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> Kris-must Charm :: Audio Collaboration, GMC students and instructor collab
Jim S.
post Dec 25 2014, 02:17 AM
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Merry Xmas you guitar slinging, yellow snow eating, misle toe kissing , eggnog drinking fools..... This isn't my final product but felt inspired to play to this track.

My battery in my guitar keep are going out during this performance and it screwed with me a bit. Here's the video.
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Chris S.
post Dec 25 2014, 09:07 AM
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Hey guys - great work so far, super excited to be apart of this!

Here is my rough outline:

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/xmas-collab-rough-outline

I was wondering what your ideas were on it?

Thanks biggrin.gif

EDIT:

Already added to it a little tongue.gif

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/xmas-collab-rough-outline-2

Time for bed - Merry Christmas everyone!

This post has been edited by Chris S.: Dec 25 2014, 09:27 AM


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Darius Wave
post Dec 25 2014, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (Rhida @ Dec 24 2014, 02:37 PM) *
All right!
Guitar right to my computer via my Tascam US-144MKII

Using Reaper with (in that order)
ReaEQ (Cockos)
Pod Farm Delays
Pod Farm Reverbs
HyBrit (LePou plugins)

Waiting for your suggestions mate!



Would like to know what kind of cabinet simulation You use? Sorry for stupid question - I hope You use some cabinet impulse loader + cabinet impulse (like Catharsis 1on_pres5) instead of just trying to eq Raw tone from hybrit (or...one of HyBrit version (I think it was the red stack) had cabinet impulse built-in.

Order of effects in signal chain is crutial. In 90% IT IS TRULY BEST to not place any effects (maybe a booster is exception) in front of the amp UNLESS You're really advanced user and know exactly what You're doing.

God point to start messing with Your tone setting is

1. Plug Your guitar directly into Tascam line in/guitar slot
2. launch HyBrit
3. Launch impulse loader and load cabinet impulse (catharsis 1on-pres5 is one of the most "Ready to play" )
If You use Kefir impulse loader, make sure You set the mix knob to 100%. Otherwise You'll hear partly the raw line out signal from the amp (bzzzzzz a lot of treble) and a signal mixed through a cab. We don't want this as far as You never hear amps sounding like this in real smile.gif

4. Say "No not yet" at least 5 times when You think You should turn on any EQ on the guitar track and go back to the HyBrit knobs. Try to get best You can with it's own eq knobs

5. (with exception if You're expert) never place eq, compression or fx nor in front of the hybrit or cabinet impulse loader (kefir, leCab etc). Place them at the end of the chain


6. If You find EQ is necessary - try to start from very effective and simple tool like LPF (Low PAss Filter) Practically all the DaW like Repaer have this option in Eq section of each track. Turn the LPF on and find the sweet spot by moving frequency point

For some of You those might be "the obvious things" but I found a lot of basic mistakes within people who are not already familiar enough with some essentials of settings guitar tone in DAW



QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 24 2014, 08:39 PM) *
Ok take 3.

I changed the double stops in the ending to single notes. What do you think?
For the record, I was trying to aim for the solitude of Christmas for some people in the first half and the frustration that can bring on in the second half. I was thinking that it could be built by other people into a more joyous track or maybe something like this at the end as a reminder that there are lonely people out there. Thinking along the lines of Circles by Joe Satriani.

[attachment=40290:Crimbo_c...g_take_3.wav]
[attachment=40291:Crimbo_c...g_take_3.wav]

Cheers everyone.

Phil



Hey Phil - great to know Your that much engaged to make it best as possible. I think we still have much spacer for adding even more goods in the take smile.gif Let's think about the atriculation. L:istening carefuly I find alot of hidden, important details. You have a very beautiful beggining with gentle vibrato, prebend and right picking dynamics - it's been playd with pasion for sure wink.gif

What I would think to replace is the lick around 0:23. It does not feet the all other part of the solo. It sound a bit too raw, to "practicing sort of", to square for what You have presented in the previous part smile.gif I would suggest to find a bit less "pentatonic" feel in that particular moment, to fit the beautiful things You did in the first part of Your take smile.gif


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Darius Wave
post Dec 25 2014, 03:45 PM
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QUOTE (Chris S. @ Dec 25 2014, 08:07 AM) *
Hey guys - great work so far, super excited to be apart of this!

Here is my rough outline:

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/xmas-collab-rough-outline

I was wondering what your ideas were on it?

Thanks biggrin.gif

EDIT:

Already added to it a little tongue.gif

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/xmas-collab-rough-outline-2

Time for bed - Merry Christmas everyone!


Well...You're in that's fantastic smile.gif Now forgive us to the our regular job and destroy Your concept a bit tongue.gif

Take is something new comparing to other participants and that's good smile.gif But some notes of the scale might sound a bit off even if They do belond to a song key. It is nothign bad to use the major 7 note (C#) in the key of D yet id does create a werid mood on the G major chord (where You play it - 0:06) I think You could search for a different phrase at this moment of the track. Tritone (G-C#) could sound good if we had a bit differend mood of the track but I think fot this particular "ease to absorb" christmas mood it somehow adds a weird distraction biggrin.gif


QUOTE (Jim S. @ Dec 25 2014, 01:17 AM) *
Merry Xmas you guitar slinging, yellow snow eating, misle toe kissing , eggnog drinking fools..... This isn't my final product but felt inspired to play to this track.

My battery in my guitar keep are going out during this performance and it screwed with me a bit. Here's the video.


Jim....ha ha ha ha !!!!! You made my day! You are a true master to be able to finish the solo at all while You kid as been acting like a cat biggrin.gif You now...being everywhere You don't want it to be when You're doing something important biggrin.gif Impressive solo for such a situation biggrin.gif You have to upload it somewhere on YT or elsewhere smile.gif Unfortunately it's only and audio collab but...Your video would make a fortune biggrin.gif


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Phil66
post Dec 25 2014, 05:01 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 25 2014, 03:15 PM) *
Hey Phil - great to know Your that much engaged to make it best as possible. I think we still have much spacer for adding even more goods in the take smile.gif Let's think about the atriculation. L:istening carefuly I find alot of hidden, important details. You have a very beautiful beggining with gentle vibrato, prebend and right picking dynamics - it's been playd with pasion for sure wink.gif

What I would think to replace is the lick around 0:23. It does not feet the all other part of the solo. It sound a bit too raw, to "practicing sort of", to square for what You have presented in the previous part smile.gif I would suggest to find a bit less "pentatonic" feel in that particular moment, to fit the beautiful things You did in the first part of Your take smile.gif


Thanks Darius,
I'll try a bit later today. I hope you understood what I was trying to do though. Don't forget, I'm a beginner tongue.gif so some of these things are difficult for me rolleyes.gif I'll get rid of the "frustration" part and think about something else.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Cheers

Phil


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Chris S.
post Dec 25 2014, 05:16 PM
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Thanks for the honest feedback Darius!

I know what the tritone is, but I didn't even realize that I was utilizing it tongue.gif

I'm still learning how to analyze and understand music theory better with the much appreciated help of Cosmin!



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DeGroot
post Dec 25 2014, 06:03 PM
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Merry Christmas all,

Here is a draft I just came up with. I think the way I had my chorus pedal set might have choked the notes a bit. Look forward to any suggestions you have.

https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas


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Kristofer Dahl
post Dec 25 2014, 06:54 PM
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QUOTE (Beat Zbinden @ Dec 24 2014, 01:42 PM) *
I tried the tips of Kris implement something
What is doable with my level ..; -)
I think this version is slightly more dynamic and there are more options to think about.
Thanks for the support from all of you !!!!


Thanks Beat, I like both of your versions. They are slightly different but both very musical.

I think a lot of times it is hard to stray from the original idea we get over a backing track. At least that's the case for me, when I have done work for others and they would like me to change direction.

A lot of the suggestions/improvements mentioned in this thread are things you will hopefully work on for the coming time (not just for this collab).

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 24 2014, 09:39 PM) *
Ok take 3.

I changed the double stops in the ending to single notes. What do you think?
For the record, I was trying to aim for the solitude of Christmas for some people in the first half and the frustration that can bring on in the second half. I was thinking that it could be built by other people into a more joyous track or maybe something like this at the end as a reminder that there are lonely people out there. Thinking along the lines of Circles by Joe Satriani.

[attachment=40290:Crimbo_c...g_take_3.wav]
[attachment=40291:Crimbo_c...g_take_3.wav]

Cheers everyone.

Phil


Cool Phil, you got some good feedback form Darius. I just want to add that each time you record this one I can feel your playing matures over the backing track. This is a clear sign you should keep doing it (if you are inspired). It's a super musical way of practicing, and the fact that you are working on a collab is a bit like rehearsing for a gig: Because you have a deadline you practice in a more focused way and you improve faster.

This is why everyone should have a go at this collab! It's a very different thing compared to just playing/practicing alone in your room.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 24 2014, 09:39 PM) *
For the record, I was trying to aim for the solitude of Christmas for some people in the first half and the frustration that can bring on in the second half. I was thinking that it could be built by other people into a more joyous track or maybe something like this at the end as a reminder that there are lonely people out there. Thinking along the lines of Circles by Joe Satriani.


Very cool that you connect the music to real feelings in real life - keep doing this and you will reach/touch people in a way that's impossible, if your focus is just to display your licks and arpeggios!

QUOTE (Jim S. @ Dec 25 2014, 02:17 AM) *
Merry Xmas you guitar slinging, yellow snow eating, misle toe kissing , eggnog drinking fools..... This isn't my final product but felt inspired to play to this track.

My battery in my guitar keep are going out during this performance and it screwed with me a bit. Here's the video.


That's me, I eat yellow snow!! cool.gif

Hehe very cool Jim with nice warm sound, also video always adds another dimension for viewers/listeners.

Structure wise, I think this was pretty cool in spite of 'dense' playing from the very beginning. Also I somehow got a more live/jam impression from your take (maybe because you had video) - this also tends to add another dimension to the listener. After all a strong live take will always beat a strong studio/punch-in take. Looking forward to your final take!

QUOTE (Chris S. @ Dec 25 2014, 09:07 AM) *
Hey guys - great work so far, super excited to be apart of this!

Here is my rough outline:

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/xmas-collab-rough-outline

I was wondering what your ideas were on it?

Thanks biggrin.gif

EDIT:

Already added to it a little tongue.gif

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/xmas-collab-rough-outline-2

Time for bed - Merry Christmas everyone!


Fresh input Chris! Darius' comments are definitely relevant.

I also want to add that if you do want try to get away with a different/weird note choice, it is much harder when your guitar is mixed loud. The weird stuff tends to blend in a bit better if it's not much louder than the backing, so for your next take you could try to turn guitar volume down a bit.

QUOTE (DeGroot @ Dec 25 2014, 06:03 PM) *
Merry Christmas all,

Here is a draft I just came up with. I think the way I had my chorus pedal set might have choked the notes a bit. Look forward to any suggestions you have.

https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas


I think this is beautiful.

The beginning of this take has chordal ornaments - you could separate the second half tone wise. I guess the typical way would be to play the first part with your guitar volume a bit turned down, and then turn in it up for the lead to get a bit more drive / boost / warmth.

It is a matter of taste though, and I think it sounds good the way it is as well.


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Kristofer Dahl
post Dec 26 2014, 12:13 AM
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QUOTE (Monica Gheorghevici @ Dec 24 2014, 02:03 PM) *
I will apply what you told me in my practice routine. I liked the idea with "phrase those bends around the beat". This will be something new because I always try to be on the beat. Hope that people will understand when I make a bend around beat, it's because this was my purpose and I have control over bends. Or I will put you to answer at my future received messages on YT (just kidding tongue.gif ) biggrin.gif Thanks again for everything smile.gif


Haha you know I'll defend you until death wub.gif

But if you feel people will be in doubt - it probably means you are not ready to use those bends in your music yet. It might be that you need to stick to the "on the beat bends" for some more time. The old saying "to break the rules you need to know them" is probably valid for this scenario as well: Before you can feel how to stray from standard bends you need to make sure you fully master them.


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Jim S.
post Dec 26 2014, 01:12 AM
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QUOTE (DeGroot @ Dec 25 2014, 01:03 PM) *
Merry Christmas all,

Here is a draft I just came up with. I think the way I had my chorus pedal set might have choked the notes a bit. Look forward to any suggestions you have.

https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas


Bravo Degroot! I appreciate the pretty chords and the lead melody following. Great Job!
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Chris S.
post Dec 26 2014, 07:15 AM
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So I tried to knock out the tritone hanging on the G chord... but I feel like now that I'm starting to polish the outline that it is starting to sound like it won't go well with everyone else's sad.gif

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/xmas-collab-3


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Kristofer Dahl
post Dec 26 2014, 10:30 AM
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QUOTE (Chris S. @ Dec 26 2014, 07:15 AM) *
So I tried to knock out the tritone hanging on the G chord... but I feel like now that I'm starting to polish the outline that it is starting to sound like it won't go well with everyone else's sad.gif

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/xmas-collab-3


Hi Chris, don't worry too much about others takes - there is some cool stuff in your take, and what really matters are the insights you reach during the collab.

Once again I want to say the since your guitar is very loud compared to the backing track, you get much less of the 'magic juice' coming from Darius' backing - compared to everyone else. This is an unnecessary handicap!

So the first step is for you mix your guitar lower, just by turning down the guitar track in your DAW. If you want you can use other people's take as reference (listen to another take then listen to yours and adjust volume).


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Renan
post Dec 26 2014, 11:43 AM
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Hey , I have 2 takes !

https://soundcloud.com/rteuman-1/kris-mas-collab-1

only guitar : Attached File  x_mas_collab_gui_.mp3 ( 493.06K ) Number of downloads: 57



https://soundcloud.com/rteuman-1/x-mas-collab-gui-plus-back-2

only guitar : Attached File  x_mas_collab_gui_2.mp3 ( 516.73K ) Number of downloads: 40


smile.gif the 2nd one was just for fun
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Darius Wave
post Dec 26 2014, 02:00 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 25 2014, 04:01 PM) *
Thanks Darius,
I'll try a bit later today. I hope you understood what I was trying to do though. Don't forget, I'm a beginner tongue.gif so some of these things are difficult for me rolleyes.gif I'll get rid of the "frustration" part and think about something else.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Cheers

Phil



Yes Phil - I understand and I know You're a beginner and what we are trying to do is just to squeeze best of You smile.gif We do not expect You to become Petrucci in a few weeks...but when it comes to learn how to play it's wort to engage all the time amount that has left for the deadline to make things shine smile.gif I know it's possible and Yu really have some potential to make it happen. We do belive in You that's why we want to help as much as possible smile.gif

QUOTE (Chris S. @ Dec 25 2014, 04:16 PM) *
Thanks for the honest feedback Darius!

I know what the tritone is, but I didn't even realize that I was utilizing it tongue.gif

I'm still learning how to analyze and understand music theory better with the much appreciated help of Cosmin!



That's great! I know Cosmin will help You a lot. Theory is useful but not a crutial. No matter what is Your level it's wort to trust Your heart when it comes to playing smile.gif My heart told me that this note in this particular place was maybe not the best choice...but it is always a subjective suggestion smile.gif Triton is a cool interval but at some places it can bring a bit too much "outside" of the mood You've created in the whole solo smile.gif

QUOTE (DeGroot @ Dec 25 2014, 05:03 PM) *
Merry Christmas all,

Here is a draft I just came up with. I think the way I had my chorus pedal set might have choked the notes a bit. Look forward to any suggestions you have.

https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas




"Heeeeey Joe"..like Hendrix sings biggrin.gif

Good to see You after some time I was missing smile.gif

Sorry for being rude (but honest) but I think we know for quite some time and You know the it's now my intention to be rough tongue.gif I heard a lot of awesome solos from You and a lot of extrordinary rec takes. This one is definitely not one of Your best tongue.gif You were right that the chorus made a feeling of a little pitch mismatch and I know You can really deliver someting breath taking biggrin.gif Please make us this honor again and show as the "DeGroot" we know biggrin.gif Maybe just a clean tone and delay would make a job? smile.gif

QUOTE (Chris S. @ Dec 26 2014, 06:15 AM) *
So I tried to knock out the tritone hanging on the G chord... but I feel like now that I'm starting to polish the outline that it is starting to sound like it won't go well with everyone else's sad.gif

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/xmas-collab-3



Thanx for quick response. I think You should consider very important tip from Kris - Your guitar volume is too loud comparing to the backing track. This migh cause some timming problems (while recording with same settings) and also lower volumne of guitar in the mix will create a feel that it simply sits better with other instruments. The more distance we create between backign track and lead instrument, the more we "unglue" those two and make listener feel like listening to 2 separated songs. I would start from that point. Listenb to You own solo a few times and try to ask Yourself what is the basic difference between this and the way song You like sound smile.gif It usually helps smile.gif

QUOTE (Renan @ Dec 26 2014, 10:43 AM) *
Hey , I have 2 takes !

https://soundcloud.com/rteuman-1/kris-mas-collab-1

only guitar : Attached File  x_mas_collab_gui_.mp3 ( 493.06K ) Number of downloads: 57



https://soundcloud.com/rteuman-1/x-mas-collab-gui-plus-back-2

only guitar : Attached File  x_mas_collab_gui_2.mp3 ( 516.73K ) Number of downloads: 40


smile.gif the 2nd one was just for fun



Hey Renan! Very glad to see You join us smile.gif How's going?

I hear some great ideas in Your take but before going into phrasing details the is a thing You could to to add +50% of pro to Your take - it's the tuning. Guitar is a really nasty instrument in case of tuning. Each fret is usually +/-3 cents of the pitch. In practice it's impossivble to tune the guitar like a keybord. This is why sometimes we need to check fretted notes as well to make sure we get close to a tolerance amount on every fret smile.gif Please try to recheck a few crutial positions on Your tuner before redoing the take.

I rally like some of Tommons phrasing inspirations there. I think Your take needs some more sustaining notes rather than rhythm breaks in the second half. It will get more flow. at the moment I would keep the notes You choose but simply let those between phrases to "let ring" smile.gif It would really be awesome smile.gif


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Rhida
post Dec 26 2014, 09:44 PM
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Hi!

Not a new take.
Just messing with the sound following Darius's advices and adding distortion.
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Jim S.
post Dec 26 2014, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 25 2014, 10:45 AM) *
Well...You're in that's fantastic smile.gif Now forgive us to the our regular job and destroy Your concept a bit tongue.gif

Take is something new comparing to other participants and that's good smile.gif But some notes of the scale might sound a bit off even if They do belond to a song key. It is nothign bad to use the major 7 note (C#) in the key of D yet id does create a werid mood on the G major chord (where You play it - 0:06) I think You could search for a different phrase at this moment of the track. Tritone (G-C#) could sound good if we had a bit differend mood of the track but I think fot this particular "ease to absorb" christmas mood it somehow adds a weird distraction biggrin.gif




Jim....ha ha ha ha !!!!! You made my day! You are a true master to be able to finish the solo at all while You kid as been acting like a cat biggrin.gif You now...being everywhere You don't want it to be when You're doing something important biggrin.gif Impressive solo for such a situation biggrin.gif You have to upload it somewhere on YT or elsewhere smile.gif Unfortunately it's only and audio collab but...Your video would make a fortune biggrin.gif


Thanks Darius And Kris! Here are my files, Full track, rhythm guitar, rhythm and lead, Lead. I put some new batteries in my guitar and it seemed to clean it up a little bit. Let me know if this is acceptable...

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DeGroot
post Dec 26 2014, 11:14 PM
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Thanks for all the feedback.

@Darius- Heeeeey, no problem. biggrin.gif I'd be glad to try something new over the track. I agree that Im not entirely satisfied with what I came up with so far.


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Kristofer Dahl
post Dec 27 2014, 12:04 AM
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QUOTE (Renan @ Dec 26 2014, 11:43 AM) *
https://soundcloud.com/rteuman-1/kris-mas-collab-1

only guitar : Attached File  x_mas_collab_gui_.mp3 ( 493.06K ) Number of downloads: 57


Hi Renan, Great to see you in here biggrin.gif I agree with Darius comment about tuning/pitch - and I also think there are some interesting phrases here.

I also want to add that just as with Chris, your guitar is way too loud (see my comment to him) in this mix. Basically this will have all sorts of negative side effects for both you and the listener. So having a somewhat balanced mix is also a quick way of giving a more pro impression.

When I listen to student takes the primary thing I first want to get a feel for is how musical is the take is (that's much more important than wrong notes, out of tune bends etc). And if the levels are wrong (guitar way too loud) then I find it hard to feel the music (although it obviously is there).

QUOTE (Jim S. @ Dec 26 2014, 10:02 PM) *
Thanks Darius And Kris! Here are my files, Full track, rhythm guitar, rhythm and lead, Lead. I put some new batteries in my guitar and it seemed to clean it up a little bit. Let me know if this is acceptable...


Great Jim, I think this is pretty cool. You also have some chops going on there which is always nice for us guitar nerds biggrin.gif

I do get a quite "busy" impression when listening to "xmas_collab_full.mp3 " - meaning there might be a little too much going on at the same time with both the rhythm and the solo guitar. The parts by themselves are cool, but when added together I am not sure "the sum is equal to the whole of its parts".

And let's face it - by adding a rhythm guitar you are trying to accomplish something tricky: improve Darius killer backing! It's a cool initiative though, and with some tweaks in the mix it might fit. Let's see what Darius says.

Playing wise, one thing strikes me and that is missed notes at 00:23. It is usually tricky to get away with a fast passage containing missed notes, especially if you're playing an evenly repeating pattern such as this one.

It is really cool you have these chops, with some further polishing they will very impressive and useful. But when a guitar audience is listening, they are very likely to focus on the things you don't master - unless you can completely mesmerize people with amazing melodies / music. Some examples of guitarist that can get away with sloppy fast passages and still sound good are Joe Satriani and Steve Morse.

Having said this, we are here to practice and improve - and I think it's great you threw in a bit of those chops so we can discuss and you can get some feedback.

I also want to add that from a structure perspective, I think you did well and built your solo towards a climax by saving the faster and higher notes until the end.


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SirJamsalot
post Dec 27 2014, 01:07 AM
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QUOTE (Procyon @ Dec 22 2014, 07:41 AM) *
Thank you very much for your feedback, Darius, Kris and Cosmin - I appreciate it very much!

@ Kris: I completely agree - this type of echo is not very appropriate for this kind of soft track. Unfortunately I noticed it only after having recorded my take. So I tried to improve and recorded a second version. What do you think?

And yes - it would be more than awesome if Knopfler could sing or Slash would shred... laugh.gif biggrin.gif


Your tone is amazing. I love the sound and how you use it.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Dec 27 2014, 10:24 AM
Post #80


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QUOTE (Rhida @ Dec 26 2014, 08:44 PM) *
Hi!

Not a new take.
Just messing with the sound following Darius's advices and adding distortion.


Hey Rhida!

Great to see you working on this one smile.gif I have followed your conversation with Kris and he is very right when he says that your new approach is much better in respect to your current technical level.

I have to say that the lines are musical and easy to remember - that's great, because that's the impact that music should have on the listener biggrin.gif I think that in order to make this take sound even better, there are a couple of spots which could use a bit more work:

- around 0:14 - 0:17, the concluding phrase could have a better timing - I think that can be arranged if you play the note on 0:14 a bit shorter smile.gif
- the little phrase at 0:22 could sund cleaner in terms of execution - it's a bit faster and I think that maybe you should practice it a bit outside the context and slower, to make sure you can play it at the speed dictated by the track
- the bend at 0:24 could be more precise in terms of reaching the intended pitch

As you see, these are details which can make a great difference - I think there's still plenty of time for you to polish these, so what do you say - let's get back to work and see how the next take sounds? Deal?


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