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> Funk It! - Gmc Collab
AK Rich
post Feb 22 2015, 07:54 PM
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You have some interesting points here Gene , thanks man. I think this is something I am just going to have to bag for now until after I have done quite a bit more experimenting with and also shake off some rust from not really getting enough practice and playing time in lately. The latter being something I should probably be more focused on currently. It was worth a shot though. smile.gif
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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 22 2015, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 22 2015, 08:11 AM) *
You mentioned the run/idea at the 23 second mark being done already and I was wondering what part you were comparing it to? The lick at 10 seconds or the next lick starting at about 13 seconds? I am just not sure which 2 parts you were comparing there.
Maybe I could change the first instance instead? Either way I am not married to the take although I did want to use the lydian b7 or mixo #4 that I played starting at the 10 second mark somehow.


I was referring to the one at 13 seconds which starts the same way as 00:23. The fact that they start the same way is good and it gives continuity to the solo. But I would add some rhythmical twist to the long descending run starting at 00:23, to make it more unpredictable. This is a matter of taste though, and many improvised solos by fusion greats will be structured similarly to your take.

QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 22 2015, 08:11 AM) *
It is interesting to me that you found the tone to be heavy on the treble side or maybe it is just too heavy overall. I actually thought the same especially when I listen to the take without the backing. Funny thing is that I actually boosted the tone thru the mids and highs after the fact with an EQ in my DAW because I thought it was a little muddy and maybe had too much bottom. biggrin.gif I don't have a good set of studio monitors and usually just use some headphones and my desktop speakers to mix or try and fix tone issues.
I think I am just going to try a different tone altogether like you suggest, something not quite so heavy. Something gainy but not too distorted I think is what you are suggesting?


Also bare in mind that when you add two takes together it will sound different compared to the tone you dialed in for one guitar - this is why a good metal sound often has much less distortion than people think - because when you add layers, distortion adds up in an unpredictable way.

QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 22 2015, 08:11 AM) *
One more question that is a bit off topic if that's ok. And this is concerning my DAW, which is Reaper by the way. And this is something I don't remember being a problem when I first started using it.
Anyway, it seems that after I record a take, the overall gain or volume seem to be increased and is clipping even though the backing by itself , or the guitar take by itself does not clip. Any ideas on what may be causing this? I have been having to reduce the levels in the main mix to fix the issue and/or the seperate guitar track as well sometimes even though either track doesn't clip by itself, like when one track or the other is muted. I am still pretty much a newbie at recording. rolleyes.gif


This is normal behavior. Typically people will record their audio as close to 0 dB as possible (though this is not really needed if your audio interface supports 24 bit). The audio of your two takes + the backing (which peaks almost at 0 dB) adds up and you will get a super hot signal on the master bus.

What I do in this situation is not to lower the master bus, but instead select all the different channels in your mixer and lower them all at once. Remember that raising levels at the end of the production is easily done with a limiter (and its not even needed for collab purposes, I can simply raise the volume of my speakers instead when listening to your take).


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Jim S.
post Feb 22 2015, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 22 2015, 01:54 PM) *
You have some interesting points here Gene , thanks man. I think this is something I am just going to have to bag for now until after I have done quite a bit more experimenting with and also shake off some rust from not really getting enough practice and playing time in lately. The latter being something I should probably be more focused on currently. It was worth a shot though. smile.gif



Hey man here is a clip of a doubled part that is one tick away from each other. The audio is two tracks, one copied and then nudged off by one tick. Each track is panned differently. The left is a little more center but still a little left and the right track is more past center but not full right.

https://soundcloud.com/division-bridge/burn-grooves-first-ideas-1


Something that I found is that if you pan too much you will swallow a huge chunk of space and as it will sound spacey and ambient it may not cut through a metal track or something very angry. Even moving them slightly off center has a big impact in its character. Placing the tracks too far away will sound very jumbled and strange. Experiment Dear Watson!

This post has been edited by Jim S.: Feb 22 2015, 09:53 PM
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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 22 2015, 09:49 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 20 2015, 11:53 PM) *
Lets hear it for midi controllers! NIcely done man! I'm gonna use mine on a collab after seeing this. Inspiring!!


Thanks Todd, I will start a new thread about these - it's a very interesting topic. I'd like to know your impressions of guitar controllers.

QUOTE (GeneT95 @ Feb 22 2015, 12:22 AM) *
And that midi guitar is Hot...........how many dates did that thing buy you? Just askin.


Man they come crawling after me wherever I go, you wouldn't believe it biggrin.gif


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AK Rich
post Feb 23 2015, 12:07 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 22 2015, 12:47 PM) *
I was referring to the one at 13 seconds which starts the same way as 00:23. The fact that they start the same way is good and it gives continuity to the solo. But I would add some rhythmical twist to the long descending run starting at 00:23, to make it more unpredictable. This is a matter of taste though, and many improvised solos by fusion greats will be structured similarly to your take.



Also bare in mind that when you add two takes together it will sound different compared to the tone you dialed in for one guitar - this is why a good metal sound often has much less distortion than people think - because when you add layers, distortion adds up in an unpredictable way.



This is normal behavior. Typically people will record their audio as close to 0 dB as possible (though this is not really needed if your audio interface supports 24 bit). The audio of your two takes + the backing (which peaks almost at 0 dB) adds up and you will get a super hot signal on the master bus.

What I do in this situation is not to lower the master bus, but instead select all the different channels in your mixer and lower them all at once. Remember that raising levels at the end of the production is easily done with a limiter (and its not even needed for collab purposes, I can simply raise the volume of my speakers instead when listening to your take).


Ah ok I see what you mean now. Thanks for the clarification. I'll tinker around with it a bit and see what I can come up with for that part. Maybe some different phrasing is in order here. And maybe the tone won't be too bad if I only do one track. I will be playing around with it just the same though.
Thanks for the heads up about the clipping issue. I did some searching on the site last night and found a great post on recording by our sound guru Tony Miro where he touched on this. I was thinking maybe I had inadvertently changed a setting somehow but it looks like all is well with my DAW and I just need to adjust some levels a bit like you are saying.
Here is a link to his post that has a bunch of good tips in case anyone else is interested. I believe point (d) addresses my issue.

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...st&p=604494

I think the main thing I need to worry about at this point is just to tighten up the chops the best I can with maybe a tweak in phrasing here and there and maybe tone tweak as well.

Thanks Kris! you have been a big help man!
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AK Rich
post Feb 23 2015, 01:03 AM
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QUOTE (Jim S. @ Feb 22 2015, 12:47 PM) *
Hey man here is a clip of a doubled part that is one tick away from each other. The audio is two tracks, one copied and then nudged off by one tick. Each track is panned differently. The left is a little more center but still a little left and the right track is more past center but not full right.

https://soundcloud.com/division-bridge/burn-grooves-first-ideas-1


Something that I found is that if you pan too much you will swallow a huge chunk of space and as it will sound spacey and ambient it may not cut through a metal track or something very angry. Even moving them slightly off center has a big impact in its character. Placing the tracks too far away will sound very jumbled and strange. Experiment Dear Watson!


Hey Jim thanks man, that' a pretty cool riff/idea you have there. If you hadn't told me it was doubled I don't think I would have known.
I know what you mean about how things can be made to sound very ambient when you get carried away with the panning. Most of the time when I have tried mixing tracks it has been when I have added a harmony to a lead line I had previously played. When I have done this in the past I have panned one track left and one right, both about the same , maybe somewhere from 20 to 25 percent. I think maybe that was even a bit much I don't know. When I have cloned a track into another channel it really didn't seem to make much difference to me unless I moved one of them in the timeline slightly.Your results seem to be much more subtle than mine were. I guess I probably moved it too much. I really like the effect you can get from doing this kind of thing so I will be experimenting more for sure. Thanks man!
Here is another collab that I took part in a while back where I experimented with some layers and harmonies on 2 seperately recorded takes. Some of the guys in this collab will remember this one. smile.gif Some of the other guys got much better results I think with mixing their lead harmonies.

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Jim S.
post Feb 24 2015, 02:12 PM
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I'm working everyday on stretching and getting ready to play these licks and I'm not getting anywhere fast which is expected. I found a few ways to play the beginning of this solo and one of my ways shich isn't recorded I really like it has a bit of angst and rushes the funkiness.

This is a newer take with newer mistakes....

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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 24 2015, 11:20 PM
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QUOTE (Jim S. @ Feb 24 2015, 02:12 PM) *
I'm working everyday on stretching and getting ready to play these licks and I'm not getting anywhere fast which is expected. I found a few ways to play the beginning of this solo and one of my ways shich isn't recorded I really like it has a bit of angst and rushes the funkiness.

This is a newer take with newer mistakes....



I think this is a definite improvement in terms of playing like you meant all those funky ideas, so you are going in the right direction and progress pace feels good to me! biggrin.gif

One more indication this is going well, is that for the first time here I react on your vibrato being a weaker link. Don't get me wrong - there is nothing wrong with your vibrato. It's just that you have constructed a cool and unpredictable fusion solo, yet your vibrato is just ~one level above Kirk Hammet. You need something more crazy to go with this style of solo. Suggestions:

* When you end a phrase on a staccato note (usually followed by silence), why not give that note a final shake/bend. For example you could apply this on the very first licks.

* at 00:25 you have a much deeper vibrato. I think it's really cool that you apply *different* kinds of vibratos throughout the solo. Do more of that. Also on a general note, I personally prefer this deeper kind of vibrato.

* Something which would sound really cool, which you could do when you have a longer sustained note to work with. Is to gradually develop the vibrato from 0 (so its barely audible the first ~half second). For example 00:06 would be a cool place to do this.

Go go go go!! It is very exciting to follow your progress biggrin.gif


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AK Rich
post Feb 25 2015, 12:27 AM
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Ok , I made a few changes in the ideas for my take here, especially the end of it. It still needs work for sure , especially the last tapping run.
I need to get it smoother by nailing the hammerons from nowhere while shifting strings but I wanted to get some feedback on the idea before I went much further. Thanks!

https://soundcloud.com/richatthelake66/funkit-collab-2
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Jim S.
post Feb 25 2015, 12:53 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 24 2015, 05:20 PM) *
I think this is a definite improvement in terms of playing like you meant all those funky ideas, so you are going in the right direction and progress pace feels good to me! biggrin.gif

One more indication this is going well, is that for the first time here I react on your vibrato being a weaker link. Don't get me wrong - there is nothing wrong with your vibrato. It's just that you have constructed a cool and unpredictable fusion solo, yet your vibrato is just ~one level above Kirk Hammet. You need something more crazy to go with this style of solo. Suggestions:

* When you end a phrase on a staccato note (usually followed by silence), why not give that note a final shake/bend. For example you could apply this on the very first licks.

* at 00:25 you have a much deeper vibrato. I think it's really cool that you apply *different* kinds of vibratos throughout the solo. Do more of that. Also on a general note, I personally prefer this deeper kind of vibrato.

* Something which would sound really cool, which you could do when you have a longer sustained note to work with. Is to gradually develop the vibrato from 0 (so its barely audible the first ~half second). For example 00:06 would be a cool place to do this.

Go go go go!! It is very exciting to follow your progress biggrin.gif


Ah I can honestly say I see, hear and agree about the vibrato. I never gave too much thought about it because I always seem to vibrato when I can but your right it's all one level unless I'm aware of when and how I'm gonna do it.

The intro is pretty shaky but if I add a little vibrato it may pick this whole thing up. My next take will be my final take no matter what so let's get crazzzzzzzy with it!
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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 25 2015, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 25 2015, 12:27 AM) *
Ok , I made a few changes in the ideas for my take here, especially the end of it. It still needs work for sure , especially the last tapping run.
I need to get it smoother by nailing the hammerons from nowhere while shifting strings but I wanted to get some feedback on the idea before I went much further. Thanks!

https://soundcloud.com/richatthelake66/funkit-collab-2


haha that new ending is amazing - extremly cool and 'out' sounding! biggrin.gif It does not sound like you are very far from nailing that section. Sound is now better as well.

Go go go!


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AK Rich
post Feb 25 2015, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 25 2015, 12:46 PM) *
haha that new ending is amazing - extremly cool and 'out' sounding! biggrin.gif It does not sound like you are very far from nailing that section. Sound is now better as well.

Go go go!


Thanks alot Kris! Glad you like it man, ok gotta go practice! smile.gif

PS: How about some inspiration from a band I was recently turned on to . Dumpstaphunk! "Sheez Music."



This post has been edited by AK Rich: Feb 26 2015, 12:27 AM
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Jim S.
post Feb 26 2015, 08:57 PM
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https://soundcloud.com/jim-seekford-music/funk-it-1million-1


Alright I just let it fly a bit and tried to get a little percussive with it and remain a live improvish quality.

QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 24 2015, 06:27 PM) *
Ok , I made a few changes in the ideas for my take here, especially the end of it. It still needs work for sure , especially the last tapping run.
I need to get it smoother by nailing the hammerons from nowhere while shifting strings but I wanted to get some feedback on the idea before I went much further. Thanks!

https://soundcloud.com/richatthelake66/funkit-collab-2


This my friend is a great take! Nice Job
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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 27 2015, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (Jim S. @ Feb 26 2015, 08:57 PM) *
https://soundcloud.com/jim-seekford-music/funk-it-1million-1


Alright I just let it fly a bit and tried to get a little percussive with it and remain a live improvish quality.


Thanks Jim, the 'live' approach is a good one which can really lift a stiff take.

However in this case, your previous take (the one with video) was superior.

In order to go for the jam approach, you need to step down a level and only go for licks you are completely comfortable with. But the weird thing is - it can actually sound better and more "pro" than when you try to play a constructed solo where you play stuff bordering your level. And when you think about it - its pretty logic.

Perhaps you want to jam a bit over the backing track without including any fancy stuff at all, just go for some pentatonics or anything you are comfortable with. Record yourself, and then listen back to it and see if you can merge some of those jam ideas with your written solo to construct something that's both original (you already got that part covered) and smooth flowing (this is what you need to work on).


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AK Rich
post Feb 27 2015, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (Jim S. @ Feb 26 2015, 11:57 AM) *
https://soundcloud.com/jim-seekford-music/funk-it-1million-1


Alright I just let it fly a bit and tried to get a little percussive with it and remain a live improvish quality.



This my friend is a great take! Nice Job


Thanks Jim! I really appreciate that. smile.gif Thanks to Kris pushing me a bit I think I am going to end up with something decent here.
I think that you could end up with a really great take if you can take all the best ideas that you have shown us ,( and there are many) and put them together. My favorite take by you is still the first one I commented on before . Athough there are very good ideas on all your takes, I am looking forward to hearing your best ideas put together on a final master take of glory! biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by AK Rich: Feb 27 2015, 08:30 PM
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GeneT95
post Feb 27 2015, 09:09 PM
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Jim S : I'd have to agree with Kris regarding your last take. I thought your previous take/video was fantastic. So much so, I sat down with the video for quite some time and tried to pick apart what you were doing and learn the lines because I really like the sound/construction and flow.

This post has been edited by GeneT95: Feb 27 2015, 09:10 PM
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Jim S.
post Feb 28 2015, 02:46 AM
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You know it sure means a lot to me that I get the feedback I get here. It's really easy to just wing it but seeing that I really do want to be better it helps to have real criticism. So thanks guys and I will take all the words and try to put out a next take to my best ability, even if it's not that fast.

Peace out homies
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Jim S.
post Feb 28 2015, 04:53 AM
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Alright so I decided to ditch all the licks I was trying to play so well and began again. I also went back to my old school setup and ditched Amplitube for a min as a test result. Please tell me what you think about this tone compared to my old takes. I may just be racking by brain on this tune...... cant ....stop.... recording!!!!!!!

As for the licks I did try to let some notes ring a bit longer and kept an effort to control my vibrato. Anyways let me know if I'm on a better path.

https://soundcloud.com/jim-seekford-music/funk-it-4


Btw GeneT95 thats awesome man. That's really cool that you were digging the video. I do believe that I can be spontaneously inspired to play certain things and sometimes they come out great. Reproducing them in a spirited way is tough for me. It just takes time I guess. Thanks that made my day!
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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 28 2015, 10:49 AM
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Hey Jim - yes this could very well be a winning strategy! This last take felt pretty natural to me.

I would advise to jam away on this one for a few days without worrying about recording. Because when you have pressure to record your mind will work differently and so will your playing be. This can be a good thing, but I always give myself a couple of days practicing without such pressure when working on new recordings - as it allows me to experiment more (in a way that's not natural to do when you have pressure to record a great take).

I felt some run/lick endings caught you a bit by surprise, for example at 00:04 and 00:12. I think the cure here is simply to jam more, and when jamming try to come up variations so that you end the runs on different notes/ways each time. The idea is to not have any structured parts.

Also throughout the take, see if you can play as much behind the beat as possible. If you can pull this off it will raise your playing to a new level. You play slightly before the beat.

It's very exciting to follow your progress! cool.gif


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AK Rich
post Mar 1 2015, 10:10 PM
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Hey guys, I am not going to be able to do anything more with my take and will just submit the last one that I did for the collab. I have been getting bad news all week concerning one of my uncles battle with liver cancer, and last night he lost that battle. Because of that I really haven't been in the right frame of mind to practice and record lately. So here are the files for my latest take. Thanks Kris for the push to make my first attempt better. And thanks to the other students who provided good feedback concerning my take and recording tips.

Attached File  funkit_collab_2.mp3 ( 1.43MB ) Number of downloads: 50


Attached File  funk_collab_2nb.mp3 ( 1.43MB ) Number of downloads: 48




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