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> Timing Workout
Daeron
post May 11 2015, 06:01 PM
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Thank you, Gabriel. I'll continue working on timing, of course, and I'll wait for the next assignment ! smile.gif
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Phil66
post May 11 2015, 07:25 PM
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I think I've worked out part of my timing issue. It may be a tricky one to fix though. Is hard to explain but I'll try.

My picking hand and foot/head mimic each other. Now this may sound good in theory but, if you think about it, when my for his the floor my pick should hit the string but in my case, the downward movement of my hand stops when my foot hits the floor and starts rising exactly with my foot. Now if you think about that, it means that the string has been hit before my foot has hit the floor. It's as though there is a solid rod connecting my foot and hand and the string sits somewhere around the middle of the stroke.

I hope this make sense. Has anyone got any ideas how to fix this bad habit? There was an interview that I stumbled across in my car recently on BBC Radio 4. The person being interview was the legendary Carol Kaye. She was talking about working with a metronome, she said "When you can'thear the metronome then you've got good time, if you can still had the metronome then you don't have good time". Maybe I should add some metronome practice to my list.

If you want to hear the very interesting program you can listen HERE the bit about the timing is at 22:30. To listen, once the link has opened, click the icon in the bottom left corner of the picture. It really is worth a listen, very interesting, it's mainly a historical documentary about so there isn't much about technique etc but still very interesting. Also a full documentary on YouTube HERE

Sorry to go off topic but I remembered this radio program while I was writing this post and thought I should share it, here seemed as good place as any cool.gif

Cheers

Phil

This post has been edited by Phil66: May 11 2015, 07:42 PM


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petr
post May 11 2015, 10:52 PM
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Hi Gab,
pls check my attempts

https://soundcloud.com/petr-14/tw4

https://soundcloud.com/petr-14/tw8

tx Petr
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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 12 2015, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 11 2015, 03:25 PM) *
I think I've worked out part of my timing issue. It may be a tricky one to fix though. Is hard to explain but I'll try.

My picking hand and foot/head mimic each other. Now this may sound good in theory but, if you think about it, when my for his the floor my pick should hit the string but in my case, the downward movement of my hand stops when my foot hits the floor and starts rising exactly with my foot. Now if you think about that, it means that the string has been hit before my foot has hit the floor. It's as though there is a solid rod connecting my foot and hand and the string sits somewhere around the middle of the stroke.

I hope this make sense. Has anyone got any ideas how to fix this bad habit? There was an interview that I stumbled across in my car recently on BBC Radio 4. The person being interview was the legendary Carol Kaye. She was talking about working with a metronome, she said "When you can'thear the metronome then you've got good time, if you can still had the metronome then you don't have good time". Maybe I should add some metronome practice to my list.

If you want to hear the very interesting program you can listen HERE the bit about the timing is at 22:30. To listen, once the link has opened, click the icon in the bottom left corner of the picture. It really is worth a listen, very interesting, it's mainly a historical documentary about so there isn't much about technique etc but still very interesting. Also a full documentary on YouTube HERE

Sorry to go off topic but I remembered this radio program while I was writing this post and thought I should share it, here seemed as good place as any cool.gif

Cheers

Phil



Hi Phil, thanks for the links! I'll check the radio program later. About your question, and well, I think that you've already answered yourself. You need some metronome work but what it's even more important, you need to slow down and practice at a tempo in which you can isolate both hand and foot and think on each at the same time. This is not possible at fast tempos, but you'll find a slow tempo that allows you to think on the movements of both parts of your body and make them do what you want, not what they want. After some time, maybe days of work, this will become natural and you'll be able to do it at faster tempos.

Does it make sense?



QUOTE (petr @ May 11 2015, 06:52 PM) *



Hi Petr! Great work with this! Your 4th notes are totally tight, and your 8th notes are also really good! There is just a little room to make your 8th notes even tighter so some more days of practice can work.

Also, it would be good if you practice 8th notes but using random notes from the scale. It's a good experiment to see if changing notes as a distraction affects your timing.


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Phil66
post May 12 2015, 08:50 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 12 2015, 08:32 PM) *
Hi Phil, thanks for the links! I'll check the radio program later. About your question, and well, I think that you've already answered yourself. You need some metronome work but what it's even more important, you need to slow down and practice at a tempo in which you can isolate both hand and foot and think on each at the same time. This is not possible at fast tempos, but you'll find a slow tempo that allows you to think on the movements of both parts of your body and make them do what you want, not what they want. After some time, maybe days of work, this will become natural and you'll be able to do it at faster tempos.

Does it make sense?


Thanks Gab, it makes perfect sense. Enjoy the radio program and also the youtube one if you have time. Very very interesting smile.gif


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Chris S.
post May 13 2015, 01:34 AM
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Hey Gab - sorry for the delay!!

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/timing-lesson-one-take-one

Triplets are going to be the death of me dry.gif tongue.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 13 2015, 04:02 PM
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Hi Chris, 4th and 8th notes are sounding really good on that take. Triplets not, so it would be good to hear your playing only triplets over the backing to see if the problem are the triplets or just going from 8th to triplets.


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Chris S.
post May 13 2015, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 13 2015, 03:02 PM) *
Hi Chris, 4th and 8th notes are sounding really good on that take. Triplets not, so it would be good to hear your playing only triplets over the backing to see if the problem are the triplets or just going from 8th to triplets.


I get that a lot!!! wink.gif tongue.gif

Here is just triplets:

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/timing-lesson-triplets


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Phil66
post May 13 2015, 09:09 PM
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OK, I haven't had much practice since I got back from Spain, been catching up with work rolleyes.gif

Anyway here is a quick take, I played a mix of 4th, 8th and 4th triplets (I think unsure.gif )

I'll be getting stuck into my routine again now.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/acdc-mixed-notes-and-triplets

Cheers Gab



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Chris S.
post May 13 2015, 09:44 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 13 2015, 08:09 PM) *
OK, I haven't had much practice since I got back from Spain, been catching up with work rolleyes.gif

Anyway here is a quick take, I played a mix of 4th, 8th and 4th triplets (I think unsure.gif )

I'll be getting stuck into my routine again now.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/acdc-mixed-notes-and-triplets

Cheers Gab

Hey Phil!

Just curious (not to get off topic) but how was Spain?


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 14 2015, 04:48 PM
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QUOTE (Chris S. @ May 13 2015, 02:04 PM) *
I get that a lot!!! wink.gif tongue.gif

Here is just triplets:

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/timing-lesson-triplets



Well, this sounds much better! There is still room to make the triplets sound tighter but this sounds ok, just keep on practicing triplets over the next backings. The main problem could be when you have to switch from 4th or 8th notes to triplets, so working on something like this could work:

Attached Image
Attached File  Timing_exercise.gp5 ( 2.61K ) Number of downloads: 50


QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 13 2015, 05:09 PM) *
OK, I haven't had much practice since I got back from Spain, been catching up with work rolleyes.gif

Anyway here is a quick take, I played a mix of 4th, 8th and 4th triplets (I think unsure.gif )

I'll be getting stuck into my routine again now.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/acdc-mixed-notes-and-triplets

Cheers Gab



Hi Phil, the problem here are triplets so the next task is to play only triplets over the whole backing to see if you can play them tight. Ok?



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Chris S.
post May 14 2015, 05:06 PM
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Thanks for that, Gab! I just gave that lesson a shot and my mind is already about to explode tongue.gif

Switching between the 8ths and triplets is going to be a fun challenge.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 14 2015, 05:10 PM
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Cool! My idea was to explode your mind... tongue.gif

hahaha you can use the guitar pro to practice along with the rhythms and change tempo.


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Phil66
post May 14 2015, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (Chris S. @ May 13 2015, 09:44 PM) *
Hey Phil!

Just curious (not to get off topic) but how was Spain?


It was brilliant, I love Andalucia and I think I have found my spiritual home in Nerja. We went last year and on our return this year, it was like going home, I felt totally at peace with the old town.

Thanks for asking. smile.gif

Thanks Gab,

Ok, I found this really hard. I'm ok with the metronome but terrible with the backing, I don't play all the way through on this piece but I was hoping if you could give me some tips to stop me going way off time. It happens at the same point on the backing every time.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/triplets

Cheers


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 15 2015, 04:56 PM
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Hi Phil, yeah, you are not playing the triplets tight. The problem here is that drums are not going in triplets so it is more difficult to keep this rhythm without any other instrument following you. However this is something that happens a lot when we are soloing on rock and blues. Phrases usually incorporate triplets combined with other note values.

You said that you can play triplets tight with metronome, so the problem is exactly be able to play triplets over a binary backing. The first exercise that you should do is to be able to think the rhythm and sing it over the backing. So, this is what you will do:

- Play and listen to the backing track. Close your eyes, and try to imagine triplets sounding over it. The 4th notes beat must be your guitar for the first triplet of each group of 3. Try to focus on it instead of the 8th notes hi hat.
- Once you can think it, sing it. Sing the triplets over the backing for a while.
- After 5 minutes of thinking and singing the rhythm, pick up your guitar and try to do it for 5 minutes.
- After 5 minutes of practice, repeat the whole process.

Do this every day, 2 or 3 times per day. Record a new take in 4 days and share it here.



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Phil66
post May 15 2015, 05:44 PM
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Thanks Gab,

I'll do my best. smile.gif


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Daeron
post May 16 2015, 09:43 PM
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Hello Gabriel


I am working on the timing exercice (Guitar Pro) that you gave in an earlier message and it's interesting. I was working something like this but with one measure of each. In your exercice there are mixed triplets with 8th notes and triplet with 16th notes.

And that makes me wonder how to play triplets... I explain !
With a measure of triplets only, I play : down-up-down / up-down-up / down-up-down / up-down-up and I'm ready for the next mesure with my pick to down. But when I mix 8th notes with triplets, I have a problem : down-up / down-up-down / and then should I play up-down or down-up ? Normally, I think it should be down-up with a strict alternate picking. I'll not work this until your answer, I don't want to learn a bad thing.
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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 18 2015, 04:24 PM
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Hi Daeron, that's a very clever question.

The answer is not exact since there is not an unique way to do it. This depends on many things, the tempo you are playing, the dynamics you want to get, and also your own style. As this is an exercise it's ok to work on this one using strictly alternate picking technique so you would be starting groups of 4 16 notes with upstrokes and things like that. This will make this a very good exercise for your right hand too.

In a musical situation it can happen that you decide to combine alternate picking with only downstrokes or even economy picking in order to get different dynamics and intentions in your playing.

So, as the great Petrucci suggests, the best is to be able to play the same lick with different techniques and picking combinations. This will allow express yourself smoother.





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Annemie
post May 18 2015, 08:21 PM
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Hi Gab,

I did the exercise you suggested in the rec-zone. Here is my attempt with Quarter notes

Attached File  AC_DC_Quarter.mp3 ( 1.19MB ) Number of downloads: 71


and another atempt with eight notes

Attached File  AC_DC_Eight.mp3 ( 1.19MB ) Number of downloads: 63


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Daeron
post May 19 2015, 07:30 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 18 2015, 03:24 PM) *
The answer is not exact since there is not an unique way to do it. This depends on many things, the tempo you are playing, the dynamics you want to get, and also your own style. As this is an exercise it's ok to work on this one using strictly alternate picking technique so you would be starting groups of 4 16 notes with upstrokes and things like that. This will make this a very good exercise for your right hand too.

In a musical situation it can happen that you decide to combine alternate picking with only downstrokes or even economy picking in order to get different dynamics and intentions in your playing.


Thank you for your answer, Gabriel ! So, using strictly alternate picking technique, I should play the 8th notes with triplets like that : down-up / down-up-down / down-up / down-up-down. Isn't it ?

I understand what you tell about combining techniques in order to change the sound and dynamics.
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