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bleez
post Jun 24 2015, 09:03 AM
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needing a bit of help with this tone. I dont know what Im lacking to get it more like Chris'. Accepting the fact that Im not in the same league playing wise. Im not sure what the correct terminology is but the tone in the lesson is way tighter, maybe brighter? its like glass. my tone is kinda nasel in comparison, almost like ive got a wah slightly cocked. my tone is looser and more 'woofy' thats a word, right?
I dunno what im talking about! Why is my tone more ass-like in comparison?

*excuse my dodgy playing
https://soundcloud.com/bleez666/bend-tone


the target tone

any help would be appreciated


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dcz702
post Jun 24 2015, 11:31 AM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jun 24 2015, 08:03 AM) *
needing a bit of help with this tone. I dont know what Im lacking to get it more like Chris'. Accepting the fact that Im not in the same league playing wise. Im not sure what the correct terminology is but the tone in the lesson is way tighter, maybe brighter? its like glass. my tone is kinda nasel in comparison, almost like ive got a wah slightly cocked. my tone is looser and more 'woofy' thats a word, right?
I dunno what im talking about! Why is my tone more ass-like in comparison?

*excuse my dodgy playing
https://soundcloud.com/bleez666/bend-tone


the target tone

any help would be appreciated

When I posted the reply to the last video I did I said I was using a graphic EQ, I was wrong I been using the studio EQ.
I know what you mean by glassy I think. You mean the higher notes sound like they ring more clearly without the lows drowning it all out? Cause that's how I would describe what I've been trying to accomplish with getting a good EQ and hearing the notes stand out clearly.
The studio EQ has 3 knobs, and 2 drop down menus to chose frequencies for high and low. I play along with whatever I'm trying to match tones with and I mess with the frequencies to find something that's getting closer, then when I'm happy with my choice I fine tune it with the gain knob for both high and low. Then I adjust the overall gain. Of course I mess with the amp settings to, but not as much as the EQ. Also I been sticking with the sm57 and 87 condenser mic.
While messing with the gain knob of the studio EQ you can add highs to come through and take away the low end or add some to make it all sound even.
I don't know if I'm doing this right or if my explanation makes sense blink.gif but that's the best way I can put it as I, new to this to. wink.gif

This post has been edited by dcz702: Jun 24 2015, 11:34 AM
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Monica Gheorghev...
post Jun 24 2015, 03:38 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jun 24 2015, 08:03 AM) *
needing a bit of help with this tone. I dont know what Im lacking to get it more like Chris'. Accepting the fact that Im not in the same league playing wise. Im not sure what the correct terminology is but the tone in the lesson is way tighter, maybe brighter? its like glass. my tone is kinda nasel in comparison, almost like ive got a wah slightly cocked. my tone is looser and more 'woofy' thats a word, right?
I dunno what im talking about! Why is my tone more ass-like in comparison?

*excuse my dodgy playing
https://soundcloud.com/bleez666/bend-tone


the target tone

any help would be appreciated

You have right and Chris has a brighter tone. Anyway you will have a difference in tone because of different guitars and pickups. Chris play on a Fender Standard Tele and from the start he already have that brightness in sound. Also he used that Way Huge Supa Puss analog delay which sound very cool and make the tone sound more "opened". In Guitar Rig it's easy to replace this pedal, making a combination between Psichedelay and Vintage Verb. Also in this way you will get a warm tone.

Your tone it's not bad at all but has that "like in the box" sound for this lesson. I don't know how to explain better but it's a little dry, doesn’t have enough air (comparing with the lesson).
You used in The Eye Opening collab a very cool tone that I love it, which had that "open" sound that I am talking about. I would try to go on the similar idea of settings. Also I would tweak more with delay and reverb for this lesson wink.gif
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bleez
post Jun 24 2015, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE (dcz702 @ Jun 24 2015, 11:31 AM) *
I don't know if I'm doing this right or if my explanation makes sense blink.gif but that's the best way I can put it as I, new to this to. wink.gif

yeah, makes sense dude smile.gif Ive been going round in circles with the EQs and frequencies blink.gif the sm57 and 87 condenser are the mics I tend to favour as well, they do sound kinda cool. I'll experiment with the studio eq, see how it goes smile.gif

QUOTE (Monica Gheorghevici @ Jun 24 2015, 03:38 PM) *
You have right and Chris has a brighter tone. Anyway you will have a difference in tone because of different guitars and pickups. Chris play on a Fender Standard Tele and from the start he already have that brightness in sound. Also he used that Way Huge Supa Puss analog delay which sound very cool and make the tone sound more "opened". In Guitar Rig it's easy to replace this pedal, making a combination between Psichedelay and Vintage Verb. Also in this way you will get a warm tone.

Your tone it's not bad at all but has that "like in the box" sound for this lesson. I don't know how to explain better but it's a little dry, doesn’t have enough air (comparing with the lesson).
You used in The Eye Opening collab a very cool tone that I love it, which had that "open" sound that I am talking about. I would try to go on the similar idea of settings. Also I would tweak more with delay and reverb for this lesson wink.gif

Thanks Monica. Totally agree about that reverb, the one in the lesson is fantastic. I think I have a vintage style one, I will experiment with it.


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 25 2015, 01:18 AM
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Perhaps a pinch of "room tone" E.G. Sudio/Room Reverb and then a bit of bass cut before the primary gain stage? Can you put an EQ of some sort before you get to the overdrive/amp stage? Trimming bass before the gain stage will keep it from being boomy and make it sing a bit more and then you can eq bass on top of the signal during the amplifier stage and after it as well. Also, perhaps a bit of a bump on your treble at any point in the chain.


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bleez
post Jun 25 2015, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 25 2015, 01:18 AM) *
Perhaps a pinch of "room tone" E.G. Sudio/Room Reverb and then a bit of bass cut before the primary gain stage? Can you put an EQ of some sort before you get to the overdrive/amp stage? Trimming bass before the gain stage will keep it from being boomy and make it sing a bit more and then you can eq bass on top of the signal during the amplifier stage and after it as well. Also, perhaps a bit of a bump on your treble at any point in the chain.


yes, I can put eq before the amp although Im not 100% sure which one is best for cutting the bass. Here is the chain after I made a couple of changes based on what Monica and DCZ suggested, I basically added in an analogue delay and the studio eq ( not that I know how to work it! )

Attached Image

which is - gate- para eq- studio eq - amp - spring reverb - room reverb - analogue delay

it sounds like this -
https://soundcloud.com/bleez666/tonetest

Im actually using my Sweet Cream overdrive pedal before the pod ( guitar > pedal > pod ) but I can add it into the effects loop and place it anywhere if necessary.


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 25 2015, 09:39 PM
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One tip, for the PRE EQ, maybe set the frequency down a bit. It looks like it's set to 500 Hz. Try to take it down to 300 or 250. Then play with how much cut you need by playing solo type licks on the lower strings and use a bit of palm mute. If it sounds muddy/boomy, reduce the percentage (not the frequency knob) a bit more til it sounds "tight".

Then increase the bass on the AMP so that it still sounds "warm" and "full" This should tighten the sound a bit and allow the "singing" quality once you apply a bit of compression (before the amp) and a bit of overdrive (before the amp as well). Let me know how that goes wink.gif


QUOTE (bleez @ Jun 25 2015, 02:55 PM) *
yes, I can put eq before the amp although Im not 100% sure which one is best for cutting the bass. Here is the chain after I made a couple of changes based on what Monica and DCZ suggested, I basically added in an analogue delay and the studio eq ( not that I know how to work it! )

Attached Image

which is - gate- para eq- studio eq - amp - spring reverb - room reverb - analogue delay

it sounds like this -
https://soundcloud.com/bleez666/tonetest

Im actually using my Sweet Cream overdrive pedal before the pod ( guitar > pedal > pod ) but I can add it into the effects loop and place it anywhere if necessary.



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Monica Gheorghev...
post Jun 26 2015, 05:53 AM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jun 25 2015, 06:55 PM) *
https://soundcloud.com/bleez666/tonetest

Im actually using my Sweet Cream overdrive pedal before the pod ( guitar > pedal > pod ) but I can add it into the effects loop and place it anywhere if necessary.

Now you have that "opened" sound and I like this very much wink.gif But...we need to think more because still isn't similar with the lesson.
One question: It’s possible in pod HD500x when you choose the amp, cab and mic model to choose the position for the microphone?
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bleez
post Jun 26 2015, 07:04 AM
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QUOTE (Monica Gheorghevici @ Jun 26 2015, 05:53 AM) *
Now you have that "opened" sound and I like this very much wink.gif But...we need to think more because still isn't similar with the lesson.
One question: It’s possible in pod HD500x when you choose the amp, cab and mic model to choose the position for the microphone?

I agree, the delay still needs tweaked. I will try some of the other delays to see if they are better.
I dont think its possible to choose the position of the mic. I cant find an option for that. There are some cab edit options which Ive not yet tried ( (Low Frequency Cut, Resolution Level, Thump, & Decay) there is also and ' early reflections' switch to add more reflective room sound..... I still need to experiment with those because I have no idea how they effect the tone blink.gif


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dcz702
post Jun 26 2015, 07:53 AM
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I never tried putting eq before the amp I though typically it would go right after the amp and that how I been using it. I haven't been using more than one eq, to keep the tone simple and not get overwhelmed with knobs. Also I use reverb last in the chain. There is also a effects loop you can add in the chain haven't used it yet though. Curious on why you chose to use 2 reverbs.
Do you know if placing effects after the amp would mean they are in the effects loop?
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bleez
post Jun 26 2015, 08:29 AM
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QUOTE (dcz702 @ Jun 26 2015, 07:53 AM) *
I never tried putting eq before the amp I though typically it would go right after the amp and that how I been using it. I haven't been using more than one eq, to keep the tone simple and not get overwhelmed with knobs. Also I use reverb last in the chain. There is also a effects loop you can add in the chain haven't used it yet though. Curious on why you chose to use 2 reverbs.
Do you know if placing effects after the amp would mean they are in the effects loop?


I had been reading through that site that todd posted a while back about the EQ's. The guy there talked about how he stacked a graphic EQ before the amp and a different one ( studio or para, cant remember ) after the amp. I had been playing around with that idea. I wound up trying them both before.
The reverb was the same kinda thing, just experimenting with stacking them to see how they sound.
I tried the FX loop with a couple of overdrive pedals and put them just after the gate but I couldnt really notice a difference in tone between that and having them before the pod. Ive yet to try my wah pedal in the fx loop.


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dcz702
post Jun 26 2015, 09:32 AM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jun 26 2015, 07:29 AM) *
I had been reading through that site that todd posted a while back about the EQ's. The guy there talked about how he stacked a graphic EQ before the amp and a different one ( studio or para, cant remember ) after the amp. I had been playing around with that idea. I wound up trying them both before.
The reverb was the same kinda thing, just experimenting with stacking them to see how they sound.
I tried the FX loop with a couple of overdrive pedals and put them just after the gate but I couldnt really notice a difference in tone between that and having them before the pod. Ive yet to try my wah pedal in the fx loop.

If anything I would put the reverb and delays in the loop,or was it a echo you were using. Either way those would probably do best in the loop. With overdrive being in front of the amp.
But we got gear we both don't understand fully so experimenting would work to. wink.gif
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bleez
post Jun 26 2015, 10:30 AM
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QUOTE (dcz702 @ Jun 26 2015, 09:32 AM) *
If anything I would put the reverb and delays in the loop,or was it a echo you were using. Either way those would probably do best in the loop. With overdrive being in front of the amp.
But we got gear we both don't understand fully so experimenting would work to. wink.gif

LOL! Totally!

when you say put the reverb / delay in the loop..... how would I do that ph34r.gif is that between the amp and the mixer? sorry, im being embarrassingly dumb here.


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dcz702
post Jun 26 2015, 12:56 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jun 26 2015, 09:30 AM) *
LOL! Totally!

when you say put the reverb / delay in the loop..... how would I do that ph34r.gif is that between the amp and the mixer? sorry, im being embarrassingly dumb here.

No your not.
In the fx loop is what I'm not sure about with this unit. From the user interface I assume that everything after the amp is in the fx loop, but what confuses me is there is a fx loop to pick that can be added to the chain.
And typically fx like reverb delay and chorus would go in the loop, and od phase wha compressors would go before that amps Input

This post has been edited by dcz702: Jun 26 2015, 12:57 PM
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bleez
post Jun 26 2015, 01:17 PM
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QUOTE (dcz702 @ Jun 26 2015, 12:56 PM) *
No your not.
In the fx loop is what I'm not sure about with this unit. From the user interface I assume that everything after the amp is in the fx loop, but what confuses me is there is a fx loop to pick that can be added to the chain.
And typically fx like reverb delay and chorus would go in the loop, and od phase wha compressors would go before that amps Input

Ah! I see what you mean. the fx loop which is selectable is for external pedals. basically there are send/return inputs on the front of the unit, so you can plug in any external pedals here and they are then automatically associated to that selectable fx loop. you can then use this fx block to place your pedals anywhere in the chain.
its kinda cool smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 26 2015, 02:16 PM
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Putting an eq before the amp is an old trick to keep the tone from getting boomy if you are planning on playing some stuff that requires a semi delicate and articulate pick response. Tube amps and tube amp sims tend to "bunch up" in the low frequencies (bass) very quickly and the issue gets worse the more gain you add.

By reducing the lows before the gain stage, you can keep the sound "tight" and add more gain than you otherwise could have without losing the articulate pick response. Then you add bass back at the amp and post amp stage to "warm" the overal tone.

It effects the entire so so the loop is part of it wink.gif



QUOTE (dcz702 @ Jun 26 2015, 02:53 AM) *
I never tried putting eq before the amp I though typically it would go right after the amp and that how I been using it. I haven't been using more than one eq, to keep the tone simple and not get overwhelmed with knobs. Also I use reverb last in the chain. There is also a effects loop you can add in the chain haven't used it yet though. Curious on why you chose to use 2 reverbs.
Do you know if placing effects after the amp would mean they are in the effects loop?



Stacking Parametric EQs before the amp is a trick I use quite a bit on my 11 rack smile.gif Sometimes it takes 2 eqs to shape the tone the way you want it. You always have eq on the amp to shape the final sound. I'm very glad to see you are experimenting with PRE EQ as it's a technique that not everyone knows about or uses.


QUOTE (bleez @ Jun 26 2015, 03:29 AM) *
I had been reading through that site that todd posted a while back about the EQ's. The guy there talked about how he stacked a graphic EQ before the amp and a different one ( studio or para, cant remember ) after the amp. I had been playing around with that idea. I wound up trying them both before.
The reverb was the same kinda thing, just experimenting with stacking them to see how they sound.
I tried the FX loop with a couple of overdrive pedals and put them just after the gate but I couldnt really notice a difference in tone between that and having them before the pod. Ive yet to try my wah pedal in the fx loop.



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