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> Kris-must Charm :: Audio Collaboration, GMC students and instructor collab
Rhida
post Dec 27 2014, 11:57 AM
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Thanks Cosmin!

I will do my best
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bleez
post Dec 27 2014, 06:03 PM
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... with a little trepidation, here's what Ive been working on for the collab

https://soundcloud.com/bleez666/krismust-collab


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Darius Wave
post Dec 27 2014, 07:18 PM
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QUOTE (Rhida @ Dec 26 2014, 08:44 PM) *
Hi!

Not a new take.
Just messing with the sound following Darius's advices and adding distortion.


Sustain sound better now smile.gif I would try to get rid of some nasty treble around 5 kHz. Maybe less treble on the amp setting or simply place the Low Pass Filter a little lower ? smile.gif BTW...I would recommend to avoid laying over bells melody. I think those bells should sort of "live their own life" if You know what I mean smile.gif Or...You can make a dialouge with those backing bells and try to repeat their melody right after them smile.gif Sort of echo effect smile.gif

QUOTE (DeGroot @ Dec 26 2014, 10:14 PM) *
Thanks for all the feedback.

@Darius- Heeeeey, no problem. biggrin.gif I'd be glad to try something new over the track. I agree that Im not entirely satisfied with what I came up with so far.



See? I knew it tongue.gif Waiting for some kilelr take then! Thanx for the forbearance smile.gif


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Darius Wave
post Dec 27 2014, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE (Jim S. @ Dec 26 2014, 09:02 PM) *
Thanks Darius And Kris! Here are my files, Full track, rhythm guitar, rhythm and lead, Lead. I put some new batteries in my guitar and it seemed to clean it up a little bit. Let me know if this is acceptable...



Jim, Kris - I think ?I have an idea how make a cool use ot Jim's idea smile.gif Really like the backing guitar as well smile.gif I think that If I could ask for anything I would really like to ask Jim to simply learn his take and fix that little issue in his lead guitar (at the end of the solo). I like that idea for the solo - good phrasing, good tension built and those licks at the only...It needs only a bit more precision and it would be awesome smile.gif


QUOTE (bleez @ Dec 27 2014, 05:03 PM) *
... with a little trepidation, here's what Ive been working on for the collab

https://soundcloud.com/bleez666/krismust-collab




Bleez...hey man! Always warm wellcome! smile.gif Who agree he's one of those guys who You can simply recognize by his tone and style ?smile.gif I know major stuff is not really Your thing but I see You handle it pretty well and the concept for this solo is a good one. What I would like to ask is to rethink the second part. I would like to You to copy-paste the track and play like You would go into antoher part of solo while the backing is in the half. This is the easiest way to make it. Of course we need only as much as You already played but I'm just thinking about next solo of another player. It's sort of "end Your solo the way it does not sound like the end of the song" smile.gif It's hard to describe but I'\m sure You know what I mean smile.gif Imagine somebody plays after You and You do not want to make Your solo sounde like nothin more is happening after it smile.gif Try to introduce another player by creating tension increasement in the end of Yours smile.gif


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bleez
post Dec 27 2014, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 27 2014, 06:55 PM) *
Bleez...hey man! Always warm wellcome! smile.gif Who agree he's one of those guys who You can simply recognize by his tone and style ?smile.gif I know major stuff is not really Your thing but I see You handle it pretty well and the concept for this solo is a good one. What I would like to ask is to rethink the second part. I would like to You to copy-paste the track and play like You would go into antoher part of solo while the backing is in the half. This is the easiest way to make it. Of course we need only as much as You already played but I'm just thinking about next solo of another player. It's sort of "end Your solo the way it does not sound like the end of the song" smile.gif It's hard to describe but I'\m sure You know what I mean smile.gif Imagine somebody plays after You and You do not want to make Your solo sounde like nothin more is happening after it smile.gif Try to introduce another player by creating tension increasement in the end of Yours smile.gif

I see what you mean dude. I'll give your suggestion a try. I just assumed that the listener would be hitting the stop button after my solo biggrin.gif
I like your idea of copy and pasting the backing to get a less 'final' sounding take, it makes sense. Thanks mate smile.gif


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Phil66
post Dec 27 2014, 09:18 PM
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Hello everyone.

Another take, I'm struggling with ideas now rolleyes.gif I tried to get the notes at the end to fit with the drum but I can't come up with a lick the right length so there is a big gap from halfway in bar 9 to halfway into bar 11. Coming back in halfway through bar 11 adds a lot of tension I think but I don't think it works. I was thinking of an elderly person on their own at Christmas and in my mind, during the gap I could see the old person looking out of the bedroom window, reflecting on their situation and then getting into bed during the last lick. Any tips?
Sorry to put a mournful spin on this track, it's just what came into my head.

Thank you all.

[attachment=40306:Crimbo_c...g_take_4.wav]

[attachment=40307:Crimbo_c...g_take_4.wav]



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Kristofer Dahl
post Dec 27 2014, 11:28 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 27 2014, 07:55 PM) *
Bleez...hey man! Always warm wellcome! smile.gif Who agree he's one of those guys who You can simply recognize by his tone and style ?smile.gif

Yes I agree!

I also agree that the second half is not as cool, however I see a problem mainly at 00:17 where the listener sort of expects something to happen. Here you deliver the same kind of scratchy idea as in the beginning but in a higher octave. The scratchy stuff is cool but at this point we need something more creative, the current version somehow conveys you ran out of ideas at 00:17. Which I refuse to believe smile.gif

One simple way out could be to throw in a cool harmony dub at 00:17, the goal is to try and somehow increase intensity so that the listener constantly feels your take is evolving. It must never become boring.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 27 2014, 09:18 PM) *
Hello everyone.

Another take, I'm struggling with ideas now rolleyes.gif I tried to get the notes at the end to fit with the drum but I can't come up with a lick the right length so there is a big gap from halfway in bar 9 to halfway into bar 11. Coming back in halfway through bar 11 adds a lot of tension I think but I don't think it works. I was thinking of an elderly person on their own at Christmas and in my mind, during the gap I could see the old person looking out of the bedroom window, reflecting on their situation and then getting into bed during the last lick. Any tips?
Sorry to put a mournful spin on this track, it's just what came into my head.

Thank you all.

[attachment=40306:Crimbo_c...g_take_4.wav]

[attachment=40307:Crimbo_c...g_take_4.wav]


Well I think your takes are getting more and more enjoyable, well done. And what's even cooler is that I can connect your playing to the tale of the elderly person! We're getting way beyond playing music to impress girls! wink.gif

This is pretty solid to me, but just as with Bleez I feel that at one point it gets a little predictable - 00:24. Here I would suggest

* maybe play the melody an octave higher up (if possible). Add some more vibrato to it (this is the grand finale!)

* and/or: Add a harmony dub. Typically playing a third up or down while harmonizing the scale (this simply means you may not stray from the D-major scale). Let us know if you need more in depth explanations to understand the concept of harmonizing.

* come up with a completely different idea.


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DeGroot
post Dec 28 2014, 01:01 AM
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Here is a completely new version. Just ordered some new power tubes for my amp (they are 3 years old!) If I get them in time I might record it again with any suggestions. smile.gif My amp has been on the fritz lately and hopefully that is the cure!



https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas-version-2

Also, I agree with Darius that the "Bleez" tone is awesome and recognizable. cool.gif


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Phil66
post Dec 28 2014, 10:39 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Dec 27 2014, 11:28 PM) *
Well I think your takes are getting more and more enjoyable, well done. And what's even cooler is that I can connect your playing to the tale of the elderly person! We're getting way beyond playing music to impress girls! wink.gif

This is pretty solid to me, but just as with Bleez I feel that at one point it gets a little predictable - 00:24. Here I would suggest

* maybe play the melody an octave higher up (if possible). Add some more vibrato to it (this is the grand finale!)

* and/or: Add a harmony dub. Typically playing a third up or down while harmonizing the scale (this simply means you may not stray from the D-major scale). Let us know if you need more in depth explanations to understand the concept of harmonizing.

* come up with a completely different idea.


Hello Kristopher,
Thank you for your comments, it means a lot to me because I know you don't give false praise on here which is how it should be smile.gif Even though my take is technically simple I am happy with myself that someone of your calibre has given the positive comments that you have.
OK, I did think about playing an octave higher but it seemed a bit of a cliché, I'm probably wrong on that though rolleyes.gif
I don't understand harmonizing at all. My theory knowledge is very very limited, I've read a lot about it but maybe too much information with too little application stops it being embedded in your head.
I did have the courage to break out of the pentatonic scale for one note cool.gif laugh.gif
I guess one of my problems is that I don't have a big enough library of licks in my fingers yet.
Thanks in advance for any further guidance you can give. I'm enjoying this, my first collab, more then I ever imagined and your positive comments and critique are pushing me on. Thanks for all your help everyone and a special thanks to my mentor, Mr Cosmin Lupu, he works hard with me in particular on my mindset.
Big thanks to the GMC family
Phil


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Cosmin Lupu
post Dec 28 2014, 12:54 PM
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QUOTE (DeGroot @ Dec 28 2014, 12:01 AM) *
Here is a completely new version. Just ordered some new power tubes for my amp (they are 3 years old!) If I get them in time I might record it again with any suggestions. smile.gif My amp has been on the fritz lately and hopefully that is the cure!



https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas-version-2

Also, I agree with Darius that the "Bleez" tone is awesome and recognizable. cool.gif


Hey mate smile.gif

I like both tone and phrasing - you have a very refined sense of melody, dynamics and feel. I especially like the pre-bend at 0:14 and the way it all slows down around 0:16, then the faster run which has the quirky vibrato, which makes it very lively and musical and then the beautiful double stops. It's a little journey in 34 seconds! I like it very much!

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 28 2014, 09:39 AM) *
Hello Kristopher,
Thank you for your comments, it means a lot to me because I know you don't give false praise on here which is how it should be smile.gif Even though my take is technically simple I am happy with myself that someone of your calibre has given the positive comments that you have.
OK, I did think about playing an octave higher but it seemed a bit of a cliché, I'm probably wrong on that though rolleyes.gif
I don't understand harmonizing at all. My theory knowledge is very very limited, I've read a lot about it but maybe too much information with too little application stops it being embedded in your head.
I did have the courage to break out of the pentatonic scale for one note cool.gif laugh.gif
I guess one of my problems is that I don't have a big enough library of licks in my fingers yet.
Thanks in advance for any further guidance you can give. I'm enjoying this, my first collab, more then I ever imagined and your positive comments and critique are pushing me on. Thanks for all your help everyone and a special thanks to my mentor, Mr Cosmin Lupu, he works hard with me in particular on my mindset.
Big thanks to the GMC family
Phil


Hey Phil! Thank you for the kind thoughts, mate smile.gif You are doing a great job and I am thrilled to notice how much you enjoy creating. Your take is clearly improved with the aid of Darius' and Kristofer's suggestions and insights, so it can only go forward from here wink.gif

You have only began learning about theory and yes indeed, the key here is to see it applied in as many contexts as possible, as well as building up a sturdy vocabulary by learning licks and phrases and the way that they can be tweaked when used against a certain chord or chord progression. This collab is only the beginning smile.gif

This post has been edited by Cosmin Lupu: Dec 28 2014, 12:56 PM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Dec 28 2014, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 28 2014, 10:39 AM) *
I don't understand harmonizing at all. My theory knowledge is very very limited, I've read a lot about it but maybe too much information with too little application stops it being embedded in your head.


Yes you might be right about this. Let's try a simple application: to harmonize the part we spoke about, try to just start the pentatonic scale from any other note. So to clarify: just play the same melody, in the same pentatonic scale, but starting from a different note. Naturally the whole melody will sound a bit different, as you will have moved it up or down - so to speak. Does it make sense?


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 28 2014, 10:39 AM) *
OK, I did think about playing an octave higher but it seemed a bit of a cliché, I'm probably wrong on that though rolleyes.gif


Yes if you only do that, you run a risk of sounding cliché. However if you also add more aggressive vibrato and possibly experiment with other variations, then it can work very well.


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DeGroot
post Dec 28 2014, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Dec 28 2014, 11:54 AM) *
Hey mate smile.gif

I like both tone and phrasing - you have a very refined sense of melody, dynamics and feel. I especially like the pre-bend at 0:14 and the way it all slows down around 0:16, then the faster run which has the quirky vibrato, which makes it very lively and musical and then the beautiful double stops. It's a little journey in 34 seconds! I like it very much!


Thanks Cosmin smile.gif It took me some time to get this down and get the dynamics/feel close to the way I intended. It something I need to keep practicing for sure.

Also I was experiencing latency after every couple of takes. So basically had to reset the mic settings after almost every take dry.gif I ordered a audio interface that should resolve the problem at least (I have been using a usb mic cable adapter straight into the computer).
I appreciate the feedback! smile.gif


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Darius Wave
post Dec 28 2014, 08:12 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Dec 27 2014, 07:29 PM) *
I see what you mean dude. I'll give your suggestion a try. I just assumed that the listener would be hitting the stop button after my solo biggrin.gif
I like your idea of copy and pasting the backing to get a less 'final' sounding take, it makes sense. Thanks mate smile.gif




Ufff...thanx for that Bleez! I was afraid I couldn't handle to descrive things the clear way smile.gif Now I see You know exactly what I'm about. Great! smile.gif

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 27 2014, 08:18 PM) *
Hello everyone.

Another take, I'm struggling with ideas now rolleyes.gif I tried to get the notes at the end to fit with the drum but I can't come up with a lick the right length so there is a big gap from halfway in bar 9 to halfway into bar 11. Coming back in halfway through bar 11 adds a lot of tension I think but I don't think it works. I was thinking of an elderly person on their own at Christmas and in my mind, during the gap I could see the old person looking out of the bedroom window, reflecting on their situation and then getting into bed during the last lick. Any tips?
Sorry to put a mournful spin on this track, it's just what came into my head.

Thank you all.

[attachment=40306:Crimbo_c...g_take_4.wav]

[attachment=40307:Crimbo_c...g_take_4.wav]


Interesting point of view biggrin.gif Thanx for a quick response. I think it's very good You can spot some problems on Your own smile.gif Yes You feel it somehow doesn't work but that take give as an idea that You have good path to apply creative changes smile.gif Simply try to apply changes to the part Your heart tells You need a fix smile.gif

QUOTE (DeGroot @ Dec 28 2014, 12:01 AM) *
Here is a completely new version. Just ordered some new power tubes for my amp (they are 3 years old!) If I get them in time I might record it again with any suggestions. smile.gif My amp has been on the fritz lately and hopefully that is the cure!



https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas-version-2

Also, I agree with Darius that the "Bleez" tone is awesome and recognizable. cool.gif



That's much closer to the "Joe we know"!. Thanx for taking time to deliver another take smile.gif PErfect tension built through all the record. I have just a little feeling that those breaks between fast parts could be shorter or filled with something different maybe...but I'm not that confident about it...it might be just me smile.gif Great work man! smile.gif


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Kristofer Dahl
post Dec 28 2014, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE (DeGroot @ Dec 28 2014, 01:01 AM) *
Here is a completely new version. Just ordered some new power tubes for my amp (they are 3 years old!) If I get them in time I might record it again with any suggestions. smile.gif My amp has been on the fritz lately and hopefully that is the cure!



https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas-version-2

Also, I agree with Darius that the "Bleez" tone is awesome and recognizable. cool.gif


I missed this one!

I think your first take was completely superior from a musicality/originality perspective, though this was certainly not bad. From a guitarist perspective the run at 0:19 and the following licks were cool in this one.

I think this situation is very interesting. Darius and I are of clearly different opinions, though I can see where his is coming from. Now this is a very 'good' problem, since both your versions are good (it's just that I think one of them is excellent). biggrin.gif

It would be very interesting to hear what others think. Which one do you prefer?

DEGROOT TAKE 1:
https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas

DEGROOT TAKE 2:
https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas-version-2

In the end what matters is what you (Degroot) think, so I think you should have the final word. Heck you can even subit a thrid version if you want!


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Phil66
post Dec 28 2014, 09:31 PM
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Ok everyone,

Another try. The very last lick feels like a big sigh of despair as the lonely old person closes their eyes. Bloody hell this has brought some darkness out in me unsure.gif

[attachment=40339:Crimbo_c...g_take_5.wav]

[attachment=40340:Crimbo_c...g_take_5.wav]
I don't know if it's classed as cheating but I only recorded the last 5 bars at the end. I can play it all the way through but I think the first part is ok so to save time I just did the last 5 bars.
Playing it back I think the bend at :29 is off, shame I didn't hear it when playing as I have run out of time now. Back tomorrow.

IMPORTANT NOTE BELOW

If anyone downloaded the files above before 20:30 GMT there was an error. Please download again. Sorry folks, I'm still learning how to record properly.

Cheers all.

Phil

This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 28 2014, 09:41 PM


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Monica Gheorghev...
post Dec 28 2014, 10:05 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Dec 28 2014, 07:59 PM) *
It would be very interesting to hear what others think. Which one do you prefer?

DEGROOT TAKE 1:
https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas

DEGROOT TAKE 2:
https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas-version-2

I like both ideas. The second it's played with more feeling and the first part it fits with my taste. This make me to vote for the second take smile.gif But in the first take 0:18-0:20 has a very tasty bend. So, if you want to hear my opinion I will make a mix from both biggrin.gif I wanted to do an experiment and mix both takes but Joe did not put download option on Soundcloud.
My combination should be 0:00- 0:18 second take / 0:18-0:24 first take/ 0:24-end second take smile.gif


This post has been edited by Monica Gheorghevici: Dec 28 2014, 10:19 PM
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DeGroot
post Dec 29 2014, 01:23 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Dec 28 2014, 07:59 PM) *
I missed this one!

I think your first take was completely superior from a musicality/originality perspective, though this was certainly not bad. From a guitarist perspective the run at 0:19 and the following licks were cool in this one.

I think this situation is very interesting. Darius and I are of clearly different opinions, though I can see where his is coming from. Now this is a very 'good' problem, since both your versions are good (it's just that I think one of them is excellent). biggrin.gif

It would be very interesting to hear what others think. Which one do you prefer?

DEGROOT TAKE 1:
https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas

DEGROOT TAKE 2:
https://soundcloud.com/degroot-2/kris-mas-version-2

In the end what matters is what you (Degroot) think, so I think you should have the final word. Heck you can even subit a thrid version if you want!


Decisions, Decisions. smile.gif Well, it shows how subjective music can be. I respect both of your opinions very much (Monica too!) I also like her idea of maybe blending the two if that would somehow work? Both takes have a very different feel to them, I think.

I'm not totally partial to either. I'm proud of the chordal arrangement in the first take and I liked the bending idea. It is probably more suitable/nice for a casual listen? I also thought it might blend in nicely with the other takes I've heard.

The second take has more tension and build up. Its kind of like the concept in the "Climax in a Solo" lesson. Kind of builds up slowly into an explosion. It might be something that a guitar player appreciates more?

Most importantly it will come down to whichever works best with the whole musical flow of the collab. I don't think I'll have another take in me for this one. smile.gif Of course, I'd be curious if others here had a preference towards one or the other. Or maybe neither. laugh.gif Thanks again. all this constructive feedback with everyone's takes should make for a very cool final collab.


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Jim S.
post Dec 29 2014, 01:50 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 27 2014, 02:55 PM) *
Jim, Kris - I think ?I have an idea how make a cool use ot Jim's idea smile.gif Really like the backing guitar as well smile.gif I think that If I could ask for anything I would really like to ask Jim to simply learn his take and fix that little issue in his lead guitar (at the end of the solo). I like that idea for the solo - good phrasing, good tension built and those licks at the only...It needs only a bit more precision and it would be awesome smile.gif


Yes certainly. In fact I'm working the tapping and ending licks again. I'm looking at two angles. The first is how I'm attacking with picking hand. 2 problems, 1 I loose control of my tapping foot when I begin those solos. 2, when I switch positions my timing goes out of sync because I'm not familiar enough with that change.

I'm also finding that adding a rhythmic element to those runs helps keep the line in time. That's kinda hard to explain.

Darius I know the chord progression is D, Bmin? Or Db/Bmin? To G then A?

I'm having a hard time with the chord in between D and Bmin. Any chance you could give me some hints? Soon as I record again I'll post it here!
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Jim S.
post Dec 29 2014, 04:48 AM
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QUOTE (DeGroot @ Dec 28 2014, 08:23 PM) *
Decisions, Decisions. smile.gif Well, it shows how subjective music can be. I respect both of your opinions very much (Monica too!) I also like her idea of maybe blending the two if that would somehow work? Both takes have a very different feel to them, I think.

I'm not totally partial to either. I'm proud of the chordal arrangement in the first take and I liked the bending idea. It is probably more suitable/nice for a casual listen? I also thought it might blend in nicely with the other takes I've heard.

The second take has more tension and build up. Its kind of like the concept in the "Climax in a Solo" lesson. Kind of builds up slowly into an explosion. It might be something that a guitar player appreciates more?

Most importantly it will come down to whichever works best with the whole musical flow of the collab. I don't think I'll have another take in me for this one. smile.gif Of course, I'd be curious if others here had a preference towards one or the other. Or maybe neither. laugh.gif Thanks again. all this constructive feedback with everyone's takes should make for a very cool final collab.


I enjoyed both takes but for me the second one was a little mysterious. Can you talk about that tasty run near the end? That's the kind of lick I really enjoy.
Nice job man
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DeGroot
post Dec 29 2014, 05:54 AM
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QUOTE (Jim S. @ Dec 29 2014, 03:48 AM) *
I enjoyed both takes but for me the second one was a little mysterious. Can you talk about that tasty run near the end? That's the kind of lick I really enjoy.
Nice job man


Thanks Jim! I have been intrigued by some of the intricate licks you have come up with. They sound really promising and inventive!

You'll have to excuse me for not being able to explain this well in theory terms. But basically it starts with a somewhat typical ascending scale run (except for first two notes) starting on G. At first I was going to play this legato but with the low amount of gain I was able to get some dynamics by alt. picking it soft to hard to give it some articulation. I tried to time it just right to give it more of 'rolling' effect over the backing track (I didn't totally nail that). After that I use the tremelo arm to try and give it a slippery kind of Howe vibrato (again not totally nailed). Then it follows into a 4 note descending chromatic 'passing note' pull-off which goes directly into that 'broken' sweep run section. It descends three notes and then ascends back into a quick two note trill (F#,G). Finishing with five string sweep… a sort of typical 3-note minor sounding arpeggio with another tremelo arm vibrato at the end to give a musical twist. Not sure if that was the kind of answer you were looking for. smile.gif It is the part I screwed up the most laugh.gif

This post has been edited by DeGroot: Dec 29 2014, 05:57 AM


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