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> The Eye-opening Gmc Collab, You too can write amazing melodies
fzalfa
post Mar 27 2015, 02:48 PM
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a new production.....



rewards, beers, advices, insults.... welcome

Laurent

edit: it's crapy, i must do another one...... the volume gain is too low, i cannot hear all my notes...

This post has been edited by fzalfa: Mar 27 2015, 07:39 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Mar 27 2015, 07:23 PM
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KRIS: Thanks very much for the detailed feedback smile.gif You have a VERY good ear. You picked out exactly what happened on my EQ settings and your spot on. I was going for a bit more dialed back sound in terms of gain but of course my usual deeeeep scoop was still in effect. This makes things waaaaaaaaay to bassy when the 8th string comes in to play to I trimmed out the bass.
Sadly, this resulted in a tone that lacks bass and mid range punch. I'm going to go back see if I can get a better balance on the EQ. I've found that EQing the 8 string is most challenging.

Also, I hear what you are saying in terms of jumping in to quickly with the full on counterpoint bit. I was doing it pre-emptively as my solo usually gets chopped down to just a phrase or two in the final mix so I wanted to put in as much as I could. If I was arranging this for something that would be used in it's entirety I"d try to build it over time so that it worked as it's own composition as you suggested so you are spot on there as well smile.gif I'll take another look at the arrangement to see if I can make it a bit more complimentary to the backing. As it stands, it's probably sticking out a bit much with the "chase" solo as arranged. smile.gif I was going for one guitar chasing another just a few bars behind.

I"ll be back with another mix smile.gif

Todd

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Mar 27 2015, 07:29 PM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 27 2015, 11:05 PM
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QUOTE (fzalfa @ Mar 27 2015, 02:48 PM) *
a new production.....



rewards, beers, advices, insults.... welcome

Laurent

edit: it's crapy, i must do another one...... the volume gain is too low, i cannot hear all my notes...


Thanks Laurent, just as with the last one there are cool musical ideas in here.

However - I do think your previous take was better. A wild guess would be that the actual "stage fright" you felt when hopping in to a collab for the first time helped you perform better.This is the exact same way it works for professional artists, when we are confronted with an audience, camera (etc) something happens and we push ourself to do the best we can.

So I think by simply redoing this one and giving your everything, we'll see a difference.

A more specific comment about the intro: Remember that the first 5 seconds are the most important ones. So even jazz guitarists (who rely strictly on improvisation) will prepare themselves with a couple of pre-written licks just to start the performance of as strong a possible. So I think you should do the same - try two write a starting melody to make sure you get a good start, after that you can jam away.

Finally, I would like you to do some vibrato research. Check out how your favorite players phrase their vibrato. How fast is it? How deep? How do they hold their hand when doing vibrato? Is it different depending on which string they are playing on etc.

Personally I would like to see you not always add vibrato, and try some different kinds of vibratos. If you have played a soft line, then do a soft vibrato - and if you have played a fast line, do an aggressive (more audible) vibrato.

Keep up the good work! biggrin.gif


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fzalfa
post Mar 27 2015, 11:21 PM
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hi

i trail this vibrato's probleme since i play (2y) it' really hard for me to overide the need to do it smile.gif

my actual trouble with this projet is about i am out idea, so i force myself to do, but no way..... till the 4th i'll certainely have a flash smile.gif

keep on workin on, and on some other project like Europa alone and cantaloup island, with a friend who play it perfectly.....make me cry !!

regards

Laurent


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Todd Simpson
post Mar 28 2015, 06:34 AM
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Per KRIS spiff suggestions, I built a patch using a JCM 800 Marshall and a single boost (Tube Screamer). It does sound better with the backing. Thanks for the tip! Also, I trimmed down the arrangement to a single guitar. Here goes!

*P.S. This one is available to watch in full HD 1080p


Here is the link to download the patch. smile.gif
http://bitly.com/1Bv9yCh
Attached Image

*TAKE WITH BACKING

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2761041...WithBacking.aif

*TAKE WITHOUT BACKING
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2761041...houtBacking.aif

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Apr 8 2015, 10:49 PM


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AK Rich
post Mar 28 2015, 07:42 AM
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Hey guys, I thought I would share what I have going on for my take currently. There are some mistakes here and there and I feel like part of it is rushed a bit. Also I plan on making a couple slight changes in note choice. It is still a work in progress and I plan on getting it down to where I can play it in a bit of a more relaxed way which I think is key in getting it to sound the best.
Also, I think I may try to do an improvised take with the long version of the backing as well that will most likely result in a bit of a different feel, probably a bit more bluesy sounding. Anyway, let me know what you think!

https://soundcloud.com/richatthelake66/eye-opener-collab-10
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fzalfa
post Mar 28 2015, 09:12 AM
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NICE !!!!!! biggrin.gif

Laurent


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fzalfa
post Mar 28 2015, 02:32 PM
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a new shoot.....

false start for the first mesure, did i continue in this way for the melody ?



Laurent


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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 28 2015, 10:26 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Mar 28 2015, 06:34 AM) *
Per KRIS spiff suggestions, I built a patch using a JCM 800 Marshall and a single boost (Tube Screamer). It does sound better with the backing. Thanks for the tip! Also, I trimmed down the arrangement to a single guitar. Here goes!

*P.S. This one is available to watch in full HD 1080p


Here is the link to download the patch. smile.gif
http://bitly.com/1Bv9yCh
Attached Image


Thanks Todd. Huge sound improvement indeed, well done!

Now there is just one thing preventing me from digging the music, and that is the level of your lead. It feels much louder than the backing - and your lines don't get any juice from Javier's amazing backing. I sense your ideas are cool, but it wouldn't be fair for me to comment on them before they are 'in line' with the music. Also, this is the ultimate test of your sound patch, can it cut through without mixing it above all other instruments? ( I think it will work).

QUOTE (AK Rich @ Mar 28 2015, 07:42 AM) *
Hey guys, I thought I would share what I have going on for my take currently. There are some mistakes here and there and I feel like part of it is rushed a bit. Also I plan on making a couple slight changes in note choice. It is still a work in progress and I plan on getting it down to where I can play it in a bit of a more relaxed way which I think is key in getting it to sound the best.
Also, I think I may try to do an improvised take with the long version of the backing as well that will most likely result in a bit of a different feel, probably a bit more bluesy sounding. Anyway, let me know what you think!

https://soundcloud.com/richatthelake66/eye-opener-collab-10


Excellent AK!

You know I like your solo construction skills, and this one is no exception. Very nice melodies throughout, and fresh licks/phrasing. And brilliant move to follow the backing melody at 00:59 - simple but super effective!

Here I have tried to list in order of priority what I think will raise your take to a new level:

* tone: Though you have done a very good job integrating your lead with the mix, your guitar tone sounds a bit digital, for lack of a better word. It's a bit 'treblish' and lacking warmth and dynamics. Nowadays there are so many good amp plugins (many which are free/low cost) so no real excuses for not addressing this. Plus I know you can recognize a cool tone when you hear it, so just tweak away.

* The very first bends don't feel that strong to me. I am actually not sure why, but maybe this is what you were referring to when you said you want to further tweak note choice? You did a very good job building anticipation by not playing throughout the whole intro, but that places huge focus on the first notes.

* 00:40 the faster passage here is very tasteful, and you almost pull it off. However the ending note is not convincing. Just as with the intro - if you only have one fast passage that one will stick out, mistakes there will somehow be more apparent.

Go AK!! You have got the ideas, you 'just' need to polish your tone and technique!

QUOTE (fzalfa @ Mar 28 2015, 02:32 PM) *
a new shoot.....

false start for the first measure, did i continue in this way for the melody ?



Laurent


Excellent Laurent, now I am seeing improvement.

Musical ideas are still good, but now I sense much more conviction/devotion in your take. Basically you played it more like you 'meant it', this time.

As for improvements I would like you to focus one single thing, even though there are various tiny stuff here and there to comment on - focusing on this one thing will raise your entire take to a new level. I am speaking about:

Timing:

There is nothing wrong with your timing, but you are almost constantly playing slightly before the beat.

This is a very common thing to do, especially when we are focusing on getting everything right. I do it all the time and I have to struggle very hard to avoid it.

Since it's a matter of milliseconds here and there, it can be a little hard to address consciously. So what i do instead is to try to 'feel' laid back when playing. And for some passages I try to really play noticeably behind the beat (it could be cool to do with the triplets at 00:42, for example).

I realize I might confuse you now. Because I first asked you to play it like you mean it, and now I am asking you to be laid back..! But music is just that: it should convey a certain kind of mood by playing aggressively like you mean it, and another mood which is more relaxed. When you can switch back and forth between those, the listener will get a wow feeling - even though most could impossibly describe why they liked what they heard.

It's like a tension and release thing, but with timing. Does it make any sense at all? unsure.gif

I would advise to just keep jamming and try to think of these things, you are definitely going in the right direction!


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fzalfa
post Mar 29 2015, 12:10 AM
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hi

thanks for listening

ok i must "play" with timing, tomorow i'll see my "teacher" and talk him about that, he certainely can help me.

Laurent


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AK Rich
post Mar 29 2015, 02:59 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Mar 28 2015, 01:26 PM) *
Excellent AK!

You know I like your solo construction skills, and this one is no exception. Very nice melodies throughout, and fresh licks/phrasing. And brilliant move to follow the backing melody at 00:59 - simple but super effective!

Here I have tried to list in order of priority what I think will raise your take to a new level:

* tone: Though you have done a very good job integrating your lead with the mix, your guitar tone sounds a bit digital, for lack of a better word. It's a bit 'treblish' and lacking warmth and dynamics. Nowadays there are so many good amp plugins (many which are free/low cost) so no real excuses for not addressing this. Plus I know you can recognize a cool tone when you hear it, so just tweak away.

* The very first bends don't feel that strong to me. I am actually not sure why, but maybe this is what you were referring to when you said you want to further tweak note choice? You did a very good job building anticipation by not playing throughout the whole intro, but that places huge focus on the first notes.

* 00:40 the faster passage here is very tasteful, and you almost pull it off. However the ending note is not convincing. Just as with the intro - if you only have one fast passage that one will stick out, mistakes there will somehow be more apparent.

Go AK!! You have got the ideas, you 'just' need to polish your tone and technique!


Hey Kris, thanks for the encouraging words and great feedback!
It is interesting that you mention following the backing melody in the final moments. The ideas I had for that section in my first bunch of idea takes just seemed to clash with that melody, so I decided that working something out to compliment it would sounds much better. This is one part that I think could be just a little tighter for a final take.
And yes, I am also not satisfied with the way I played the opening lines in my take. I have some other takes where I think it sounds better but then there are always other parts that didn't sound good in those takes. rolleyes.gif Anyway I think that once I have the construction finalized, I can start to play it the same way every time and get it all to sound decent for a final take.
The same thing kind of goes for the short fast legato lines you mentioned.

As far as the tone goes. In the short term, it is just something I will have to deal with. I am running a line out from a Vox VT 120+ direct to my soundcard on my PC ,and I can tell you that if it were mic'd instead, it would sound at least 10 times better. So as soon as I can get my hands on a decent interface and start to mic my amp I think you will notice a big improvement in my tone.
I have tried some VST's in the past but I have never had much luck with them. I first tried Guitar Rig and found it to be extremely noisy. I also have some other plugins in my DAW. Le Pou and a few others but the other issue I have with using them is the very slight delay I get or the response time from when I hit a note and when I hear it. This is something I have found to be very annoying, especially when going back and forth from playing with plugins to playing thru a real amp.
So I don't really want to spend alot of time trying to dial in a plugin when I could be refining my take. I hope this makes sense.

Thanks again man!

PS: Oh yeah! I have a question for you before I forget. When I render my final guitar only take. Should I have it fade out like I do for my take with the backing , or not fade out and let whoever is going to do the final mixdown take care of that if needed?

This post has been edited by AK Rich: Mar 29 2015, 04:51 AM
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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 29 2015, 11:02 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Mar 29 2015, 02:59 AM) *
PS: Oh yeah! I have a question for you before I forget. When I render my final guitar only take. Should I have it fade out like I do for my take with the backing , or not fade out and let whoever is going to do the final mixdown take care of that if needed?


No need to do the fade out yourself, as we might not even place your take at the end, for the final mix!


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AK Rich
post Mar 30 2015, 05:34 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Mar 29 2015, 02:02 PM) *
No need to do the fade out yourself, as we might not even place your take at the end, for the final mix!

Ok cool , that's kind of what I was thinking. Thanks Kris.
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Todd Simpson
post Mar 31 2015, 05:20 AM
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KRIS: This is my final take so I''m leaving it to you to for the final Mix. I left it loud in the preview just to so folks could hear the lead which I used in last weekends Vid Chat Lesson. The good news is that the patch seems to work well at various volumes. I trust your ears so I"m sure you find the right level on the final mix. I"ll submit the guitar only track.



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Bas Cuthach
post Mar 31 2015, 05:48 PM
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This is not final, I have many ideas and always
play it different each time, this is a simple concept,
do you like the idea?





This is what happens when i use a daw lol

https://soundcloud.com/bascuthach/eye-opener-collab-with-backing

This post has been edited by Bas Cuthach: Mar 31 2015, 07:45 PM
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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 31 2015, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (Bas Cuthach @ Mar 31 2015, 05:48 PM) *
This is not final, I have many ideas and always
play it different each time, this is a simple concept,
do you like the idea?





This is what happens when i use a daw lol

https://soundcloud.com/bascuthach/eye-opener-collab-with-backing


Awesome to see a take from you Bas!

I like how you caught the dynamics of the backing, and use a clean sound for the intro. Also I think there is a musical thread throughout your take, which is great. In other words you did not let a bunch of [speed] licks be the musical guideline.

There is one single thing you should prioritize improving:

Tone
This is by far the biggest issue. To be specific it's the distortion that is extremely fizzy, with too much treble. To simplify things you could turn down treble and increase midrange. Alternatively just tweak around or browse presets until you find something that sounds softer/smoother.

It's worth noting though, that it sounds a bit better at 1:06 . Not sure if you used a different patch or if the softer pick touch did it.

The reason I am nagging about this, is because your take would sound much more musical with a better tone, without you even need to change a single note!

If you can first address this problem we can start analyzing your playing. However you have some cool ideas there, so like i said improving tone is the absolute most important thing for you to do now. Fingers crossed for you!


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Bas Cuthach
post Mar 31 2015, 11:42 PM
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but i like my distortion lol ok some minor changes, ya getting that sweet tone is something i have trouble with

Attached File  eye_opener_collab_take_2.mp3 ( 1.13MB ) Number of downloads: 46


with out backing

Attached File  eye_opener_collab_w_o_backing.mp3 ( 1.11MB ) Number of downloads: 44


This post has been edited by Bas Cuthach: Apr 1 2015, 03:26 PM
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Monica Gheorghev...
post Apr 1 2015, 11:39 AM
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You know guys that I always begin by thanking to my amazing instructor Darek because if I do something good it's just because he is a damn brilliant instructor smile.gif

Because all these collabs are a great workout for me, for this improv I had two requests from Darek.
1- to add more gain in tone
2- to use the volume knob. So, for the first half the guitar volume knob it's roll out around the middle position, to catch a warm sound for the soft notes. Then the volume knob it's rolled at a loud position.
Darek knew from the start that this changing of tone will obligate me to think and play in other way (more gain requires a totally different playing to not lose the dynamics). That's why I love my instructor because he always has prepared traps for me smile.gif

Kris: My first approach for this collab had included your shred swing pattern but I failed the take because I chose a wrong place to add that lick. In my stupid mind was a good idea to start in that way biggrin.gif The funny thing is that inside me I had the feeling that something is wrong and Darek will put me to make another take. So.....he did it (hahaha... he made this for 3 times) biggrin.gif Maybe next time I will find the perfect place to use your lick.
Now you will listen my fourth approach. It’s totally different from any point of view: another style, tone, playing, dynamics and composing approach (tension built from the first note until the last note). I really killed my guitar, mind and fingers biggrin.gif

Attached File  The_eye_opening_backing___guitar.mp3 ( 1.1MB ) Number of downloads: 94

Attached File  Guitar_Only.mp3 ( 1.15MB ) Number of downloads: 39


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fzalfa
post Apr 1 2015, 09:29 PM
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hi here

a brand new recording.



let me know...

thankx

Laurent

This post has been edited by fzalfa: Apr 1 2015, 09:33 PM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Apr 1 2015, 10:25 PM
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QUOTE (Bas Cuthach @ Mar 31 2015, 11:42 PM) *
but i like my distortion lol ok some minor changes, ya getting that sweet tone is something i have trouble with

Attached File  eye_opener_collab_take_2.mp3 ( 1.13MB ) Number of downloads: 46


with out backing

Attached File  eye_opener_collab_w_o_backing.mp3 ( 1.11MB ) Number of downloads: 44


Thanks Bas - and sorry I missed the soundcloud file from your previous post.

I do think tone is a little better here. However I get the feeling this might be a sound you have dialed in for metal - and it might work much better in that genre ( because more treble is needed to cut through). However for this kind of soft backing it is overkill to have loads of distortion and treble, you can cut through with a much smoother tone.

From a solo construction perspective I think your take is pretty cool. I like the intro which gives electronic vibes. And although you do have a chaos of different lines - I somehow get impression it is a structured chaos and I can hear the music in there and it builds up very nicely. You manage to work yourself to a climax thanks to the repeated line starting at 00:35 - this is not easy to do considering you started of at full throttle. This is a pretty cool and original take.

But again - with a softer tone you would do these musical ideas so much more justice. The music is cool and I would like to listen to it several times but it is just too tiring for my ears.

Fingers crossed you can tweak yourself to a better tone! If you need help, I suggest starting a new topic and tell us what you got in terms of gear and we can hep you make the most out of it. I am anxious to hear what you will accomplish with a better tone!


QUOTE (Monica Gheorghevici @ Apr 1 2015, 11:39 AM) *
You know guys that I always begin by thanking to my amazing instructor Darek because if I do something good it's just because he is a damn brilliant instructor smile.gif

Because all these collabs are a great workout for me, for this improv I had two requests from Darek.
1- to add more gain in tone
2- to use the volume knob. So, for the first half the guitar volume knob it's roll out around the middle position, to catch a warm sound for the soft notes. Then the volume knob it's rolled at a loud position.
Darek knew from the start that this changing of tone will obligate me to think and play in other way (more gain requires a totally different playing to not lose the dynamics). That's why I love my instructor because he always has prepared traps for me smile.gif

Kris: My first approach for this collab had included your shred swing pattern but I failed the take because I chose a wrong place to add that lick. In my stupid mind was a good idea to start in that way biggrin.gif The funny thing is that inside me I had the feeling that something is wrong and Darek will put me to make another take. So.....he did it (hahaha... he made this for 3 times) biggrin.gif Maybe next time I will find the perfect place to use your lick.
Now you will listen my fourth approach. It’s totally different from any point of view: another style, tone, playing, dynamics and composing approach (tension built from the first note until the last note). I really killed my guitar, mind and fingers biggrin.gif

Attached File  The_eye_opening_backing___guitar.mp3 ( 1.1MB ) Number of downloads: 94

Attached File  Guitar_Only.mp3 ( 1.15MB ) Number of downloads: 39


Hehe awesome to hear the collab is making you work hard - four different takes is excellent practice!

And yes I agree this backing might not be optimal for that shred swing thing. I guess the ultimate evidence of that is that I did not use it in my improv (I think) - and I tend to completely overdo that one as soon as I get the chance! ph34r.gif

This one felt more like and improv compared to what I have heard from you before - so big kudos for that. And as an improv, I can not say much more than bravo - please just record a longer version!

If we treat this one more as a constructed take there is some stuff here and there to comment on:

0:14 - this bend is a little off. I get the feeling you reach the target note a little late and pitch is a little off. Same comment for 00:53-00:54

00:38 - the faster note in here feels off timing wise. A bit like unintentional swing. Same comment at 00:44

0:48 - something makes me feel this legato lick needs more practice. I think it might be that you have pretty dynamic sound (which is awesome btw) - and there is a big volume different between hammered and picked notes. You should be able to solve this quite easily by making sure your pick strikes are incredibly soft (while you try to get more power from left hand - the latter is not as easy though).

Other than this - your tone is killer and so is your melodic development - well done!





QUOTE (fzalfa @ Apr 1 2015, 09:29 PM) *
hi here

a brand new recording.



let me know...

thankx

Laurent


YES!!!! MAN this is an improvement, it's subtle oh so subtle but you certainly get it.

In this take you played slightly behind the beat when playing softly and on the beat (or slightly before) when playing loud. Splendid!

You let the phrases dictate the mood and timing, and to me this is what "playing with feeling" is about. It is certainly possible to break down "feel" into elements that can be practiced.

Here is a quick tip to try and take your improv to yet a new level. Keeping all the things we have said so far in mind, try to impose some limitations on yourself.

What I mean by this is that throughout your improv, try to have one section where you only play double stops, one section where you only play horizontally on one single string, another section were you only do string skipping (so don't play on two adjacent strings) etc etc I am sure you can think of your own as well.

The idea is simply to push yourself into new sorts of ideas (through these limitations), and thereby make your take even more versatile and interesting. Go go go go go go go go go!! biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


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