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> Any Modal Players You Know?
Renan
post Mar 8 2015, 10:47 AM
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Hey GMC ,

I'm really in to modal music nowadays so which musicians do you guys know who makes modal music ?
Any kind of music accepted!


https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Quarta...ny-Dorian-Solo/




This post has been edited by Renan: Mar 8 2015, 10:54 AM
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klasaine
post Mar 8 2015, 04:46 PM
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Scofield rarely plays strictly 'modally'. He's mostly playing over the chord changes on the above example.

Modal bands/players ...

John McLaughlin: Mahavishnu orchestra and Shakti
John Coltrane: the later stuff, A Love Supreme and after that
*Most jazz musicians post 1959 will play modally at various times.
Santana: everything, he's a very modal player
Joe Satriani: tons, on every record there are tunes that are 'modal'
(keep in mind that most good players never restrict themselves to 100% modal playing)

Here's a great modal thread we did a while back ...
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=47756

This post has been edited by klasaine: Mar 8 2015, 04:52 PM


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Ben Higgins
post Mar 9 2015, 10:40 AM
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I'm going to openly reveal myself as lacking in knowledge here but what makes a 'modal' player ? This isn't a concept I've encountered before.

I've heard about playing the changes, sure, but if one doesn't do that as such does that make them a modal player ? Am I a modal player then because I predominately determine what scale works over everything and just phrase my way through that.

Genuinely interested in this.


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Caelumamittendum
post Mar 9 2015, 03:59 PM
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Is Frank Gambale a modal player?


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klasaine
post Mar 9 2015, 05:48 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Mar 9 2015, 01:40 AM) *
Am I a modal player then because I predominately determine what scale works over everything and just phrase my way through that.

Genuinely interested in this.


Sort of. You are what would be referred to as a chord/scale relationship player i.e., if you see/hear a Cmaj#11 chord you'll think/hear/play lydian over it.
A lot of jazz (and other improvising) musicians do this along with hitting chord tones, playing outside, thinking overall key centers, etc.

I personally don't know of any strictly modal players in Western music.
Certain types of ethnic and culturally unique music requires a strict modal approach. Many instruments are not chromatic - they require a modal approach.

Miles Davis' solo on the song 'So What' is pure D dorian mode (and he emphasizes the signature dorian sound/tones) but John Coltrane and Cannonball Adderly vere from the modal approach though they do retain the overall modal 'feel'. Bill Evans keeps it pretty straight modally.

Frank Gambale sometimes plays modally.

The modal thing is deep ... and generally misunderstood. It is important to note that what we refer to as modal playing has practically zero to do with the early church modes or modal counterpoint of the 12th through 16th centuries in Europe.

'Modal' (playing) became a popular term for a type of jazz in the very late 50s though mid 60s when jazzers started to employ it as a technique over both static one or two chord vamps as well as quicker changes. Much of the time they would (and still do) explore a different mode (or scale) over a particular chord that's not the standard or most obvious choice. This will give the 'modal' sound.
Example: in a ii V I in the key of C or Cm play G phrygian instead of G mixolydian over that G7 chord. It's gives a unique sound or quality or color to the melodic possibilities. Caveat: everything is dependent on 1) the players confidence and commitment to their lines and 2) what the rhythm section is playing/hearing.

*I highly recommend revisiting this thread. It's a great modal thread we did a while back ...
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=47756
It will absolutely give you a feel about what is and what isn't modern modal playing. Most of it is actually rock or fusion.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Mar 9 2015, 07:42 PM


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Ben Higgins
post Mar 9 2015, 09:28 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Mar 9 2015, 04:48 PM) *
Sort of. You are what would be referred to as a chord/scale relationship player i.e., if you see/hear a Cmaj#11 chord you'll think/hear/play lydian over it.
A lot of jazz (and other improvising) musicians do this along with hitting chord tones, playing outside, thinking overall key centers, etc.

I personally don't know of any strictly modal players in Western music.
Certain types of ethnic and culturally unique music requires a strict modal approach. Many instruments are not chromatic - they require a modal approach.

Miles Davis' solo on the song 'So What' is pure D dorian mode (and he emphasizes the signature dorian sound/tones) but John Coltrane and Cannonball Adderly vere from the modal approach though they do retain the overall modal 'feel'. Bill Evans keeps it pretty straight modally.

Frank Gambale sometimes plays modally.

The modal thing is deep ... and generally misunderstood. It is important to note that what we refer to as modal playing has practically zero to do with the early church modes or modal counterpoint of the 12th through 16th centuries in Europe.

'Modal' (playing) became a popular term for a type of jazz in the very late 50s though mid 60s when jazzers started to employ it as a technique over both static one or two chord vamps as well as quicker changes. Much of the time they would (and still do) explore a different mode (or scale) over a particular chord that's not the standard or most obvious choice. This will give the 'modal' sound.
Example: in a ii V I in the key of C or Cm play G phrygian instead of G mixolydian over that G7 chord. It's gives a unique sound or quality or color to the melodic possibilities. Caveat: everything is dependent on 1) the players confidence and commitment to their lines and 2) what the rhythm section is playing/hearing.

*I highly recommend revisiting this thread. It's a great modal thread we did a while back ...
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=47756
It will absolutely give you a feel about what is and what isn't modern modal playing. Most of it is actually rock or fusion.


Thanks Ken, that's very interesting stuff


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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 9 2015, 10:49 PM
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Very cool explanation Ken.

I guess the term modal has to be understood in relation to what those jazz player were to doing initially - relying on chord notes for their improvisation (If I recall my music history correctly).

So us rock guitarists are a product of evolution (who would have thought?!?! biggrin.gif )


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klasaine
post Mar 10 2015, 04:45 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Mar 9 2015, 01:49 PM) *
I guess the term modal has to be understood in relation to what those jazz player were to doing initially - relying on chord notes for their improvisation (If I recall my music history correctly).


Yes.
Modal playing in Jazz (and fusion and a lot of rock) does away with the 'chord tone' approach. Assigning a mode to one, two or more chords allows you to potentially hit a lot of scale (modal) tones that aren't necessarily in the chords.

*It's rare that a jazz improvisor will play strictly modally.

Lets keep it simple ...
Record a jam using just an A7#9 chord (any groove or style) and try playing A phrygian over it (A Bb C D E F G A) or better yet, a mode from the harmonic minor parent scale - A phryian dominant (A Bb C# D E F G A) *the 5th mode of the D harmonic minor scale.
You'll notice that the Bb and F are not chord tones of an A7#9 chord ... but they can sound really great. You'll also probably notice that this mode has a distinctly 'exotic' sound to it. It's the Bb and F that are giving it that sound. That sound is the 'modal' sound.
Mix this with the a blues scale and A minor penta scale and you have a lot of colors to work with.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Mar 10 2015, 07:22 PM


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AK Rich
post Mar 14 2015, 07:29 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Mar 8 2015, 07:46 AM) *
Here's a great modal thread we did a while back ...
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=47756

That was indeed a great thread , and a lot of fun. smile.gif
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