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> Rec Grading Tweaks #2
Phil66
post Jun 9 2015, 09:50 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jun 9 2015, 09:40 PM) *
I do think he would complain on this - it's only about the arguments you point when trying to leave the lesson.


Sorry, can you please explain this, I don't understand. Maybe something lost in translation smile.gif


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Darius Wave
post Jun 9 2015, 10:44 PM
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Sorry...tried to write too fast smile.gif

I think he wouldn't complain on your idea to abandon a lesson as long, as your arguments would be valid smile.gif


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Monica Gheorghev...
post Jun 9 2015, 10:48 PM
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@: Darek - Great video, You have right with all you said. Actually we had this discussion about REC section two weeks ago. I remember that I said to you that I would love even a separately REC section where I can put my takes for a real grading. Seems that my wish became true smile.gif
It's a change for both parts students/instructors. I personally hardly wait to put my takes in REC smile.gif

@: Phil I cried two weeks (I'm not kidding) because I had to quit at a lesson (Hybrid Blues) because I didn't was able to play very fast the last 10 seconds. I can't say in words how much I worked with Darek for that lesson and to learn every tiny detail. For me was a huge tragedy because was my dream to finish a 6 level lesson. I was disappointed by me and I will never forgive myself until I will not finish that lesson.
But... it was the moment to make a pause from that lesson because I was so stressed that I start to not be able to compose something. I have the luck that Darek knows me very well, stopped me and explained me how to see the things. He put me to work at another lesson.
Guess what, I realized that all I learned from that hard lesson are very good fixed in my mind and hands. Also I already apply those things in my normal playing. I swear, the lesson that I love very much and changed completely my playing is exactly the lesson that I wasn't able to finish it. I learned more technical stuff and I catch a huge confidence in playing things that in the past I thought there are very hard to play.
To work at Hybrid Blues was the best thing that I ever made even if i didn't finished the lesson smile.gif

This post has been edited by Monica Gheorghevici: Jun 9 2015, 11:03 PM
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Phil66
post Jun 10 2015, 06:42 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jun 9 2015, 10:44 PM) *
Sorry...tried to write too fast smile.gif

I think he wouldn't complain on your idea to abandon a lesson as long, as your arguments would be valid smile.gif


Ahh. Got it. Thanks smile.gif


QUOTE (Monica Gheorghevici @ Jun 9 2015, 10:48 PM) *
@: Phil I cried two weeks (I'm not kidding) because I had to quit at a lesson (Hybrid Blues) because I didn't was able to play very fast the last 10 seconds. I can't say in words how much I worked with Darek for that lesson and to learn every tiny detail. For me was a huge tragedy because was my dream to finish a 6 level lesson. I was disappointed by me and I will never forgive myself until I will not finish that lesson.
But... it was the moment to make a pause from that lesson because I was so stressed that I start to not be able to compose something. I have the luck that Darek knows me very well, stopped me and explained me how to see the things. He put me to work at another lesson.
Guess what, I realized that all I learned from that hard lesson are very good fixed in my mind and hands. Also I already apply those things in my normal playing. I swear, the lesson that I love very much and changed completely my playing is exactly the lesson that I wasn't able to finish it. I learned more technical stuff and I catch a huge confidence in playing things that in the past I thought there are very hard to play.
To work at Hybrid Blues was the best thing that I ever made even if i didn't finished the lesson smile.gif


Thanks Monica,

That has inspired me to have more tenacity.

Cheers

Phil


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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 10 2015, 08:21 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jun 9 2015, 10:38 PM) *
I agree but sometimes it can be demoralising and if the music in the lesson isn't really your cup of tea it makes it harder to persist. I had it recently with Gab's Fu Manchu lesson. I just couldn't get past a certain bar and I actually found myself regressing. I felt awful asking Gab if I could try something else sad.gif

Thanks again.


My general thinking is to always prioritise what is fun / stimulating - in other I words I move on when I get bored with whatever I am practicing/learning. Because I know that as long as I spend time with the guitar, I will be progressing.

However there are many exceptions to this. And personally I get obsessed with things I don't master. So this actually makes it enjoyable for me to persist.

However if you are just starting out you may not realise the purpose of persisting with some uninspiring/boring exercises.

So my advice would be to play safe - and try to do a little bit of that kind of stuff - but always make make sure the majority of your practicing time is spent playing/practicing things you enjoy.

So to apply this thinking to the REC discussion, you could revisit old REC lessons once in a while (or maybe for 10-15 minutes before you start practicing a new lesson). However - banging your head against an old REC lesson which you are sick to death of - is not a fruitful thing to do IMO.


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Phil66
post Jun 10 2015, 08:56 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 10 2015, 08:21 AM) *
However - banging your head against an old REC lesson which you are sick to death of - is not a fruitful thing to do IMO.


Agreed but imagine the satisfaction of going back to something you struggled with and finding it pretty simple. We don't really notice ourselves improving just as a child doesn't really notice themselves getting taller. If we played something with ease that used to be hard a few months ago, that would really show in real terms how much you have improved.

On your obsession thing, I too get obsessed and sometimes my time has run out and I've been trying to nail the same four bars for 90 minutes laugh.gif

Cheers


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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 10 2015, 09:10 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jun 10 2015, 09:56 AM) *
On your obsession thing, I too get obsessed and sometimes my time has run out and I've been trying to nail the same four bars for 90 minutes laugh.gif


Hehe and its worth it, because you learn so much more than just the licks. The timing, feel, execution, details (etc etc) - can be applied to anything you play onwards. That is why it is so rewarding to spend a lot of time with just a short section of music.


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Huargo
post Jun 10 2015, 02:13 PM
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Hi!
Totally agree with this changes in the rec zone! I think rec program works if it's totally objective and stricted.
I had some rec takes aproved but not really nailed smile.gif
Ok but let's gonna talk abut safe zones in guitar masterclass, Sometimes students don't wanna be grade, only share his Music and i see instructors making apointments to improve the Music but this can be really intimidating to beginers to share his music. I really wants to see lot of people sharing his Music here just for fun.
It's great to have feedback of a instructor but it shouldn't be necesary all the time, more studens interaction will be great!
Only and idea smile.gif




Thanks

This post has been edited by Huargo: Jun 10 2015, 03:28 PM


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Fran
post Jun 10 2015, 07:34 PM
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I believe REC is all about challenging yourself and getting pro advice from our instructors. A failed lesson is only a "fail" if you learn nothing from your mistakes, as much as a "pass" would mean nothing if you didn't learn to achieve it.

Having said that, hope to see more and more REC takes than ever, no matter the grades, you will be getting better and better.


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Phil66
post Jun 10 2015, 08:45 PM
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Just watched that video again, brilliant, puts me at ease about posting. Would it be annoying to judges if we posted a REC knowing that it's not good enough to pass but in order to get extra opinions to those from our mentor? I've always waited until my mentor (Gab, or before that Cosmin) told me to try it in the REC as it may pass. I would worry about offending my mentor if I posted without Gab saying to do it, I wouldn't want him to think I did not value his opinion. I hope this makes sense and you understand where I am coming from. smile.gif

Cheers


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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 10 2015, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (Huargo @ Jun 10 2015, 03:13 PM) *
Ok but let's gonna talk abut safe zones in guitar masterclass, Sometimes students don't wanna be grade, only share his Music and i see instructors making apointments to improve the Music but this can be really intimidating to beginers to share his music. I really wants to see lot of people sharing his Music here just for fun.
It's great to have feedback of a instructor but it shouldn't be necesary all the time, more studens interaction will be great!
Only and idea smile.gif


Agreed - that's a different kind of feedback but its also needed. Do you have any suggestion on how we can get more students to submit their recordings (outside of REC board)?

QUOTE (Fran @ Jun 10 2015, 08:34 PM) *
I believe REC is all about challenging yourself and getting pro advice from our instructors. A failed lesson is only a "fail" if you learn nothing from your mistakes, as much as a "pass" would mean nothing if you didn't learn to achieve it.

Having said that, hope to see more and more REC takes than ever, no matter the grades, you will be getting better and better.


Wise words Fran, that is the whole purpose of REC. The grade is of little importance, its what you take with you that matters.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jun 10 2015, 09:45 PM) *
Just watched that video again, brilliant, puts me at ease about posting. Would it be annoying to judges if we posted a REC knowing that it's not good enough to pass but in order to get extra opinions to those from our mentor? I've always waited until my mentor (Gab, or before that Cosmin) told me to try it in the REC as it may pass. I would worry about offending my mentor if I posted without Gab saying to do it, I wouldn't want him to think I did not value his opinion. I hope this makes sense and you understand where I am coming from. smile.gif

Cheers


I think it's up to the student to decide when to submit to REC, ie when you feel it will be beneficial for you. Perhaps you are stuck, feeling uninspired, need a second opinion etc. I don't think Gab would mind.


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Phil66
post Jun 10 2015, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 10 2015, 09:08 PM) *
I think it's up to the student to decide when to submit to REC, ie when you feel it will be beneficial for you. Perhaps you are stuck, feeling uninspired, need a second opinion etc. I don't think Gab would mind.


Don't get me wrong, nobody has ever told me NOT to post to REC, I've just posted and posted to my thread until they've eventually said "I think you should post to the REC" smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 11 2015, 01:20 PM
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Hi guys! Interesting discussion here. About the REC grading, I've been thinking on a new approach in order to decide the grade that I'll give to the takes. Kris send me some old grading guidelines that included this topics:

1, Rhythm placement: Overall ability to play in rhythm and keep a steady tempo. This aspect should take into consideration the groove factor of certain lessons such as topics involving shuffle or swing type of rhythm.

2. Cleanness: The cleanness factor evaluates the student's ability to play something with clarity and precision. This is indicative of the overall level of playing as well as the amount of practice of this particular lesson

3. Feel: The feel factor determines if the student shows comfort in the chosen musical piece. Several factors are included in the feel criteria such as rhythm placement, posture and overall lesson execution.

4. Posture: Posture determines if the student is holding the instrument correctly and shows comfort while playing. This criteria should of course take into account the difficulty of the lesson.

5. Sound: The sound factor will grade the student's tone and ability to play a piece with a similar type of sound. This section will not give advantage to students with more expensive gear, it is more of a general way to see if you can chose an appropriate tone to the lesson you're working on.

Each of these topics mean 2/10 of the total grade, and I'll include: 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5 and 2. The final grade will be the sum of everything. If I get a "x.5" I'll go to the closer low number. For example if the sum of everything is 5.5, my grade will be 5.

I'll do this internally, I won't publish this method and individual concepts grades every time I evaluate a take but I wanted to share with you my new approach.

What do you think?


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MisterM
post Jun 11 2015, 01:51 PM
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Hi GMC

I completely agree with this decision.
The grade should not be the objective.
Lessons can learn so much . It 'll be a shame to rush through , the note should not be the objective.
Sometimes some instructors are very severe on details and sometimes they are so kind .
Keep in mind the progress of the guitarist.

You should not make any difference between the GMC's subscriber .
Consider also that the lessons are sometimes underestimated ....
Some have a Level 4 are harder than 5 levels ...

Thank you to all the teachers for their time, their advice, their beautiful music and thank you for sharing ....

I love GMC


QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 11 2015, 12:20 PM) *
Hi guys! Interesting discussion here. About the REC grading, I've been thinking on a new approach in order to decide the grade that I'll give to the takes. Kris send me some old grading guidelines that included this topics:

1, Rhythm placement: Overall ability to play in rhythm and keep a steady tempo. This aspect should take into consideration the groove factor of certain lessons such as topics involving shuffle or swing type of rhythm.

2. Cleanness: The cleanness factor evaluates the student's ability to play something with clarity and precision. This is indicative of the overall level of playing as well as the amount of practice of this particular lesson

3. Feel: The feel factor determines if the student shows comfort in the chosen musical piece. Several factors are included in the feel criteria such as rhythm placement, posture and overall lesson execution.

4. Posture: Posture determines if the student is holding the instrument correctly and shows comfort while playing. This criteria should of course take into account the difficulty of the lesson.

5. Sound: The sound factor will grade the student's tone and ability to play a piece with a similar type of sound. This section will not give advantage to students with more expensive gear, it is more of a general way to see if you can chose an appropriate tone to the lesson you're working on.

Each of these topics mean 2/10 of the total grade, and I'll include: 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5 and 2. The final grade will be the sum of everything. If I get a "x.5" I'll go to the closer low number. For example if the sum of everything is 5.5, my grade will be 5.

I'll do this internally, I won't publish this method and individual concepts grades every time I evaluate a take but I wanted to share with you my new approach.

What do you think?



Hi Gab, thank you for this clear language.

Great concept
All these elements together which is mportant in serious take.
Why not show on the vote board they 5 elements with their grade ?

This concept should be a new basis for all instructors.

Sometimes the instructors explain their rating .
It is not easy to understand English because the instructors are from various countries
and it is not always correct in expression.

The 5 elements help us understand where we are good or less good.....

This post has been edited by MisterM: Jun 11 2015, 02:28 PM


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Phil66
post Jun 11 2015, 02:42 PM
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I think the five elements and the total being displayed is a superb idea smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 11 2015, 02:57 PM
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QUOTE (MisterM @ Jun 11 2015, 09:51 AM) *
Hi Gab, thank you for this clear language.

Great concept
All these elements together which is mportant in serious take.
Why not show on the vote board they 5 elements with their grade ?

This concept should be a new basis for all instructors.

Sometimes the instructors explain their rating .
It is not easy to understand English because the instructors are from various countries
and it is not always correct in expression.

The 5 elements help us understand where we are good or less good.....


yes, the grade will include comments as always with feedback to explain which elements that need work to improve the take and reach a higher grade, and ideas on how to work them.


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Annemie
post Jun 11 2015, 05:13 PM
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Hi Guys, I think the rec greading tweaks are a good idea. It makes the grading more clear and if it includes the five elements + grading it makes it even more clear smile.gif

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Fran
post Jun 11 2015, 08:14 PM
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If you wish to post a REC take, then just go ahead and do it!
Guitar should be fun, learning should be fun.

If REC makes you happy, whatever the reason, go for it (showing your playing, climbing the ladders, getting instructors feedback...)

You have nothing to lose and lots to learn. Not just playing but also about tone, video editing etc.

Have FUN.


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Phil66
post Jun 11 2015, 08:29 PM
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Great, thanks for that, as I said to Gab in my personal thread, I thought REC was purely like an exam, you only entered if you thought you had a chance of passing. Now I realise it is there for assessment. I will start posting more regularly, so long as I have the whole piece under my fingers in one way or another. I don't care if I get a 1, I'll just try for a 2, then a 3 etc etc etc wink.gif

Thanks everyone, I feel liberated and inspired.

Let's do this smile.gif


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Marek Rojewski
post Jun 12 2015, 12:35 PM
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Hello everyone after another long break of mine!

As a "veteran" of GMC I remember the old REC grading system, and would like to share my thoughts...

I didn't like the old system because:

I feel that learning how to play the lesson is many times more valuable and difficult than being or not being relaxed, and choosing an appropriate tone or not. Of course good posture is important, and playing stoner rock with a jazz tone makes no sense, but accurately playing the lesson with a satisfactory technique is on a wholly different level of importance IMHO. When the old system worked, the overall level of lessons that passed was lower than it is now, because it was "easy" to get good grades for tone, posture/being relaxed, so it counterbalanced the poorer grades for technique:/ I remember that the change from the old grading system to a new one, resulted in many lessons that didn't pass, and students soon started to present a higher level of preparation before posting a take.

I don't know what is the best solution, also because it depends on the people involved. For example I always feel down when I don't pass, and I don't think that it gives any additional motivation to me. Maybe because I practice one lesson for too long so when I post a REC take I "hope" to move on to new stuff to practice, but when I fail I am "sentenced" to additional practice of a lesson I am already too familiar with.

What would be ideal for me is as much constructive criticism as possible in REC comments, also with maybe links to lessons that could help with overcoming my problems, but with quite a "friendly" grading system. For me "winning" a REC take is motivating to practice another lesson and aim to "win" again, while "losing" strengthens my REC anxiety and depressive thinking dry.gif

After all no matter what the grades are, it is all left to the student to use the constructive criticism he received, and it is connected with his personality, that we don't have an influence on.


With a more strict grading, maybe the passmark of 7.5 should be reconsidered? Like in school 51% most of the time is a pass. So while the student gets not so great grades, like 5.5 or 6.0, and those grades are telling the student that he still has much place for improvement, it still is a positive grade, not a "negative" grade that basically means - the take didn't pass, you failed to pass.


Maybe we could also consider opening the REC forum to everyone, and instead of voting, admin would have to read the instructor comments to check what grade they give (so they would have to write it in a post instead of the current way of grading). That way more people could comment and contribute.


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