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> The Gmc Borderline Group Program
Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 6 2015, 12:57 AM
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Hello guys!

Based on the last two posts, I wanted to say that I'm not expecting that you emulate the tone of the original lesson. When I say that one of the main elements to focus on this one is tone, the idea is that you experiment and explore your own gear to get the most of it to create a tone that fits good this this backing. Remember that every part of the chain is important when we talk about tone, from your fingers to your cabinet.

Does it make sense?



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Darius Wave
post Jul 6 2015, 09:33 AM
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Feel honored to see my lesson chosen for you program. Thanx for your kind words Gabriel!

As for the tone. I know there is a problem with volume rolls - some distortion devices do not sound best when you roll off the volume. I do not want to mess too much in your heads about tone set-up but I can give some very basic tips. If you don't have a single coil, don't worry - simply brighten the tone of your less paul. Any kind of "Marshall-like" crunch distortion simulation should do the job. LeXTAC is a Bogner Extasy simulation and Bogner became famous by making mods on Marshall amps. Many people agree that Bogner is sort of Marshall on steroids smile.gif That's why any "British stack" amp sim should do the job smile.gif

The tips:
1. Make sure to use low distortion level to keep wide dynamics translation range - see if the sound becomes much more sharp when you pick very hard and the opposite - warm and round when you softly touch the string. If there is too much distortion, the difference between those two will be too small.
2. Make sure to turn off the noise gate on your signal chain - will help to avoid volume swells failure. Low gain level should be enought to get rid of most of the hum/noise

This post has been edited by Darius Wave: Jul 6 2015, 02:36 PM


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bleez
post Jul 6 2015, 10:53 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jul 6 2015, 09:33 AM) *
Feel honored to see my lesson chosen for you program. Thanx for your kind words Gabriel!

As for the tone. I now there is some problem with volume rolls - some distortion devices do not sound best when you roll off the volume. I do not want to mess too much in your heads about tone set-up but I can give some very basic tips. If youdon't have a single coil, don't worry - simpyl brighten the tone of your less paul. Any kind of "Marshall-like" crunch distortion simulation should do the job. LeXTAC is a Bogner Extasy simulation and Bogner became famous by making mods on Marshall amps. Many people agree that Bogner is sort of Marshall on steroids smile.gif That's why any "British stack" amp sim should do the job smile.gif

The tips:
1. Make sure to use low distortion level to keep wide dynamics translation range - see if the sound becomes much more sharp when you pick very hard and the opposite - warm and round when you softly touch the string. If there is too much distortion, the difference between those two will be too small.
2. Make sure to turn off the noise gate on your signal chain - will help to avoid volume swells failure. Low gain level should be enought to get rid of most of the hum/noise

interesting tips,Darius. thanks for posting. Im going to try a British stack type amp for this. I never would have thought about dropping the noise gate to help the swells but it makes a lot of sense smile.gif


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yoncopin
post Jul 6 2015, 02:02 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jul 5 2015, 07:57 PM) *
Hello guys!

Based on the last two posts, I wanted to say that I'm not expecting that you emulate the tone of the original lesson. When I say that one of the main elements to focus on this one is tone, the idea is that you experiment and explore your own gear to get the most of it to create a tone that fits good this this backing. Remember that every part of the chain is important when we talk about tone, from your fingers to your cabinet.

Does it make sense?


If the goal was to explore our gear, mission accomplished. The noise gate was right out because of the volume swells and I had to try to solve the hum/buzz that was left behind. There are about a million different places in the Pod to adjust the volume and gain and I learned that my understanding of what did what was all wrong. I had been using the master volume, which controlled the amp's power section to volume-level my patches. Of course, this affects the tone a lot but I hadn't noticed. The channel volume is a transparent volume control which is the right answer. After learning that vital nugget, I wasn't fighting to build a decent tone with the amp power section cranked. It made it a lot easier smile.gif All my old patches are pretty much out the window though...


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 6 2015, 03:01 PM
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QUOTE (yoncopin @ Jul 6 2015, 10:02 AM) *
If the goal was to explore our gear, mission accomplished. The noise gate was right out because of the volume swells and I had to try to solve the hum/buzz that was left behind. There are about a million different places in the Pod to adjust the volume and gain and I learned that my understanding of what did what was all wrong. I had been using the master volume, which controlled the amp's power section to volume-level my patches. Of course, this affects the tone a lot but I hadn't noticed. The channel volume is a transparent volume control which is the right answer. After learning that vital nugget, I wasn't fighting to build a decent tone with the amp power section cranked. It made it a lot easier smile.gif All my old patches are pretty much out the window though...



hehehe that's great mate! Yeah, I used a Pod in the past and remember that the master volume could quit drive in my tones if it wasn't used in 10 while the channel volume was a normal leveler. This information is vital to do the things right when setting a tone.

Keep on experimenting!




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bleez
post Jul 6 2015, 03:50 PM
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QUOTE (yoncopin @ Jul 6 2015, 02:02 PM) *
If the goal was to explore our gear, mission accomplished. The noise gate was right out because of the volume swells and I had to try to solve the hum/buzz that was left behind. There are about a million different places in the Pod to adjust the volume and gain and I learned that my understanding of what did what was all wrong. I had been using the master volume, which controlled the amp's power section to volume-level my patches. Of course, this affects the tone a lot but I hadn't noticed. The channel volume is a transparent volume control which is the right answer. After learning that vital nugget, I wasn't fighting to build a decent tone with the amp power section cranked. It made it a lot easier smile.gif All my old patches are pretty much out the window though...



QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jul 6 2015, 03:01 PM) *
hehehe that's great mate! Yeah, I used a Pod in the past and remember that the master volume could quit drive in my tones if it wasn't used in 10 while the channel volume was a normal leveler. This information is vital to do the things right when setting a tone.

Keep on experimenting!


so you guys would have the master volume ( is that the one on the actual unit? ) running quite high and the channel volume on the amp lower?


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yoncopin
post Jul 6 2015, 04:34 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 6 2015, 10:50 AM) *
so you guys would have the master volume ( is that the one on the actual unit? ) running quite high and the channel volume on the amp lower?


Here's how I understand it now...

MASTER (hardware knob on unit) - Tone-transparent volume for controlling output volume from unit. At max level you have highest signal-to-noise ratio. I use SPDIF out to an audio interface, so this stays at maximum for me. It'd probably be more useful if you were gigging in different venues.

Ch.Vol (Edit software) / VOLUME (hardware knob) - Tone-transparent volume knob for leveling patch volumes. Keep at around 50% to start to have some room up and down.

Gain (Edit software & hardware knob) - Amp preamp gain stage

Master (Edit software and editable parameter) - In "Amp Parameters" Amp poweramp gain stage

Mixer: This is the one I understand the least at this point. I think it's primary purpose is to adjust volumes when using dual amps.


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Chris S.
post Jul 7 2015, 01:43 AM
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So what happens when you come back from vacation? LOTS OF CATCHING UP! tongue.gif

Here's a rough take of where I am - I'm definitely going to try to pump as much of myself into this one but keep some of the main elements (you'll notice how I shift the piece at 32s back a little from where it should be). I even added a big bend (although it needs to be a little bigger) to add a touch of the previous lesson in it.

The swells are pretty bad but I will definitely work on them:

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/gmc-ballad-progress

Any advice? Thanks biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Chris S.: Jul 7 2015, 01:45 AM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 7 2015, 05:12 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 6 2015, 11:50 AM) *
so you guys would have the master volume ( is that the one on the actual unit? ) running quite high and the channel volume on the amp lower?



yes, that's what I do unless I want to lower drive as it would happen with the pot of my guitar. If I want all the signal with the drive set by the amp I turn it in 10.

QUOTE (Chris S. @ Jul 6 2015, 09:43 PM) *
So what happens when you come back from vacation? LOTS OF CATCHING UP! tongue.gif

Here's a rough take of where I am - I'm definitely going to try to pump as much of myself into this one but keep some of the main elements (you'll notice how I shift the piece at 32s back a little from where it should be). I even added a big bend (although it needs to be a little bigger) to add a touch of the previous lesson in it.

The swells are pretty bad but I will definitely work on them:

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/gmc-ballad-progress

Any advice? Thanks biggrin.gif



Hi Chris, this is on the right track. I like the feeling of what you are playing here. Be careful with timing and the pitch of your bends during the next days of practice. The tone is also promising, I would continue experimenting with EQ to make it fit better with the mix but it's really close. Maybe lowering a bit the mid frecuencies and with some more presence but you could also experiment with some other changes like the cabinet, mic, etc.


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Beat Zbinden
post Jul 7 2015, 07:39 PM
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rolleyes.gif After two days without a computer is now the problem fixed! I say it again and again " in each apple is a worm " cool.gif
I working hard on the new task . A major challenge is the sound!
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bleez
post Jul 7 2015, 08:06 PM
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anyone else finding this one hugely difficult ohmy.gif the original lesson is absolutely fantastic but I hate what Im doing to it right now! It sounds like Im killing it slowly and painfully ph34r.gif


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Beat Zbinden
post Jul 7 2015, 08:27 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 7 2015, 07:06 PM) *
anyone else finding this one hugely difficult ohmy.gif the original lesson is absolutely fantastic but I hate what Im doing to it right now! It sounds like Im killing it slowly and painfully ph34r.gif


I also find that it is very difficult. If I make a recording , it sounds a little weak.
But we ha a few more days ! laugh.gif
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Chris S.
post Jul 7 2015, 10:19 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 7 2015, 07:06 PM) *
anyone else finding this one hugely difficult ohmy.gif the original lesson is absolutely fantastic but I hate what Im doing to it right now! It sounds like Im killing it slowly and painfully ph34r.gif

If you think you're doing bad just listen to my sound cloud sample I posted unsure.gif

All that we can do is try our best!!! biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Chris S.: Jul 7 2015, 10:19 PM


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bleez
post Jul 7 2015, 11:38 PM
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QUOTE (Chris S. @ Jul 7 2015, 10:19 PM) *
If you think you're doing bad just listen to my sound cloud sample I posted unsure.gif

All that we can do is try our best!!! biggrin.gif

Dude, your sample is showing promise even at this early stage. you tone is sounding nice already and you have the backing track playing faster than I do at the moment.
I had a bad session tonight, I dont like my tone, Im playing it really slow and it just sounds bad. It kinda bummed me out a bit rolleyes.gif
I'll keep working at it.


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Chris S.
post Jul 8 2015, 01:49 AM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 7 2015, 10:38 PM) *
Dude, your sample is showing promise even at this early stage. you tone is sounding nice already and you have the backing track playing faster than I do at the moment.
I had a bad session tonight, I dont like my tone, Im playing it really slow and it just sounds bad. It kinda bummed me out a bit rolleyes.gif
I'll keep working at it.

Wish I saw it like you do tongue.gif

I think we're just too hard on our selves wink.gif

Keep rockin' man!


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Chris S.
post Jul 9 2015, 02:41 AM
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Hey Gab!

So just a quick update of where I am at:

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/gmc-ballad-progress-2

I've been trying to tighten up the timing and focus on reaching the right pitches on my bends (except at 27s where I purposely over-bend to emulate the Bendy Blues assignment).

Tried to work on the tone a little bit as well - just updated my setup with a BBE Sonic Maximizer rack mount and a Tube Screamer (to add some analog to the signal instead of using the built in TS clone on my 11 Rack). Do you think it's any better?

I know I'm kind of using more of my own stuff than I probably should but I can't help it - this backing track rocks - but I am trying to use as wide of a range of dynamics as I can possibly think of so that counts for something, right? tongue.gif

Keep on rockin' everyone!

This post has been edited by Chris S.: Jul 9 2015, 02:45 AM


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Beat Zbinden
post Jul 9 2015, 04:42 PM
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My first version. I hope i have the right sound.
At 1:20 there is a noise on the backing track. Do you have that too ??
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Ballad_Soloing.mp3 ( 1.06MB ) Number of downloads: 29
 
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Phil66
post Jul 9 2015, 06:01 PM
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I'm really enjoying following this thread, learning a lot about approach too.

Thanks smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 10 2015, 01:40 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jul 6 2015, 05:33 AM) *
Feel honored to see my lesson chosen for you program. Thanx for your kind words Gabriel!

As for the tone. I know there is a problem with volume rolls - some distortion devices do not sound best when you roll off the volume. I do not want to mess too much in your heads about tone set-up but I can give some very basic tips. If you don't have a single coil, don't worry - simply brighten the tone of your less paul. Any kind of "Marshall-like" crunch distortion simulation should do the job. LeXTAC is a Bogner Extasy simulation and Bogner became famous by making mods on Marshall amps. Many people agree that Bogner is sort of Marshall on steroids smile.gif That's why any "British stack" amp sim should do the job smile.gif

The tips:
1. Make sure to use low distortion level to keep wide dynamics translation range - see if the sound becomes much more sharp when you pick very hard and the opposite - warm and round when you softly touch the string. If there is too much distortion, the difference between those two will be too small.
2. Make sure to turn off the noise gate on your signal chain - will help to avoid volume swells failure. Low gain level should be enought to get rid of most of the hum/noise



Thanks a lot Mr Wave for the great tips here! It's very valuable for us here to have your input during these 10 days of work over your lesson. smile.gif

QUOTE (Chris S. @ Jul 8 2015, 10:41 PM) *
Hey Gab!

So just a quick update of where I am at:

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/gmc-ballad-progress-2

I've been trying to tighten up the timing and focus on reaching the right pitches on my bends (except at 27s where I purposely over-bend to emulate the Bendy Blues assignment).

Tried to work on the tone a little bit as well - just updated my setup with a BBE Sonic Maximizer rack mount and a Tube Screamer (to add some analog to the signal instead of using the built in TS clone on my 11 Rack). Do you think it's any better?

I know I'm kind of using more of my own stuff than I probably should but I can't help it - this backing track rocks - but I am trying to use as wide of a range of dynamics as I can possibly think of so that counts for something, right? tongue.gif

Keep on rockin' everyone!



Great job Chris! The new tone is much better now! The overall color is nicer, and more natural, and it fits a lot better with the mix. Good job changing gear and tweaking the EQ. Your playing is also on the right track, be careful with bends and of course keep on exploring dynamics possibilities.... wink.gif


QUOTE (Beat Zbinden @ Jul 9 2015, 12:42 PM) *
My first version. I hope i have the right sound.
At 1:20 there is a noise on the backing track. Do you have that too ??



Hi Beat! Great to see you working hard. Your tone is good, I think that it has the right amount of drive and that the only thing that needs some tweak is the EQ. There are some low mid frequencies a bit too present, I would try searching for those frequencies and lowering them a bit.

Besides this, please also focus a bit more on your phrasing, try to be more precise with the pitches while bending and also while playing vibrato, and give more attention dynamics to control this element a bit more.

Keep on the hard work! wink.gif


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Chris S.
post Jul 10 2015, 08:10 PM
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Hey Gab!

So this is a rough final take - I got a case of the record button jitters dry.gif

47-52 seconds is not what I had in mind but once I hit record that's what came out rolleyes.gif

https://soundcloud.com/stortzmusic/gmc-ballad-assignment-rough-final

and I goofed up the harmonics at 1:08-1:10

so those two parts in my final take will be slightly different. I also strayed further away from the main tabs at the end ph34r.gif

I could resist wailing out a solo I had bottled up tongue.gif

Still have to work on my bends and tighten everything up but overall what do you think? Did I go about this the right way?

Thanks

EDIT: Do you think the over bend I use at 27s to take away from the last lesson is a bad idea? Do you feel it ruins the rest of the take?

This post has been edited by Chris S.: Jul 10 2015, 08:17 PM


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