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> My Dream Pedal Board, Comments/Advice Please ...
Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 5 2007, 01:05 AM
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Have a look at the Bivalve as well MickeM - similar to the Uni but maybe a bit moer versatile. Both though are great amps.

Cheers,
Tony


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Andrew Cockburn
post Aug 10 2007, 04:21 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 4 2007, 08:05 PM) *
Have a look at the Bivalve as well MickeM - similar to the Uni but maybe a bit moer versatile. Both though are great amps.

Cheers,
Tony


Still thinking a lot about the amp - to help me describe the sound I am looking for, how would the experts describe these 2 bogner clips? I just don't know the terms properly - Vintage? Hi Gain? British? American? All I know so far is that I seem to like the EL34 sound.

http://www.bogneramplification.com/XtcCLBlueMS2.mp3
http://www.bogneramplification.com/XtcCLRedMS2.mp3

This is the kind of sound I am zeroing in on, but want to find it in a cheaper form. I'm thinking seriously about building an AMP if I can make one sound like this!


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MickeM
post Aug 10 2007, 06:00 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Aug 10 2007, 05:21 PM) *
Still thinking a lot about the amp - to help me describe the sound I am looking for, how would the experts describe these 2 bogner clips? I just don't know the terms properly - Vintage? Hi Gain? British? American? All I know so far is that I seem to like the EL34 sound.

http://www.bogneramplification.com/XtcCLBlueMS2.mp3
http://www.bogneramplification.com/XtcCLRedMS2.mp3

This is the kind of sound I am zeroing in on, but want to find it in a cheaper form. I'm thinking seriously about building an AMP if I can make one sound like this!

As with "experts" no matter if it's regarding wine testing there are always different opinions. I'd say this sound has a taste of earth, some vanilla and is very full.
You know, this got me very puzzled indeed. Only once I played my charvel with Steve Vai's "Breed" neck pickup trough my Peavey Classic 30 and the tone compared with my LP or Ibanez was just amazing. Clean and detailed, made my Ibanez pickups resemble a swarm of bees in comparance. I get flasbacks of getting similar sound with that guitar + amp. Sorry to say my amp is in our rehearsal room and my Charvel is not alive and kicking yet (saddles were removed and waiting to get a Breed bridge pu)

Plug my low end Ibanez into a bogner Exstacy and you won't get that sound. A qualified guess is that they used a guitar in the same pricerage as the amp when they recorded that sound.

The sound from the Peavey Classic 30 would also have this fullness, a OD pedal could help to make the sound break up and the guitar to manage this you got already. It's got EL84's though.
I really tried to think of a cheap amp other than the one I got myself, seems redicilous to compare my Peavey with a Bogner but for this sound, as I recall from my "Breed" experience it's doable.
The Breed is a bit darker sounding than Evolution pu's but those are just great, think you can manage anything with them.
I only wish I could help you with a test since I got all the stuff, none available right now though sad.gif

Ok, so I've been rambling and writing as things come to my mind. Hope it made sence.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 12 2007, 01:10 AM
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Very nice sounding clips Andrew, very 3 dimensional and organic though to me neither sounded vintage, more modern (but without drifting into ultra high gain metal territory) with a lot of saturated gain. Both sounded quite high gain to me - red particularly but not the sort of MB rectifier high gain which, to me, can be a bit harsh.

As with MickeM noone's an expert, we've just have opinions on what we like biggrin.gif . Ultimately if the Bogner flips your trigger then go for it - it certainly sounds good to me biggrin.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


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Andrew Cockburn
post Aug 12 2007, 01:54 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 11 2007, 08:10 PM) *
Very nice sounding clips Andrew, very 3 dimensional and organic though to me neither sounded vintage, more modern (but without drifting into ultra high gain metal territory) with a lot of saturated gain. Both sounded quite high gain to me - red particularly but not the sort of MB rectifier high gain which, to me, can be a bit harsh.

As with MickeM noone's an expert, we've just have opinions on what we like biggrin.gif . Ultimately if the Bogner flips your trigger then go for it - it certainly sounds good to me biggrin.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


Thanks guys - I want to be able to explain the sound I am lookin for when asking for advice on how to build something similar smile.gif I have already learned a lot about the innards of tube amps from this doc on AX84.com:

http://ax84.com/index.php?pg=legacyproject...ia/ax84_m35.pdf

A lot of electronic theory in there, but well worth a read if you have some background, especially if you have used transistor circuits but have no cluse how tubes work.

I've spent some time looking around this site and I am thinking hard about building one myself - they have many different designs.


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MickeM
post Aug 12 2007, 02:02 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Aug 12 2007, 02:54 AM) *
I've spent some time looking around this site and I am thinking hard about building one myself - they have many different designs.

I think that's one sure way to become truly happy with the sound, if you made it yourself, that sound will be worth a little extra.
There's plenty of kits if you want to start in that end.


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Andrew Cockburn
post Aug 14 2007, 07:42 AM
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Well, I ordered some parts already smile.gif I'll start another thread and make it a kind of amp building blog if people are interested. My head is full of EL34/6V6, Cathode bias, coupling capacitors, output transformers ...

Now, onto the next question ...

Speakers!

What is the deal? Why is a 10" better than a 12", why build a stack of 2 or 4 (is it for power handling or are there other benefits besides?)

Is the Celestion Alnico Blue truly the holy grail of guitar amp speakers? (I certainly hope so cos I just ordered one for my new Amp ... unsure.gif

Please oh Amplifier Gods, give me your speaker knowledge!


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My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
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MickeM
post Aug 14 2007, 04:59 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Aug 14 2007, 08:42 AM) *
Well, I ordered some parts already smile.gif I'll start another thread and make it a kind of amp building blog if people are interested. My head is full of EL34/6V6, Cathode bias, coupling capacitors, output transformers ...

Wow, that's one cool head!! An amp head. smile.gif

QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Aug 14 2007, 08:42 AM) *
What is the deal? Why is a 10" better than a 12", why build a stack of 2 or 4 (is it for power handling or are there other benefits besides?)

10" respond quicker, 12" is fuller, fatter.
Then it's about pushing air around, a 4x12 can push more air than a 1x12. I think it's really about finding what's good for the present situation. A 4x12 is too much for sitting in a closet practicing, a 1x12 is too little for the arena. Just examples.

QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Aug 14 2007, 08:42 AM) *
Is the Celestion Alnico Blue truly the holy grail of guitar amp speakers? (I certainly hope so cos I just ordered one for my new Amp ... unsure.gif

So they say, I really don't know. I ordered a ceramic blue since I though that could handle low volumes better than Alnico. my idea was to play my amp at home, in quiet, and secretly since not all family members are aware I ordered it... hush... mellow.gif
I thought ceramic give a flat response (same response no matter the volume) while Alnice responds better and better as you raise the volume.
Well, my order is made I just have to live with it if I did the wrong choice. I'm positive it will be great either way.

EDIT: Regarding speakers. I used to have two cabinets of 4x10 but was only happy when I traded them for a 4x12. That's where the sound turned great. I really like 12" speakers, the difference was huge! You know, some use 15" too, never tried that myself.

This post has been edited by MickeM: Aug 14 2007, 05:01 PM


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 14 2007, 06:25 PM
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Curiously enough both my Roland and my Lightening are 2x10s. I guess I prefer the slightly brighter sound then a 12''. Because I use Gibson type guitars with humbuckers there is already a lot of middle in my sound so. for me, a single 12'' was just too much. I think you'd need to try with your Jem though Andrew.

At the times when I tried each of them I compared them against similar/same amps but set as 1x12s. Apart from the tone I sort of remember also preferring the slightly wider stereo of the 2x10. On the Roland it made a big difference to the chorus.

As to the difference between a cab and a combo mounted speaker. As MickeM says - you will get a lot more air pushed by a 4x12 and therefore a much louder rig both in terms of watts and spl. A 4x12 is supposed to give more bottom end then a 2x12 (or 4x10 or 1x12) as well and many say is part and parcel of the whole 'Marshall sound'.

Also Andrew you might want to note that most guitar amps and cabs use lower wattage rated speakers then you would find in the equivalent output hifi or even bass guitar rig. A high efficiency 100watt rated speaker will not give as much speaker distortion at 50 watts out as 4x12's of 30watts.

Have a look at Celestion and also Rivera for some general info on speakers. Rivera is great for describing different types and manufacturers - celestion site is, not surprising focused only on celestion...

Also you will need to think about the cab - sealed, half open or open - tuned or not...

Cheers,
Tony


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MickeM
post Aug 14 2007, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 14 2007, 07:25 PM) *
Also you will need to think about the cab - sealed, half open or open - tuned or not...

Cheers,
Tony

What is "tuned", slanted no?
I've been thinking of a cab with hatches for hi/low/mid that are removable. So it could go from closed to open with the various stages inbetween. I may try to build one for my own project just to see what I get out tonewise from the various settings.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Aug 14 2007, 06:47 PM
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Don't think so MickeM - tuned is where the cabinet is constructed - internal bracing, type of wood used, profile of the cabinet and so on - so that certain frequencies are accented and others attenuated due to ability of the cab to resonate or dampen frequencies. Slanting only does this to a limited extent smile.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


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Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

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Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
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Andrew Cockburn
post Aug 14 2007, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 14 2007, 01:47 PM) *
Don't think so MickeM - tuned is where the cabinet is constructed - internal bracing, type of wood used, profile of the cabinet and so on - so that certain frequencies are accented and others attenuated due to ability of the cab to resonate or dampen frequencies. Slanting only does this to a limited extent smile.gif .

Cheers,
Tony


Yeah, tuning is involved - you need to calculate volumes, frequencies standing waves etc to get the right effect (I believe there is software). Also, ported requires calculation. I was going to go for an open back for simplicity this time around.

Thanks for the input guys, I'll mull it over for my next project - the Die is cast for this one!


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Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
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MickeM
post Aug 14 2007, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 14 2007, 07:47 PM) *
Don't think so MickeM - tuned is where the cabinet is constructed - internal bracing, type of wood used, profile of the cabinet and so on - so that certain frequencies are accented and others attenuated due to ability of the cab to resonate or dampen frequencies. Slanting only does this to a limited extent smile.gif .

Cheers,
Tony

Thanks! Type of wood will be particle board, that's been decided already laugh.gif

Any idea of where to get cab building input, preferably drawings.

QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Aug 14 2007, 08:05 PM) *
Yeah, tuning is involved - you need to calculate volumes, frequencies standing waves etc to get the right effect (I believe there is software). Also, ported requires calculation. I was going to go for an open back for simplicity this time around.

Thanks for the input guys, I'll mull it over for my next project - the Die is cast for this one!

I may just peak inside the Classic 30 box to get an idea of what's there. Going into the box! biggrin.gif

Sure, it would be nice of everything becomes perfect the first try, but finding out for one self is also useful. Signal theory and waveform calculations... if you find that software and it's freeware that would be awesome, if not I will just trial and error to see what works and what doesn't.


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Andrew Cockburn
post Aug 25 2007, 01:40 AM
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Well, as discussed way back at the top of this thread, I just hought the following to complement my new Amp:

Ibanez Weeping Demon Wah
Keeley 4 knob comnpressor
Keeley Modded BD-2
Pedal board w/Power supply

I figure that depending on mood, eother the BD-2 or Keeley can provide enough boost to keep the tube amp in saturation/compression, and of course everyone needs a Wah pedal and I wanted a change from the Vox which was my last Wah.

My analogue signal path is well on the way smile.gif


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Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
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Rain
post Oct 4 2009, 01:16 PM
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I don't know if this has been posted yet or not - but here is the link to Steve talking about some of his gear:

His very own distortion pedal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrBLnB3ze5Y...re=channel_page

Everything else:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b58Xil8RfRY


I hope this helps - most of his gear is explained in the video. Some of it you'll just have to pause the feed and check out the gear yourself.

Happy hunting


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audiopaal
post Oct 4 2009, 06:52 PM
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Edit... Nevermind laugh.gif

This post has been edited by audiopaal: Oct 4 2009, 06:53 PM
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