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> Intresting Subject, Drums and musical ideas
ElHombre
post Jan 14 2015, 04:36 PM
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Hello

I have chosen to compose a full instrumental song as my next project.
This leads me into an intresting subject I never really got my head around.

When we get a musical idea, we often get it in our head. We have practiced guitar so we will easily
get it out on the guitar, from the head to the guitar, put the metronome in and get it to tempo.
That is fine and so for me, works well.

But when adding drums and messing with time signatures. Its always like I have to change up the original idea
a bit to fit the rythm, regardless of time signature and tempo

I dont have problem writing anything in different time signatures, but then I do it like this:
I can listen to the groove, and record over it, by listening, sinking in and grooving
So, I can put a drum loop on in lets say 7/8 and record something cool. that fine

But what is difficult is when u get these brilliant ideas in your head
And you want to put them in context right away with the drums.

I struggle a bit with that.
It never becomes as I expected

Your suggestions?


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Kristofer Dahl
post Jan 14 2015, 11:56 PM
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I feel with you brother - programming drums has always been the biggest obstacle for me when writing music. My work arounds are the following:

* Start with the drums and write everything around it. Maybe using a sampled loop, or some ready mademidi templates ( I know EZ drummer has them)

* Go for super super simple beats. I have never been interested in complex drums anyway, I just want a groove that makes me want to dance. biggrin.gif

* Using a virtual drummer software, this is a smart software that will listen to your music and suggest different grooves. You get the grooves in midi so you can tweak to your taste but it allows you get started really quickly. I use the one that's built into my DAW Logic, and I do not know what other virtual drummers exist.

Currently I must say I am drifting more towards electronic beats though, and this makes things a little easier (somehow). I think we often try to emulate live drums with our drum softwares and it's a very difficult task. As I said - I am mostly looking for the groove (not a million fills and different dynamic crescendos etc etc) so electronic stuff / sampled beats make sense.


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ElHombre
post Jan 15 2015, 03:20 PM
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Good suggesstions. Im heading for a slightly different approach.
I still want to write everything in my head, but as you said I use very simple beats.
Like only a kick and a snare, no variations or anything.

When I found the tempo for the idea with the metronome, I usually manage to make the idea fit.

For example my latest idea, It just went staright into the groove so no alterations there.
Then I had more of a breakdown, which didnt "become" as I wanted, so I had to alter it, used the same harmonies but with another rythm so I adapted it to a 6/4 time signature. I guess we just have to live with that, we have to change/adapt some ideas

Seems to work for me right now.


Something I should learn is to just program the most basic simple beats in every time signature.
I think with this knowledge, drum writing wont be a problem when composing.

Of course the drum wont fit the riffs and so, they will be shit basically biggrin.gif But if its just in time, I mean
later on I have a guy either playing drums or programming more correct and advanced drums so that it fits, and is "good".

All we need to compose is really basic beats and understanding, doesnt have to be good or fittiing drums just be in time, so that this doesnt limit us in songwriting smile.gif

This post has been edited by ElHombre: Jan 15 2015, 03:22 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 15 2015, 05:58 PM
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I agree with your last conclusions. The best we can do to get the creative process flowing is to go for the easier way that is basically create some simple beats that keep the tempo and helps to hear a more "complete" version of the song. Kris tought and suggestions are exactly what happens to me, and his solutions are also the ones that mostly work here, except that "virtual drummer" thing that I don't know but know I'm totally curious.

I did a quick search with the words virtual drummer and I got this site that has a virtual drummer, easy to set, with some presets and the possibility of edition, maybe you can use it for practice and to get used to drum grooves: http://www.virtualdrumming.com/drums/windo...um-machine.html

Joining a real drummer is something that I really suggest. It's awesome how much your ideas can grow and appear when you have a person that thinks everything rhythmically. Try it, or maybe some drum classes to get into it?

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/instructor/Stole-/


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SirJamsalot
post Jan 15 2015, 11:53 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jan 15 2015, 08:58 AM) *
Joining a real drummer is something that I really suggest. It's awesome how much your ideas can grow and appear when you have a person that thinks everything rhythmically.


Finding a real drummer is the hardest thing to do! But if you find one, you're golden!


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StaceyD
post Jan 16 2015, 12:37 AM
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QUOTE (ElHombre @ Jan 15 2015, 03:20 PM) *
Something I should learn is to just program the most basic simple beats in every time signature.
I think with this knowledge, drum writing wont be a problem when composing.

Sounds to me like you're have some odd time based ideas initially, and then having to compromise them to fit the drum loops you have?
If you want to keep the creative process flowing you could do as you said above and have a small library of basic drums for each time sig to hand. But as you jam to them to find the right one you may risk adapting the idea naturally to whatever you're playing to, this sounds risky to me if you'd like to keep it as close as possible to what's in your head, or what you originally intended.

If you can jam the idea ok to a metronome why not record it, and then figure out the time signatures on playback, then make a basic beat to that signature, to make sure it fits properly. That way you have the idea captured no matter what. The idea of adapting ideas to make them fit something that isn't quite how you wanted it to go could get really frustrating!


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SirJamsalot
post Jan 16 2015, 12:50 AM
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QUOTE (StaceyD @ Jan 15 2015, 03:37 PM) *
Sounds to me like you're have some odd time based ideas initially, and then having to compromise them to fit the drum loops you have?
If you want to keep the creative process flowing you could do as you said above and have a small library of basic drums for each time sig to hand. But as you jam to them to find the right one you may risk adapting the idea naturally to whatever you're playing to, this sounds risky to me if you'd like to keep it as close as possible to what's in your head, or what you originally intended.

If you can jam the idea ok to a metronome why not record it, and then figure out the time signatures on playback, then make a basic beat to that signature, to make sure it fits properly. That way you have the idea captured no matter what. The idea of adapting ideas to make them fit something that isn't quite how you wanted it to go could get really frustrating!


I second this! +1

I've had some recording sessions where I knew how the guitars were to be, but couldn't find *any* loops with the breaks I needed, so I layed out a basic beat, recorded the guitar parts to the basic beat, then went back and filled inthe drums on the timeline based on the guitar riffs! Then I re-recorded the guitars to the drums. It's a lot of work, but it works.


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