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> The Eye-opening Gmc Collab, You too can write amazing melodies
Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 21 2015, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE (fzalfa @ Mar 21 2015, 11:51 AM) *
hi here

thsi is small contribution, a sort of preview...

dont ear the 2 first sec, i was playing for fun....



feel free to tell your advices

regards


Thanks Laurent, this is a very nice jam - well done! biggrin.gif

It's clearly structured into 'call and response' and you have managed to avoid just 'going up and down' in scales - and instead you play phrases which is what this is all about!

You also play with dynamics - and we can clearly hear variations in picking strength, which makes it more enjoyable to follow (and gives it a vocal kinda charachter).

The only concise improvement I can think of is to try and include some pauses in there, so that you're not playing all the time.

Other than that - what you should do is to work on your overall musical expression. That's just my home-made fancy way of saying you should play over and over on this backing, to try to find even stronger musical phrases. When the collab is about to close, you should record another take where you try to merge all your favorite licks/ideas into a new improvisation.

Keep up the great work! biggrin.gif

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Mar 21 2015, 06:32 PM) *
I'm in. This will be interesting, I keep thinking of the original exorcist film sound track (Tubular Bells) so I don't know what I'll come up with unsure.gif

I don't know if I'll be able to follow the chords but I'll have a go. blink.gif


Exellent Phil, can't wait to hear what you come up with. Btw exorcist theme sounds scary (but cool!).


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fzalfa
post Mar 21 2015, 07:32 PM
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Thankx a lot !!

i'll work on now, till the end !

Laurent


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bleez
post Mar 21 2015, 08:08 PM
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This is what Im currently playing for it ph34r.gif





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Phil66
post Mar 21 2015, 08:38 PM
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Ok, here's my first attempt. My favourite part is at 00:37. As usual, I don't have many licks so I end up noodling around rolleyes.gif

[attachment=41373:Eye_Open...21032015.wav]

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/eye-opener-21032015

Please advise.

Thank you. I really enjoy "making music" in these collabs. biggrin.gif

Phil


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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 21 2015, 10:30 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Mar 21 2015, 08:08 PM) *
This is what Im currently playing for it ph34r.gif



Excellent!

Since this is all good music from start to end, there is no need to change/improve the ideas. But I have some execution related feedback.

When I hear your take I get the feeling we have a well rounded rock guitarist playing in a slightly uncomfortable style. Namely two things stick out:

Your timing is straight forward rock n roll:ish whereas your phrases are softer/jazzier. I think these exact ideas would benefit tremendously if you could play slightly behind the beat. If this feels tricky, then just try to play the last note of each phrase a little too late. That should give you a good starting point. If you do that for a while you will start to get a feel for when its appropriate to 'play behind'.

Vibrato: You actually don't always need to add vibrato, and sometimes it can be just as cool to leave it out. However because guitars by the their nature always have slight intonations problems, it is often required to add vibrato not hurt the listeners' ears. But here is a trick: Don't add vibrato immediately, wait aprox one second and then add it. Or even cooler, add it gradually (increase vibrato depth gradually). More versatility with your vibrato would add a lot of finesse to your take, and make it sound less rock n roll:ish.

I am anxious to see how this works out for you. Sometimes it can be surprisingly easy to master new styles if you are already comfortable with [at least] one.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Mar 21 2015, 08:38 PM) *
Ok, here's my first attempt. My favourite part is at 00:37. As usual, I don't have many licks so I end up noodling around rolleyes.gif

[attachment=41373:Eye_Open...21032015.wav]

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/eye-opener-21032015

Please advise.

Thank you. I really enjoy "making music" in these collabs. biggrin.gif

Phil


Thanks Phil. Your approach here is excellent - you develop simple motives, gradually adding variations. This is very effective as you don't bombard the listener with ideas (this is very common guitarist problem). Also it's difficult/impossible to play longer solos while constantly coming up with new ideas, so developing a motif is a crucial skill for any guitarist wanting to learn improvising.

Having said this, your take would benefit from some kind of memorable melody. If you have trouble coming up with one, try borrowing one as a starting point.

My most important feedback for you this time, is however not related to your playing but rather to your sound which works to your disadvantage. The backing track has a lot of depth and it is cleverly done with time based effects (= reverb / delay).

Your sound is almost completely dry to my ears, and this makes it nearly impossible for you to play a lead which integrates well with the backing. I don't know what gear you are using, but I recommend you to spend some time experimenting with delay and reverb.

With reverb - find a room size/type which you like. Turn the reverb up to the point that you can hear it, and then back it off a little. Its easy to overdo the reverb settings.

Delay - this is my preferred effect. Lots of possibilities here - but you could test with an 8th note delay. If that doesn't make sense to you don't worry, just spend some time experimenting with presets and you will start to get a feel for what works.


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Phil66
post Mar 21 2015, 11:32 PM
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Thank Kris,
I quite like it from 0:37-1.00. I really like the way the little lick at 0:37 coincides with the "clash" in the backing track, I'd like to keep that in. That just happened laugh.gif
The gear I'm using is just Amplitube with one of the custom shop amp settings. I have a Blackstar all valve head with an emulated output, do you think that would be better if I added delay? The head has reverb so I can use that.
Cheers Kris


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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 21 2015, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Mar 21 2015, 11:32 PM) *
Thank Kris,
I quite like it from 0:37-1.00. I really like the way the little lick at 0:37 coincides with the "clash" in the backing track, I'd like to keep that in. That just happened laugh.gif
The gear I'm using is just Amplitube with one of the custom shop amp settings. I have a Blackstar all valve head with an emulated output, do you think that would be better if I added delay? The head has reverb so I can use that.
Cheers Kris


I think easiest might be for you to experiment with delay/reverb in amplitube (assuming it has those effects).


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bleez
post Mar 22 2015, 12:10 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Mar 21 2015, 09:30 PM) *
Your timing is straight forward rock n roll:ish whereas your phrases are softer/jazzier. I think these exact ideas would benefit tremendously if you could play slightly behind the beat. If this feels tricky, then just try to play the last note of each phrase a little too late. That should give you a good starting point. If you do that for a while you will start to get a feel for when its appropriate to 'play behind'.

Vibrato: You actually don't always need to add vibrato, and sometimes it can be just as cool to leave it out. However because guitars by the their nature always have slight intonations problems, it is often required to add vibrato not hurt the listeners' ears. But here is a trick: Don't add vibrato immediately, wait aprox one second and then add it. Or even cooler, add it gradually (increase vibrato depth gradually). More versatility with your vibrato would add a lot of finesse to your take, and make it sound less rock n roll:ish.

I am anxious to see how this works out for you. Sometimes it can be surprisingly easy to master new styles if you are already comfortable with [at least] one.

Thanks Kris, those are really good pointers. After reading your comments I totally agree with you and I see exactly what you are saying. I'll work on those areas you've highlighted for sure.
Im a little surprised that playing behind the beat isn't more natural for me seeing as Im such a big (early ) sabbath fan! I try to aspire to play in a bit of a 1970s hard rock / stoner kinda style so I totally need to get that behind the beat vibe down.


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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 22 2015, 11:09 AM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Mar 22 2015, 12:10 AM) *
Im a little surprised that playing behind the beat isn't more natural for me seeing as Im such a big (early ) sabbath fan! I try to aspire to play in a bit of a 1970s hard rock / stoner kinda style so I totally need to get that behind the beat vibe down.


Often we tend to rush things when we're not completely comfortable (anybody remember their driving lessons?!). So the more comfortable you get with this solo, the easier it will be for you.


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Phil66
post Mar 22 2015, 09:53 PM
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Had a bit of a mess with tone. Tone is one of the hardest aspects for me, it's something you always seem to be chasing sad.gif The playing is the same as I'm struggling to think of something. I'll have a go tomorrow. Are there any parts you like at all? If there is I can listen and build on them?

[attachment=41403:Eye_Open...22032015.wav]

Cheers

Phil



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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 22 2015, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Mar 22 2015, 09:53 PM) *
Had a bit of a mess with tone. Tone is one of the hardest aspects for me, it's something you always seem to be chasing sad.gif The playing is the same as I'm struggling to think of something. I'll have a go tomorrow. Are there any parts you like at all? If there is I can listen and build on them?

[attachment=41403:Eye_Open...22032015.wav]

Cheers

Phil


YEAH!! Huge improvement already, well done!

I would say just have a little less of everything:

* Less delay repetitions (the effect parameter is usually called "feedback" )

* Lower the delay mix a little bit.

The general rule is to back off the effect so you barely can hear it. That's when the magic happens. This is also why it is often so hard to determine exactly what effects you favorite guitarists use.


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Phil66
post Mar 23 2015, 10:19 PM
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Thanks Kris,

Ok another little tweak. Once I get the sound ok I'm hoping it will inspire me a little. My favourite section (playing wise) is from 00:37-1:00. What do you reckon?
Thanks for your help.

[attachment=41406:Eye_Open...23032015.wav]

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/eye-opener-23032015

Cheers

Phil


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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 23 2015, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Mar 23 2015, 10:19 PM) *
Thanks Kris,

Ok another little tweak. Once I get the sound ok I'm hoping it will inspire me a little. My favourite section (playing wise) is from 00:37-1:00. What do you reckon?
Thanks for your help.

[attachment=41406:Eye_Open...23032015.wav]

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/eye-opener-23032015

Cheers

Phil


I think this take is pretty nice throughout! My favorite part is probably the bend at 00:31 which is neatly phrased, spot on and unpredictable. You have built the take gradually with dynamics and this kind of playing works very well in a band situation (hint hint smile.gif ).

With the exception of the part starting at 00:44, you don't really take 'lead guitar space'. Instead your take works a bit like rhythm guitar, complementing the backing, and there is actually space for someone else to solo over your take.

This is cool and will work great for the final mix, as we'll be able to do just that. So it's up to you if you want to tweak your concept further or not.

If you do want to turn into a more dominating lead, I would suggest adding more sustained notes. And as mentioned before I would really like to hear you borrow a melody from somewhere just as inspiration/starting point.


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Todd Simpson
post Mar 24 2015, 02:46 AM
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EGAD!! FZALFA!! The whole point is to share smile.gif There is no "better" or "worse" it's just about sharing what the music says to you. That's all smile.gif So please do share more! smile.gif

These collabs are what makes GMC so cool! smile.gif

Your take video is very cool!!! I'd say your doing great!

Todd


QUOTE (fzalfa @ Mar 20 2015, 01:11 PM) *
humm...

i cannot send my participation, todd is to far better..... i give up !

i have somthing to show, but it's ugly, full of false notes and crapy..... and my brand new webcam is blurry.... dammnnnn

i'm so shy...

Laurent


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Mar 24 2015, 02:48 AM


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Phil66
post Mar 24 2015, 09:37 PM
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Ok, worked late, got in 15 minutes ago, was listening to Home by Satch on the way back. Came up with this.

[attachment=41412:Eye_Open...24032015.wav]

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/eye-opener-24032015

Critique please.

Phil


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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 24 2015, 11:06 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Mar 24 2015, 09:37 PM) *
Ok, worked late, got in 15 minutes ago, was listening to Home by Satch on the way back. Came up with this.

[attachment=41412:Eye_Open...24032015.wav]

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/eye-opener-24032015

Critique please.

Phil


Great Phil! Now we have a basis for something more melodic.

To give your take some action, I would like to see something different happen at 00:31. Perhaps bring back your first idea or come up with a new one.

The idea is to not play one theme only, and repeat it throughout the solo. But instead have several themes. Typically when doing this, we want to have the more laid back themes first and then gradually intensify. This way we take the listener to a climax.

"Intensifying" can mean playing more aggressively ( = hitting the strings harder, turn up the volume knob, add more vibrato etc ), and/or play a bit faster (= more notes), or play some tension notes etc. The idea is to take the listener from point A to point B (sorry for the cliché).

I think it's great you were able to adopt a different theme so quickly, we should be able to build a cool take together!


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Todd Simpson
post Mar 26 2015, 11:03 PM
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Todd here!! smile.gif Here is a preview of my take. I"ll upload the untitled vid files and solo only files as well. I used my 8 string Cobra for this one and used all 8 strings for the solo. I took a cue from some earlier solos and did a sort of "call and response" approach. Enjoy!!! smile.gif



SIGNAL CHAIN
*Strictly 7, 8 String Custom Cobra (Lundgren M8 Pickups)
*Avid 11 Rack Custom Patch (Based on the BOGNER amp)
Attached File  _Semi__Bogner_4a.tfx.zip ( 1.23K ) Number of downloads: 45

Attached Image
*LOGIC X (Still "the" DAW for Mac folks IMHO)


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GeneT95
post Mar 27 2015, 12:35 AM
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Working on a little rhythm with the Collab backing since I got a new guitar, a baritone made by Jericho Guitars in Texas. I got a spalted maple 27" Avenger. This is the first long scale guitar I've bought. The Avenger is pretty damn cool and well made. I might even get me a 7 or 8 string from them later. The price is great and the build quality/pickups are fantastic.

Anyway. I kept it a little louder than I'll probably do if I use it and add lead fills for the collav. Not sure how well it will work with lead fills. Still workin on that part.

https://soundcloud.com/shallowlines/eyeopener

I tried video. I suck at recording yet. But one of these days I'll post my mug and sloppy hands.

Edit : Ah, the mix isn't too bad. I think soundcloud's compression dampens what I hear in FRFR. And the guitar is slightly Left of center to make room for leads on the 'slightly' right.

This post has been edited by GeneT95: Mar 27 2015, 12:43 AM
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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 27 2015, 10:14 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Mar 26 2015, 11:03 PM) *
Todd here!! smile.gif Here is a preview of my take. I"ll upload the untitled vid files and solo only files as well. I used my 8 string Cobra for this one and used all 8 strings for the solo. I took a cue from some earlier solos and did a sort of "call and response" approach. Enjoy!!! smile.gif



SIGNAL CHAIN
*Strictly 7, 8 String Custom Cobra (Lundgren M8 Pickups)
*Avid 11 Rack Custom Patch (Based on the BOGNER amp)
Attached File  _Semi__Bogner_4a.tfx.zip ( 1.23K ) Number of downloads: 45

Attached Image
*LOGIC X (Still "the" DAW for Mac folks IMHO)


Thanks Todd- that's some killer shredding and impressive usage of 8 strings! biggrin.gif Also I find your right hand control extremely inspirational.

We obviously have different musical preferences - so take my feedback with a pinch of salt and use whatever you feel might be beneficial to you (if anything). In order of relevance:

* construction wise: You give you everything from start. This is cool, but to me the backing track calls for a more laid back approach, especially with the soft intro. At 00:20 you already have a full blown counterpart orchestration. If I had written this I would have saved that intense part until the climax (usually somewhere at the end of the solo). Basically if I just listen to your guitar parts it sounds interesting (especially for guitarists), but if I listen to your take as a whole with the backing I feel there is a mismatch.

* Tone: I sense this tone is a bit more dynamic than what I am used to hearing form you, and personally I find this cool. Generally when dealing with hi-gain we want to be extremely careful with any effect that can introduce further compression. A good hi gain amp [sim] can give you higain with somewhat retained dynamics. But the more effects you add in the chain the more likely the signal gets squashed somewhere. EQ wise I get the impression you have started with a scooped sound but dialed out all the bass (which is a good move to fit the guitar in a mix) - however what remains is a thin and treblish tone, which is a pity since this kind of backing track provides lots of space for juicy midrange (as opposed to backing tracks with biting rhythm guitars).

Personally I'd like to see you go for a standard rock sound, ie a high gain marshall with a maximum of one booster in front of it with just average EQ settings including mid range (no scooping). This might obviously feel horrible to you, and you will need to give it weeks of playing. But after that magic can start to happen and your technique will start adapting to this new dynamic sound.

Awesome to have you in the collab! biggrin.gif




QUOTE (GeneT95 @ Mar 27 2015, 12:35 AM) *
Working on a little rhythm with the Collab backing since I got a new guitar, a baritone made by Jericho Guitars in Texas. I got a spalted maple 27" Avenger. This is the first long scale guitar I've bought. The Avenger is pretty damn cool and well made. I might even get me a 7 or 8 string from them later. The price is great and the build quality/pickups are fantastic.

Anyway. I kept it a little louder than I'll probably do if I use it and add lead fills for the collav. Not sure how well it will work with lead fills. Still workin on that part.

https://soundcloud.com/shallowlines/eyeopener

I tried video. I suck at recording yet. But one of these days I'll post my mug and sloppy hands.

Edit : Ah, the mix isn't too bad. I think soundcloud's compression dampens what I hear in FRFR. And the guitar is slightly Left of center to make room for leads on the 'slightly' right.


Great - I like this concept a lot. What you did here is the most bullet proof way to improve:

By jamming - while staying within your range - over a musical tack such as this one, you will evolve in ways hard to describe in instructional terms. It is not hard to tell the difference between someone who has practiced phrasing, chops, changes (etc) broken down into instructional blocks - and someone who just spent time playing music all day.

So what you did here is pretty much the goal of these collabs, you had fun with your guitar over this backing and we can tell. You didn't care about doing anything fancy, just music! Keep going like this! biggrin.gif

I don't really have any specific improvement suggestions, I would advise to keep jamming over this one as long as it feels fun to you. And then move on to another backing track. That's exactly how I do it myself.

Awesome to have you in!


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fzalfa
post Mar 27 2015, 12:10 PM
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hi todd

it's ok for me, i share, i put my shy to hell ;p

nice take, original way to do smile.gif

Laurent


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