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> Learning Europa, in fact, i try to !
klasaine
post Aug 8 2015, 04:34 PM
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The clean tone is really nice!

But you're rushing the timing on the lines and phrases. This is why I recommend playing along with the Santana version for awhile. The essence of this song is 'laying back'.


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fzalfa
post Aug 8 2015, 06:59 PM
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yes i can play more slowly and laid back

i can try to do this !

stay tuned

Laurent


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Bogdan Radovic
post Aug 8 2015, 10:55 PM
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I think that you are doing a good job learning this song. First of all, I feel that this is a colossal effort and that once you get it down you'll be making a big accomplishment. My suggestion would be to cut the tune down to bite sized chunks. For example first minute and half for example and then work on details. Ken nicely pointed out that you are having a tendency of rushing a bit. Try to be late on purpose. You should be finding a "pocket" for this song just behind the beat. My other suggestion would be to try to emulate the tone Santana uses. He has a lot of sustain in his tone. If you dial in the similar tone you'd be able to get closer to the original recording and pull of some tricks he uses in his playing. Keep going, looking forward to hearing more from you.


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fzalfa
post Aug 9 2015, 10:05 AM
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Hi Bogdan

thanks for listening, and for the advices , this motivate me a lot, cause i feel something strong is changing in my way to do.

so, you are right (as Todd , Gabriel and other), so i decide to do a try ion this way smile.gif

i think can do better about laidback... i must embrace the sense of that

I love this cool and quiet style, this night I slept badly, stuff a try ahead
this morning I try to deliver them, or materialize.

not easy, but I'll get there !! wooden pick is a bit of a handicap of dynamics
but it provides so much heat to the tone ...

there are false notes, some are "required" or failed attempts

So here's the fruit of my torments.

https://soundcloud.com/maxime-bon-3/santan-smooth

at the end, i seem to do some strange stuff.... i'have lost my concentration

Laurent

for those who don"t have an overdose

https://soundcloud.com/maxime-bon-3/santana-smooth-7

i try to play with some arpegio sweeped, it's not mastered, but it start to sound if it not me who play !!

i turn crazy, i can see a lot of new musical opportunities for me, i think i was stucked for a while, but suddently something happend

This post has been edited by fzalfa: Aug 9 2015, 02:53 PM


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fzalfa
post Aug 10 2015, 09:33 AM
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Hi !

No more feedback ?

Laurent


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Bogdan Radovic
post Aug 10 2015, 02:10 PM
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Hi Laurent, I think that you are going in the right direction with playing laid back. Please remind me of your goals related to learning this song? Would you like to go for a full on cover, note for note or to learn the song to play "in your own style", for example using a clean tone like you are in these recordings?

Overall, your performance sounds very solid.

If I were learning this song, at this point I would probably focus on:

- Cutting song to 30 sec sections and learning them perfectly
- Focusing on playing behind the beat (laid back)
- Try to tweak the tone similar to one on the original recording
- Focusing on small details

Now, when listening to your take as a whole - I think there are some technical mistakes holding you back. There are missed notes, noises etc here and there. It might be beneficial to work on some fingering exercises, then exercises involving hammer-on, pull-off and slide actions as well as exercises focusing on hands sync. You could do these in your spare practice time, when you feel up to it (not as something mandatory!) as they will slowly over time help you execute and perform this or any other song a bit easier and cleaner. With your level and style of playing, I think it would be a huge step forward if you would clean it up just a bit and make the phrasing more precise and defined in terms of time and timing (this last advice is general and not related just to this song) because I really like the feeling you have when playing and tone choices in general which are elements really hard to obtain or practice while this other stuff can be improved much easier with practice hours.


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fzalfa
post Aug 10 2015, 03:46 PM
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Hi Bogdan

QUOTE
Please remind me of your goals related to learning this song?


My goal is to play this track (and other) in my own style, iahev start to learn it onto the GMC lesson, i was plan to do a REC with.
now i'm too far fro mthe original one, even if we can reconise it.

on these track i record, i do improvisation, so to make it better, cleaner , like you said, i must work on my technical skill.

i am conscious about this play style request a good skill, and i do not have it now, something is about to grow

QUOTE
I think there are some technical mistakes holding you back


that's why i do exercice adviced from Gabriel and others (you too), but thing aren't easy as they seem to be, and for near 2 years i have learn by myself then i learn a LOTS of bad things, play position, pick handling, legato etc in fact i'm near to have learn everything since i'am here.

maybe i want too much now

QUOTE
There are missed notes, noises etc here and there.


Yes, i search my notes while i play, i sing the melody when i play , it help a lot, but sometime... fingers aren"t a the right place, are at the last limit i change my choice , as i know,doing improvisation is not an improvisation (do you see what i mean ?)

QUOTE
make the phrasing more precise and defined in terms of time and timing


i like to, but how ? from my position i feel like be in front of a wall, i try to, i work everydays some

i feel like a child with a new toys, it's a bit blurry , i feel something want to get out of me... very frustrating.

QUOTE
I really like the feeling you have when playing and tone choices in general which are elements really hard to obtain or practice


thank you to listen and appreciate this ! thanks to other people to take time and comment my works

for today i put Europa in a corner for some time, i started to learn MoonFlower from santana, it seem to take the same way , this change permit me to learn other thing, i'll apply them on Europa later smile.gif

i continue to work on lessons, have fun with creativity workout and be fuck"in happy to start to know my fretboard smile.gif

Laurent


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Aug 10 2015, 06:54 PM
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Hi laurent, you've sent me a video playing Europa and as we are following your progress on this one in this thread, I'll give you my feedback here.


Hi mate, nice to see you playing this one on video. smile.gif

It's interesting to see how you are slowly polishing your playing thanks to the practice of this tune. The melodic sections sound consistent however the faster parts need more work to sound clear and clean. I think that the main problem is hand sync when playing fast alternate picking licks or patterns but this also happens in some legato licks. That's when your licks start to sound as your video looks... "blurry".
To let you identify the moments, this are the exact moments where your playing sounds like that:
00:11
00:39 to 00:50
00:56
01:02
1:24

The other thing that you need o adjust is the note choices. It's ok to play notes that aren't part of the scale but you have to be careful and use them wisely as passing notes to avoid making them sound as "errors". I note this problem around 00:25, 00:31, 1:36, 1:38.

Another two things to have in mind are:

- Many licks sound with unwanted extra sounds that make it sound noisy. Try to mute the strings that you are not playing while you play, and also be sure to mute the previous note when a new one is played.

- I'd like to hear less notes, simpler but more defined phrases.

This two things will also help to make your playing sounds more defined and less "blury" as I commented previously.

That's all by now, I hope that this comments help during the next days of practice.



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fzalfa
post Aug 10 2015, 08:56 PM
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yes theses part as blurry as my cam was (but it might be more diificult to solve the issue )

so i think (and be sure of) i must work on hand sync and on legato pull of and hamering....

about notes flow, do you try my last records ?

in any case, i take care about your advices and try to apply them !

thankx you for watching smile.gif

Laurent


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Bogdan Radovic
post Aug 10 2015, 10:14 PM
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Hi Laurent, I've read your reply and I agree with you and just would like to add that you are doing a great job from what I was following from you here so far. Some things take time to settle and you should always look from the positive side at things you need to do to get there. With this tune here, it will be a really cool accomplishment to polish up all the details we discussed over time as that will surely mean you've made it to the next level. The higher you go, the more fun things become but at any level you should work on what inspires you so if you get in a rut with one tune, switch to the next one and allow some time to pass. The ultimate goal with guitar is to always have fun as that will ensure progress and signify you are on the right path. Looking forward to following your guitar journey! smile.gif


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fzalfa
post Apr 13 2016, 10:49 PM
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Hi

I have don a little try to this track, once again, because i really love it and i like to see how i can progress on this one.

i do not try to play like Carlos, play it the way i love it. i only done an improvisation

https://soundcloud.com/laurent-377054242/santana-europa

what is you mind since the last take ?

edit:
after re ear it again, i think i can do better.....

edit:
i have done a hammer pull/off only take..... bends are weird a sample

https://soundcloud.com/laurent-377054242/europa-hammer

Laurent

This post has been edited by fzalfa: Apr 14 2016, 11:40 AM


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fzalfa
post Jun 18 2016, 07:58 PM
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Hi

i have done another take of this track, i regulary do a record of it, this permit me to see some progression or not. it act like a reference for my skill.

still some errors but it sound cool ;D



cheers

Laurent


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 18 2016, 08:06 PM
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Just gave this another listen and I wanted to say how impressed I am by your work here. I can still remember back when we first started working together in vid chat. You have made HUGE progress and this vid is the proof. You are really playing well here and it's just the start of your journey smile.gif I look forward to seeing great things come from all your practice!!

Todd



QUOTE (fzalfa @ Jun 18 2016, 02:58 PM) *
Hi

i have done another take of this track, i regulary do a record of it, this permit me to see some progression or not. it act like a reference for my skill.

still some errors but it sound cool ;D



cheers

Laurent


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verciazghra
post Jun 28 2016, 03:56 PM
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Very much liked this all. Got no feedback. Well done Laurent.


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