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> Need Help From Luciana :p, Or just everyone, who can give me some advice:-P
sillyman
post Jul 18 2007, 04:27 PM
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if ur serious about metal screamin and singin den u should get da zen guide of screamin (check out the website http://www.melissacross.com/home.php? ).
it shows all the forms of screamin also shows u how to put distortion on ur voice). bt in da meanwhile if u want a fry scream da easiest way is to close ur mouth and hum and squeak at the same time , once u gt dat den u open ur mouth and u should hav a basic fry scream. hope dat helps


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Luciana Segovia
post Jul 18 2007, 05:39 PM
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QUOTE (sillyman @ Jul 18 2007, 04:27 PM) *
if ur serious about metal screamin and singin den u should get da zen guide of screamin (check out the website http://www.melissacross.com/home.php? ).
it shows all the forms of screamin also shows u how to put distortion on ur voice). bt in da meanwhile if u want a fry scream da easiest way is to close ur mouth and hum and squeak at the same time , once u gt dat den u open ur mouth and u should hav a basic fry scream. hope dat helps



I was checking that page, because I didn't know Melissa Cross... soud good,, I will checking a litlle more...


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Kaneda
post Jul 18 2007, 06:05 PM
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QUOTE (sillyman @ Jul 18 2007, 05:27 PM) *
if ur serious about metal screamin and singin den u should get da zen guide of screamin (check out the website http://www.melissacross.com/home.php? ).
it shows all the forms of screamin also shows u how to put distortion on ur voice). bt in da meanwhile if u want a fry scream da easiest way is to close ur mouth and hum and squeak at the same time , once u gt dat den u open ur mouth and u should hav a basic fry scream. hope dat helps


sillyman! Secret! You told a secret! You... you... Why, I ought to...

laugh.gif

Nah, seriously... Melissa Cross' (first) Zen of Screaming DVD is pretty good. smile.gif Haven't looked at the second one. I don't use screaming often, checked the first DVD out of curiosity.

The only thing that bothers me is that two hours is really not enough in the way that Melissa presents it. She's a good teacher, that's for sure, but I'm sure she's better in person, and somehow, that DVD seemed more like a teaser to take real lessons from her. Some of the lessons just lack detail (like the amount of precision and detail Luciana can put up in a single lesson on the web smile.gif).

Thankfully, when I needed it, there were more "classic" vocal trainers around here, who were open enough to (and experienced enough in) "modern aesthetics" that they helped me on the right path - even if I'll never need to growl or scream for an entire concert wink.gif, the techniques are helpful for texture and expression too.

In any event, Melissa's DVD is a very good start, but I wouldn't feel really ready or comfortable enough to be a death metal lead singer after following it smile.gif

As for breathing (which this topic also turned into being about), Luciana has that essential part perfectly covered in the latest singing lesson. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Kaneda: Jul 18 2007, 06:06 PM
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Jakub Luptovec
post Jul 18 2007, 06:16 PM
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Hmm.. i got this DVD too.. but the problem is, that the only thing, that she teaches you completely on that DVD is how to warm up.. which I know how to do already.. I really do not get how i should scream "from heart" and make "distortion" in nose.. she had just shown what does it look like, but no how to...


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sillyman
post Jul 18 2007, 06:23 PM
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alot of it is just tools for u to discover hw best to scream by yourself bt (im about to giv another secret away kaneda smile.gif ) there is a second 1 that deals exclusively with screamin and fits all the techniques from the first lesson together


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Jakub Luptovec
post Jul 18 2007, 06:27 PM
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Yeah, I heard about ZoS2 too.. but I¨ll have to wait for a while before getting it.. Btw. throw these secrets here;) I would appreciate:)


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sillyman
post Jul 18 2007, 06:31 PM
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no problem. feel free to ask if u need advice im nt sur hw gud my advice is bt ill try. gud luck with the screamin


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Kaneda
post Jul 18 2007, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE (Jakub Luptovec @ Jul 18 2007, 07:16 PM) *
Hmm.. i got this DVD too.. but the problem is, that the only thing, that she teaches you completely on that DVD is how to warm up.. which I know how to do already.. I really do not get how i should scream "from heart" and make "distortion" in nose.. she had just shown what does it look like, but no how to...


Yeah, that was my problem with it too. The teaser material smile.gif

QUOTE (sillyman @ Jul 18 2007, 07:23 PM) *
alot of it is just tools for u to discover hw best to scream by yourself bt


And I think that's problematic, because making people find their own way in that regard can be as harmful to their voice as not teaching them anything at all smile.gif It's a starting point, but I'm not sure I'd like to continue by myself from it.

QUOTE
(im about to giv another secret away kaneda smile.gif ) there is a second 1 that deals exclusively with screamin and fits all the techniques from the first lesson together


I'll check out the second DVD at some point. Just to see if it's good, because I feel I have enough techniques for what I'll need.

It would just be nice to see someone who could teach it on a "broadcast" basis (because knowing is not the same as teaching - I can barely explain music theory, much less practice wink.gif), rather than have to tell people to look out for expensive real life face to face instructors, or give them half-brewed advice (as I did above) which is hard to work from without further pointers and error correction...
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Owen
post Jul 18 2007, 07:15 PM
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QUOTE
Yeah, that was my problem with it too. The teaser material


Same problem here, I was getting bored to listening as to how she was such "a great teacher".

I saw the trailer for the second, it doesn't look much better and I agree that it should be covered by someone on a much broader basis.


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Jakub Luptovec
post Jul 18 2007, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE (Owen @ Jul 18 2007, 08:15 PM) *
Same problem here, I was getting bored to listening as to how she was such "a great teacher".

I saw the trailer for the second, it doesn't look much better and I agree that it should be covered by someone on a much broader basis.


Yeah.. totally:-D It was like half of the "document", when those singers were saying, how much they had improved.. buuuut... I HADN'T IMPROVED FFS biggrin.gif

Btw. the second, from what I saw and heard, should be more to point.. rawr.. i want to learn vocal fry so much.. the problem is, that I dont know, how to translate it into czech (we have some stupid terms for everything..) so no way to find teacher for this, when I cant tell him, what I want to learn.. also, all teachers, that I met till today were like "No, you CANT sing like that, it will damage your throat, and screaming is bad and metal singing is bad, if you'll do it, you'll hurt your vocal chords blah blah blah.. just sing pop".
To be honest, i dont give a *ehm*.. I just want to scream like Anselmo, and I'll be satisfied smile.gif

PS: Try to imagine, that in 50% of lessons here on GMC will Kris and Pavel be saying, how much they had improved and how cool they are in guitarplaying biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Jakub Luptovec: Jul 18 2007, 07:34 PM


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Kaneda
post Jul 18 2007, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE (Jakub Luptovec @ Jul 18 2007, 08:33 PM) *
Yeah.. totally:-D It was like half of the "document", when those singers were saying, how much they had improved.. buuuut... I HADN'T IMPROVED FFS biggrin.gif

Btw. the second, from what I saw and heard, should be more to point.. rawr.. i want to learn vocal fry so much.. the problem is, that I dont know, how to translate it into czech (we have some stupid terms for everything..) so no way to find teacher for this, when I cant tell him, what I want to learn..


If you find a really open teacher, you might be able to explain it (might take some time, though) from the yawning-like, fractured voice, and say you want to develop that for singing - and screaming smile.gif If they're open enough, they'll realize that you're not going to be operatic singer material anyway, and all you're doing is trying to protect your voice smile.gif

QUOTE
also, all teachers, that I met till today were like "No, you CANT sing like that, it will damage your throat, and screaming is bad and metal singing is bad, if you'll do it, you'll hurt your vocal chords blah blah blah.. just sing pop".
To be honest, i dont give a *ehm*.. I just want to scream like Anselmo, and I'll be satisfied smile.gif


If you're not heading for the opera or other classical singing, as long as you do this stuff right, you won't hurt your vocal chords more than you hurt your hand by playing guitar. All body parts are stressed to some extent when you exercise them in different ways. It's not like you'll lose the ability to sing clean (although take note of what I wrote earlier, about not practicing it exclusively), you just won't have the perfectly cultivated, protected voice of classical solo singing smile.gif I know heavy growlers who sing in choir still.
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Jakub Luptovec
post Jul 18 2007, 07:58 PM
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Yeah, I've tried to find open teacher.. but the problem is, that I have only found teachers from local musical academy, and they are only open to classical opera singing.. but ill keep on trying:)

Anyway.. milion thanks for advices:)

Btw. is this thread going any further? biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Jakub Luptovec: Jul 18 2007, 07:58 PM


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Luciana Segovia
post Jul 18 2007, 08:04 PM
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Jakub;
I uderstand you perfectly because it's happend to me too...
when I was a singing student all my teachers told me that i Can't scream because i will damage my vocal chords... and they told me that if i want to scream i must do it with lyrics technique.... WHAT!!! That`s no rock!! i'm not a ballads singer !!,,, i want to scream (not metal) but scream like in rock songs!, all my favorite singers scream and they don't do heavy metal. screams are very important for a lot of styles...
and I decided to study other techniques, and try to apply it in my band and in my songs,. And it's work... so....

I can help you... just let me try to do a lesson about screaming...I'm working on it
ok...?

This post has been edited by Luciana: Jul 18 2007, 08:29 PM


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Jakub Luptovec
post Jul 18 2007, 08:45 PM
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Oh.. thanks:) And yeah.. i understand what you mean.. Normal singing is great most of times.. but in some songs and especially in some kinds of music.. screamings suits much better and its much more energic in my opinion:)

I am really looking forward to your lessons, especially that one about screming smile.gif


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Owen
post Jul 18 2007, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE
I can help you... just let me try to do a lesson about screaming...I'm working on it
ok...?


huh.gif *Spontaneous Worship*

laugh.gif


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Kristofer Dahl
post Sep 24 2007, 03:29 AM
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QUOTE (Kaneda @ Jul 17 2007, 06:32 PM) *
I'd say - and Luciana may correct me - that you don't want to do commonplace screaming - as in overloading your vocal chords by straining your throat and forcing a sound out. That's sure to damage your voice rather quickly.

You'd probably rather want to combine use of the diaphragm ("stomach") - which you surely already know from choir practice (and which you hopefully use when singing outside choir too wink.gif) - with glottal fry. The sound of glottal fry is in the yawn you make when your annoying brother/sister wakes you up at 5 in the morning, and you really don't want to get out of bed - the sound of your voice breaking up, because you actually give it too little air to hit a precise note at the volume you want. You also hear it when you try to go lower than your lowest note. The vocal bands alternately let air through and then close at irregular intervals, which causes your voice to "turn off" in the middle of the note - making it sound raspy.

It's easier to do at first with the lowest notes in your main register, and at as low volume as possible. Actually, to find it, sing a deep "aaaaah" at as low volume as you can. When you've trained applying it to the low notes, you can move it all over the register. Good for vocal stylings in the mid register, for growls at the low register, for screams in the high (non-falsetto, non-flageolet) register.

One note of caution: You do not want to practice this exclusively, or you'll find it increasingly difficult to sing without it, which means sacrificing your clear tone at all times smile.gif

Another technique is using the smaller vocal cords, but that's so much harder to explain, that I won't try - besides, wouldn't recommend doing it (and feeling safe doing it) from an explanation on the internet wink.gif


Awesome Kaneda! biggrin.gif

Oh and perhaps you should go for a "smaller vocal cords" explanation - I have a hard time see you fail doing that! biggrin.gif Also - do you know if that is what Chris Cornell does?


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Owen
post Oct 10 2007, 03:10 AM
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Heres an example of the glottar(vocal) fry Kaneda was talking about earlier;

http://www.lionsvoiceclinic.umn.edu/Sounds/gf.htm

This post has been edited by Owen: Oct 18 2007, 07:25 AM


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