Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Question On Neoclassical Technique
fkalich
post Nov 21 2014, 08:40 PM
Post #1


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.728
Joined: 12-February 07
From: People's Republic of Lawrence Kansas
Member No.: 1.189



I have a question about what is considered correct in fingering. I define correct as the way most experienced teachers would call correct. To illustrate this look at this lesson Power Metal Rhythm in E minor, particularly in the middle with the runs up and down the neck on the 5th string. I suspect that this is an example of what would be considered "incorrect" where Carlos lets his index finger fly, but I am not sure.

I am not picking on Carlos here. He has not been around for awhile, and he really did some very nice lessons, very nice often simple compositions. Actually he is one of my all time favorites. I think Gabriel knows him. But he is a good example to illustrate the topic of my question as he does have that flying iindex finger on neoclassical licks. My question is, do most teachers tell you to keep that finger planted when you to the back and forth notes with the smaller fingers?

I have serious difficulty keeping my index finger planted when I get about half way up the neck and I am playing repetitive "index finger - pinky - middle finger - pinky" patterns. I think I may even have to physical limitation there with a tendon that makes it very difficult to play without lifting my index finger as Carlos does. Or perhaps I just need to work harder to stretch my muscles out.

Thoughts?

This post has been edited by fkalich: Nov 21 2014, 08:51 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ibanezgrg170dx
post Nov 21 2014, 09:11 PM
Post #2


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 19-November 14
Member No.: 20.433



A good warm up can take up to 2 hours, I warm up by walking the 3d and 4th fingers all over the neck using triplets and compound figures across all strings, normally 2nps over the bottom of the neck. I learnt this from a Mike Batio/Doug Marks video. Its the best finger independence warm up, if your not warmed up and you have normal sized hands then your tendons will naturally pull other fingers. As long as it sounds correct, the general attack/tonality of the instrument has been accessed correctly then maybe its not worth worrying about unwanted finger movement.

This post has been edited by ibanezgrg170dx: Nov 21 2014, 09:13 PM
Attached image(s)
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kristofer Dahl
post Nov 21 2014, 11:48 PM
Post #3


GMC Founder & Rocker
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.089
Joined: 15-August 05
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (fkalich @ Nov 21 2014, 08:40 PM) *
I am not picking on Carlos here. He has not been around for awhile, and he really did some very nice lessons, very nice often simple compositions. Actually he is one of my all time favorites. I think Gabriel knows him. But he is a good example to illustrate the topic of my question as he does have that flying iindex finger on neoclassical licks. My question is, do most teachers tell you to keep that finger planted when you to the back and forth notes with the smaller fingers?


If I get you right you are referring to the pinky being far from the fretboad when it's not playing?

I tend to agree with ibanezgrg170dx (welcome to GMC btw biggrin.gif ) - in the sense that if it sounds and feels ok to you, then there is no problem.

However, this could also be a symptom of unnecessary hand tension. If you play Carlos' pattern at a super slow tempo (way below your comfort speed) and think consciously about not tensing up, then your pinky should feel no need to fly away.

When you have slowed down to the point that you can completely relax (and actually have time to think about it!) - then you know conditions are ideal to develop a flexible and efficient technique.

And contrary to common belief, you will actually increase your bpm - and most importantly perceived speed - much quicker this way. So in case anyone was wondering, there is absolutely no need/reason to push speed!

Btw good to see you here Fkalich laugh.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fkalich
post Nov 22 2014, 12:15 PM
Post #4


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.728
Joined: 12-February 07
From: People's Republic of Lawrence Kansas
Member No.: 1.189



Well you reinforce what I have been thinking, I need to keep that in mind, focus on exactly what you are saying, it is easy to lose focus and then your progress is not great.

I was not thinking about the pinky though, I was thinking of the index finger. You watch some guys and they will keep the index finger planted on the fingerboard when they are playing repetitive riffs like "index finger - pinky - middle finger - pinky - index finger - pinky - middle finger - pinky".

Thanks for advice. I honestly think your site is right up there with the Microwave oven and scoopable kitty litter as one of the most useful things to come out in the past 50 years. I eventually came up with a select 150 lessons that I work on, and work on, and work on. There is a huge variety in my 150 lessons. But eventually I have to sign up again and look at some newer stuff. I really liked those 30 shredders and 40 power metal band freebees that you offered awhile back, I work on those as well.


QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Nov 21 2014, 05:48 PM) *
If I get you right you are referring to the pinky being far from the fretboad when it's not playing?

I tend to agree with ibanezgrg170dx (welcome to GMC btw biggrin.gif ) - in the sense that if it sounds and feels ok to you, then there is no problem.

However, this could also be a symptom of unnecessary hand tension. If you play Carlos' pattern at a super slow tempo (way below your comfort speed) and think consciously about not tensing up, then your pinky should feel no need to fly away.

When you have slowed down to the point that you can completely relax (and actually have time to think about it!) - then you know conditions are ideal to develop a flexible and efficient technique.

And contrary to common belief, you will actually increase your bpm - and most importantly perceived speed - much quicker this way. So in case anyone was wondering, there is absolutely no need/reason to push speed!

Btw good to see you here Fkalich laugh.gif

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Nov 23 2014, 01:14 PM
Post #5


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



Hey matey smile.gif I agree with Kris in respect to not rushing things when it comes down to speed smile.gif If you can show us a little video of yourself playing your favorite licks and phrases out of the GMC lessons that you usually practice, I am 100% sure that we can help out even more in trms of developing technique, healthy habits and pushing creativity smile.gif

There are two situations here - the one in which you want to separate notes as well as possible and you need to lift that index finger - also taking into acount that you are playing on different strings and the one in which you are playing the sort of pattern you spoke about on one string only - that's when the index has to stay put, in order to offer support, especially if you play legato smile.gif

The more you show us, the better we will be able to help out wink.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gabriel Leopardi
post Nov 26 2014, 06:31 AM
Post #6


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 28.436
Joined: 3-March 07
From: Argentina
Member No.: 1.289



Hehehe it’s cool to find this thread talking about my old friend Carlos. Some weeks ago we shared stage because his band opened for Cirse on one of the gigs. Check out his band!



About the topic, I think that you mean that Carlos is not keeping his index finger always on the fret or at least close. He moves it and that’s what most of us recommend. If you ask me, I would say that I prefer to economize movements the more than I can in order to be able to play fast and avoid limitations that can be easily avoided. This way of playing works for Carlos at this speed and he must feel comfortable playing it, but I don’t think that he will be able to play the following lesson in this way:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...me-neo-classic/

Don’t you think so? By the way, the question is, do you want to play that fast?

As Cosmin said, it would be very helpful for us to see you playing this stuff to check if this can affect in a bad way your playing.


--------------------
My lessons

Do you need a Guitar Plan?
Join Gab's Army

Check my band:Cirse
Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud

Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 27th March 2017 - 07:52 AM