the guitar audio file.

@ Bogdan and AK - Big thanks again, I have now increased presence/treble of lead guitar and I think there is a difference - hopefully to the better.

Here is the full song version. Please let me know if you react on anything here!

Attached File  oh_brother_nov20.mp3 ( 8.03MB ) Number of downloads: 76


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AK Rich
post Nov 20 2014, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Nov 20 2014, 05:47 AM) *
@ Bogdan and AK - Big thanks again, I have now increased presence/treble of lead guitar and I think there is a difference - hopefully to the better.

Here is the full song version. Please let me know if you react on anything here!

No sweat Kris, glad to help. Yeah I think that cleaned up pretty well. As for the rest of it, I love the little swinging section you added starting at 1:40 and also that run between 2:41 and 2:57 is like a rollercoaster ride. I really dig these kinds of runs. smile.gif Top notch playing man!
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Amir Razmara
post Nov 20 2014, 07:47 PM
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I just finished talking to Maestro "The GuitarTube"...he is taking all the credits for writing this song and I gave my most sincere Congratulations for all of his devotion of a dedication during the last 8 months. He is very happy now biggrin.gif

Seriously...I hear the improvement in this version....the lead guitar comes through stronger now....so what do you guys think?
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Bogdan Radovic
post Nov 21 2014, 02:09 AM
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The new version sounds as improvement on my speakers in terms of cutting through.

Factor to consider: I'm listening to it on pretty low volume at the moment, I'll give it another listen on higher volume too.

Impressions (writing them as I listen to the track):

* Intro section up to 1:03 - no specific issues with the mix
* Verse 1:30 - no specific issues with the mix
* Shuffle section - no specific issues with the mix
* Outro (2:28) - overpowering backing instruments with similar guitar tone/frequencies. I get slight impression that guitar loses focus (and drops in the mix) in this section due to strings in the backing. It might be that strings are just too loud as guitar seems to cut through.


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Kristofer Dahl
post Nov 23 2014, 03:37 PM
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Thanks again guys, I have added your names in the credits for this song's video. I am preparing a post about it to share some of my new insights!


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SirJamsalot
post Nov 27 2014, 01:53 AM
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Ears are amazing in their ability to focus things out! Just last week I was working on a mix, thought i had it decent, then the next day I listened to it as a whole, and something obviously wrong stared me in the face. A bouncy bass-string was flubbing a note for a whole 4 bars!

I've read a lot of articles on mixing, and the constant theme I get is that you have to give your ears rest between actual mixing and listening. The issue is that during mixing, your ears focus on individual parts/tracks, and as such, you don't pay attention to the other tracks as closely - they become ignored background noise. Once you're in that mode of listening, your ears continue being drawn to the particulars even when trying to listen to the song as a whole.

I'm told you have to let it rest (a day?) and come back with fresh ears and listen "generally" for the obvious overall mix, first thing so you don't stick your ears into fine-tune mode. Once you start tweaking things - you're ears are in focus mode and you're ruined (at least I am) in terms of listening to the sound as a whole from that point on.

I'm learning mixing and it is nothing short of challenging!

This post has been edited by SirJamsalot: Nov 27 2014, 01:54 AM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Nov 27 2014, 09:47 AM
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Very good points Sir!

QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Nov 27 2014, 01:53 AM) *
I've read a lot of articles on mixing, and the constant theme I get is that you have to give your ears rest between actual mixing and listening.

This is a key point, however my problem is that I am trying to cut down on the production times (which I feel are excessive).

Even though I'll often do one-man-band stuff and not need to wait for anyone else to deliver, a song will take me 4-5 months absolute minimum, usually much longer. As for the mixing I could go on forever.

This is why it can be so useful to get someone else's opinion, or even let someone else do the final tweaks (aka send your track in for mastering).

Btw here is the version I ended up with, credits here.


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Kristofer Dahl
post Jan 4 2015, 03:39 PM
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I listened back to this one now, and I think the problem is that it's completely "overmixed". With 100 tracks and several hundreds of inserts I don't feel like touching this one anymore though laugh.gif but I think this high resolution version somehow sounds substantially better, maybe because there so many effects added?

https://soundcloud.com/kristoferdahl/oh-brother

Anyhow I have learned many lessons while working on this tune, and it's worth its' weight in gold for me! (that's a Swedish expression btw, not sure it translates?! biggrin.gif )


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Darius Wave
post Jan 4 2015, 09:13 PM
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I get what You mean...we say that in Poland as well smile.gif Not sure if the english translation is that straight" Weight in gold"...but probably it would have sense since Gary Moore sang "...for my weight in gold" in "Walking by Myself" chorus smile.gif


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