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> U.s. Supreme Court Legalizes Gay Marriage In Every State
Chris S.
post Jun 29 2015, 11:27 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Jun 29 2015, 10:09 PM) *
As a freelance musician ... this can only mean more gigs!

Gonna need a thicker agenda! tongue.gif


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AK Rich
post Jul 3 2015, 05:24 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 29 2015, 01:17 PM) *
Gay folks aren't trying to force anyone to do anything. They don't want to force anyone to marry same sex if they don't want to smile.gif So there's no "force" in the decision. Just a recognition of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness as requisite whether one happens to be gay or straight. One more of the last vestiges of bigotry finally downed smile.gif


I guess you don't remember the lawsuit against the bakers for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple because of moral and religious reasons. Is this not forcing acceptance? And now there is a gag order against them to stop them from speaking out about gay marriage.
I am sure you won't like the source but this is the latest news never the less.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/oregon...ake_983506.html

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/20...g-gay-marriage/

There is no question that there is a fascist element to the gay movement which is now pushing for an end to tax exempt status for churches based on their religious objections to gay marriage. This portion of the gay movement would seek to deny anyone from speaking out against gay marriage, forcing the acceptance and recognition of everyone no matter their religious and moral objections.

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Todd Simpson
post Jul 3 2015, 06:43 PM
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I remember smile.gif Folks have every right to bring lawsuits for anything and everything. But, refusing to serve people because they are Gay is the same things as not serving them for any other arbitrary reason, in legal terms anyway. Just as you can't refuse service because someone is black, or worships Satan, or is agnostic, you can't legally refuse them service just because they are gay.

This is "forcing" a measure of equality. Not acceptance. As a vendor, you don't have to accept any lifestyle/religion choice on the part of your customers. But you can't have a "no gays served" sign in your store.

In the case you mention, the Baker was held liable. Vendors don't have the right to be discriminatory. sad.gif

Egad! Pulling the weekly standard in smile.gif I might have to post something from Mother jones smile.gif

I don't think we have much to worry about from the "Fascist Gays" smile.gif Unless you mean their keen fashion sense.

Anyone can speak out against or for anything smile.gif That's the beauty of it. Folks can speak out against gay marriage all they want smile.gif Then again, we have no laws against spoken bigotry here unless it crosses in to hate speech. But after hearing THE DONALD go off all racist/xenophobic against Mexicans, it seems pretty clear that bigotry is widely available and supported by many in the GOP as he is second only to heir Bush in the poles. Sad.

QUOTE (AK Rich @ Jul 3 2015, 12:24 PM) *
I guess you don't remember the lawsuit against the bakers for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple because of moral and religious reasons. Is this not forcing acceptance? And now there is a gag order against them to stop them from speaking out about gay marriage.
I am sure you won't like the source but this is the latest news never the less.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/oregon...ake_983506.html

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/20...g-gay-marriage/

There is no question that there is a fascist element to the gay movement which is now pushing for an end to tax exempt status for churches based on their religious objections to gay marriage. This portion of the gay movement would seek to deny anyone from speaking out against gay marriage, forcing the acceptance and recognition of everyone no matter their religious and moral objections.



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jstcrsn
post Jul 4 2015, 12:50 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jul 3 2015, 06:43 PM) *
I remember smile.gif Just as you can't refuse service because someone is black, or worships Satan, or is agnostic, you can't legally refuse them service just because they are gay.

so in this "free" country ", when are you allowed to refuse service?. Being nude?. Isn't that the same as being black- your born like that !A private company should have the Right to refuse service to anyone whom they choose. Black , gay , male , female it should not matter. I personally have done work for all of the above and as a business man, think its a bad decision to refuse work,but, will fight tooth and nail for the government not to step in and force this issue. Especially when their are myriads of others will to do the service.

And I like your liberal twisting . Rich says a fascist element to the gay agenda and you try to nullify his post twisting it to the 'Fascist gays".
But when you say their not forcing , and rich brings up a few examples of people being forced , it tends to make your argument look foolish

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Jul 4 2015, 12:57 PM
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AK Rich
post Jul 4 2015, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jul 3 2015, 09:43 AM) *
Anyone can speak out against or for anything smile.gif That's the beauty of it. Folks can speak out against gay marriage all they want smile.gif Then again, we have no laws against spoken bigotry here unless it crosses in to hate speech. But after hearing THE DONALD go off all racist/xenophobic against Mexicans, it seems pretty clear that bigotry is widely available and supported by many in the GOP as he is second only to heir Bush in the poles. Sad.


Heavy sigh. Bigotry, right. I guess that ends any meaningful and rational debate about the serious problems that we have on our southern border. Typical childish response from the left when there is something that they don't want to talk about rationally. Heaven forbid someones feelings may get hurt.
Happy Independence day bro. I am out.

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Ben Higgins
post Jul 4 2015, 07:55 PM
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I personally believe everyone has the right to like or dislike whatever they want providing they have the understanding that what they choose to express publicly may lead to repercussions.

Whether the repercussions are justified or not is another matter but choosing to express an opinion that one knows is not going to be popular doesn't come with automatic immunity from any backlash that occurs. What I mean by that is when people say stuff that they know is going to offend.. for example

"I hate fat chicks!"

Then loads of people negatively respond in kind

"Hey, freedom of speech, man... "

If you're going to be offensive, take responsibility and know that there may be many who don't like your views.

I don't think the company with the cake needed to be sued, though. That was overkill. Just call them tossers and move on and find another shop.

But ISIS though, now those guys truly are wrong... that's something to get angry about.

This post has been edited by Ben Higgins: Jul 4 2015, 07:55 PM


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jstcrsn
post Jul 5 2015, 11:59 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jul 4 2015, 07:55 PM) *
I personally believe everyone has the right to like or dislike whatever they want providing they have the understanding that what they choose to express publicly may lead to repercussions.

Whether the repercussions are justified or not is another matter but choosing to express an opinion that one knows is not going to be popular doesn't come with automatic immunity from any backlash that occurs. What I mean by that is when people say stuff that they know is going to offend.. for example

"I hate fat chicks!"

Then loads of people negatively respond in kind

"Hey, freedom of speech, man... "

If you're going to be offensive, take responsibility and know that there may be many who don't like your views.

I don't think the company with the cake needed to be sued, though. That was overkill. Just call them tossers and move on and find another shop.

But ISIS though, now those guys truly are wrong... that's something to get angry about.

have you ever thought, maybe, the fat ch,um, pleasantly plump girls , hate you
I hear they don't like uncontrollable urination

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Todd Simpson
post Jul 5 2015, 09:34 PM
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I"m QUOTING Crsn here. "....Being Nude? Isn't that the same as being black?..."

NO. Those are not the same smile.gif

Of course, you have every right to feel ever how you want on denial of service smile.gif However, the supreme court has come down on the other side of the issue so it's settled in terms of the law. But still, folks can feel how they like smile.gif

I'll continue to be on the lookout for fascist gays though and nude black people. smile.gif

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 4 2015, 07:50 AM) *
so in this "free" country ", when are you allowed to refuse service?. Being nude?. Isn't that the same as being black- your born like that !A private company should have the Right to refuse service to anyone whom they choose. Black , gay , male , female it should not matter. I personally have done work for all of the above and as a business man, think its a bad decision to refuse work,but, will fight tooth and nail for the government not to step in and force this issue. Especially when their are myriads of others will to do the service.

And I like your liberal twisting . Rich says a fascist element to the gay agenda and you try to nullify his post twisting it to the 'Fascist gays".
But when you say their not forcing , and rich brings up a few examples of people being forced , it tends to make your argument look foolish



Trump's remarks were quite simply bigotry. No other way to put it. Nothing to do with feelings. Just him making racist comments is all smile.gif He has every right to be a racist, every right to be a bigot and claim that Mexicans are all "rapists". But we have every right to call him on it smile.gif Here is Donald defending it.



QUOTE (AK Rich @ Jul 4 2015, 12:36 PM) *
Heavy sigh. Bigotry, right. I guess that ends any meaningful and rational debate about the serious problems that we have on our southern border. Typical childish response from the left when there is something that they don't want to talk about rationally. Heaven forbid someones feelings may get hurt.
Happy Independence day bro. I am out.


Well said!! smile.gif Donald can say "we are a dumping ground for Mexican rapists" but he should expect to be called out on it and anyone supporting him should expect the same.

I agree with you on ISIS smile.gif Those folks are just beyond crazy and pure evil. They really don't deserve anything other than being on the biz end of a Chally tank.

QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jul 4 2015, 02:55 PM) *
I personally believe everyone has the right to like or dislike whatever they want providing they have the understanding that what they choose to express publicly may lead to repercussions.

Whether the repercussions are justified or not is another matter but choosing to express an opinion that one knows is not going to be popular doesn't come with automatic immunity from any backlash that occurs. What I mean by that is when people say stuff that they know is going to offend.. for example

"I hate fat chicks!"

Then loads of people negatively respond in kind

"Hey, freedom of speech, man... "

If you're going to be offensive, take responsibility and know that there may be many who don't like your views.

I don't think the company with the cake needed to be sued, though. That was overkill. Just call them tossers and move on and find another shop.

But ISIS though, now those guys truly are wrong... that's something to get angry about.



This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jul 5 2015, 09:31 PM


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jstcrsn
post Jul 5 2015, 11:09 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jul 5 2015, 09:34 PM) *
I"m QUOTING Crsn here. "....Being Nude? Isn't that the same as being black?..."

NO. Those are not the same smile.gif

Once again . Liberal twisting to try to nullify the question rather than rational thought and answering

"so in this "free" country ", when are you allowed to refuse service?. Being nude?. Isn't that the same as being black- your born like that"

Three questions , each with their period. Asking when is it allowable to refuse service.Should I as business man be able to refuse service to someone nude. Being born nude and being born black are the same thing , and the question was legitimate, instead of trying to be civil and just answer the question , you thought it would be fun to just mock . being born black is why blacks were finally given their civil rights ( as they should have been ). Side note it was the republicans that marched with the blacks and the democrats that tried to block giving them their rights. But I digress .And that is why blacks should not be discriminated against . I guess I wonder why you just can't answer a simple question without mocking me
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Marek Rojewski
post Jul 6 2015, 08:06 AM
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Jstcrsn - your falling into a trap. Of course being nude and being black is different. The social norms are what makes them different. It is obvious in Western World that being nude in public is wrong (excluding the aggressive breast feeding movement of the last decade) and being Jew or Black isn't (and we both can accept that as good right?).

The problem is that social norms are degrading, and so more and more healthy things are mutated into something worse, or bad things are elevated to proper ones.

Since I was a little child and heard for the first time, that a salesman must serve everyone I was surprised and disgusted. What on earth? I open my shop, it is my shop, my space, my kingdom. I can put Mao Se Dong portrait on the wall, or even a butchered decomposing cow. Maybe it is a good idea to put some kind of information on the doors, that some people may not like what they find inside, but the idea that because someone can force me to change my place because he thinks something should be made different is ridiculous.

It is the owners choice who he will serve. The Supreme Court in USA decided otherwise, showcasing that even people at the highest level of Jurisprudence can have big problems with logic and general brain usage. They are infected with the virus of political correctness, the sole greatest threat to Western civilisation.

ISIS would not be a threat, if the Western World would still cultivate it values. Islam was always in a state of war with the Western World, but we always won, and we still would win and just overcome this obstacle.
Now ISIS is a threat because we abandoned our values, the comfort and easy life made people weak and stupid. People watch ISIS cutting heads on Youtube and are like "oooo man how terrible, these dudes are really out of their minds YOLO UH OH" or "someone should tell them we can all be gay and friendly!". This will never work, and if not reversed will result in all of our heads or the heads of our children being chopped off.
The right reaction to Islam is simple - abandon it or get out of our lands. --> Respect our culture or get out of it. --> You are still here trying not to listen? --> Because we are of much higher culture than you, we offer you one last chance, of leaving --> Unfortunately now you die fool.

I don't think Crusades are necessary, in fact some cultures just need an excuse to slaughter each other indefinitely. This is not our problem and not our duty to change that. In fact it is the opposite - we have no right to interfere in their lands in the way they live, that would make us no better barbarians than them.


Having written all this, because I am tired of all this politically correct nonsense, I think that this discussion shouldn't continue. Agreement upon those topics is another utopian lie that only the politically correct can believe in.


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Ben Higgins
post Jul 6 2015, 10:32 AM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 5 2015, 10:59 AM) *
have you ever thought, maybe, the fat ch,um, pleasantly plump girls , hate you
I hear they don't like uncontrollable urination


The "I hate fat chicks" was supposed to hypothetically represent somebody else, just to clarify with everyone - I don't hold that view, ok? biggrin.gif

But to answer you - yes, they may do, and they have that right although they're totally wrong - I'm amazing smile.gif

Re: urination, there might be a market in some corners of Europe for that sort of thing????

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jul 5 2015, 08:34 PM) *
They really don't deserve anything other than being on the biz end of a Chally tank.


High five, brother!

QUOTE (Marek Rojewski @ Jul 6 2015, 07:06 AM) *
ISIS would not be a threat, if the Western World would still cultivate it values. Islam was always in a state of war with the Western World, but we always won, and we still would win and just overcome this obstacle.

Although I'm not religious I can see how people follow a religion and only use it as a cause for good.. look at what great art, music and creations people have given to the world in the name of their faith. What would the Renaissance be without Catholicism? I can't imagine what Italy would look like if it were not for Christianity. Or Ancient Greece without the pantheon of Greek deities?

Of course, others use it for the exact opposite which tells us is this; The world doesn't have a religion problem, it has a people problem. All problems that manifest amongst the human population are people problems. Incorrect gun usage is a people problem. Denial of the reality of incorrect gun usage is a people problem. Racial issues aren't a race problem, they're a people problem.

The thing about the Middle East is that it has always been a tribal area with tribal boundaries and ties that run deep. When any outsider tries to put in a one size fits all government, it doesn't take into account the tribal nature of their culture. The Western forces that went there probably ended up learning more about how those areas work than anybody else. As you said, there has always been war in that area but it's always been that way... before Islam, before any Western countries went there. It's a people issue again.

Terrorists like CystISIS want us to see it as us vs Islam. They want chaos. They are the big, fat angry kid who pees in the swimming pool and ruins it for everyone just because they can. They're a melting pot for every sad, pathetic, anti social sociopath who wants an excuse, any excuse, to hurt others. CystISIS is an excuse for people to carry out their psychopathy.

Man, Marek you should post more often - you make my brain start working again. smile.gif

QUOTE (Marek Rojewski @ Jul 6 2015, 07:06 AM) *
Agreement upon those topics is another utopian lie that only the politically correct can believe in.


I agree that it's not possible to have this. Why? We only have to look at the concept of a personality disorder like psychopathy. I know it seems I'm obsessed by this word but bear with me. Have any of you watched tv shows about serial killers where they talk about the 'normal guy next door' the lack of empathy, the amazing capability to lie and manipulate?

Cutting to the chase, the end point is that these phenomenons cannot be cured. So you can imagine that using things like fairness and reason would be absolutely useless against someone of that mind.

If Ted Bundy was coming at you with that look in his eye would you try to reason with him? How do we think that would go?

Now let's apply that idea of battling psychopathy with reason to an entire group of people. No matter how much you conceded, play fair or give them what they want they are always looking for the next angle, the next moment to strike. There is no fair when dealing with certain people. Sadly this will never change.

I see a lot of the liberal minded, young student types railing against any sort of mindset which acknowledges that fact but they're living in a dream. They're young, naive, reading all about human rights and think they can change the world with words, reason, intelligent debate etc. The only time that can work is with others that work by your rules and fair standards. As always, go back to the scenario with the psycho coming at you with an axe. Is he playing by your rules and social norms? If you can't change him with reason how can you tackle an entire organisation?

In other news http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/05/anders-breiv...7/?ito=facebook



This post has been edited by Ben Higgins: Jul 6 2015, 10:40 AM


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jstcrsn
post Jul 6 2015, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jul 6 2015, 10:32 AM) *
The "I hate fat chicks" was supposed to hypothetically represent somebody else, just to clarify with everyone - I don't hold that view, ok? biggrin.gif

But to answer you - yes, they may do, and they have that right although they're totally wrong - I'm amazing smile.gif

Re: urination, there might be a market in some corners of Europe for that sort of thing????

I knew it was hypothetical , just ribbing you ,i forget that i should add emoticons wink.gif to clarify ohmy.gif biggrin.gif rolleyes.gif mad.gif smile.gif cool.gif tongue.gif huh.gif mellow.gif wink.gif laugh.gif dry.gif
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Ben Higgins
post Jul 6 2015, 11:47 AM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jul 6 2015, 09:43 AM) *
I knew it was hypothetical , just ribbing you ,i forget that i should add emoticons wink.gif to clarify ohmy.gif biggrin.gif rolleyes.gif mad.gif smile.gif cool.gif tongue.gif huh.gif mellow.gif wink.gif laugh.gif dry.gif


I knew you were jesting.. the disclaimer was just for anybody who wasn't sure biggrin.gif

Emoticon overkill!!!! cool.gif


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AK Rich
post Jul 6 2015, 06:27 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jul 5 2015, 12:34 PM) *
Trump's remarks were quite simply bigotry. No other way to put it. Nothing to do with feelings. Just him making racist comments is all smile.gif He has every right to be a racist, every right to be a bigot and claim that Mexicans are all "rapists". But we have every right to call him on it smile.gif Here is Donald defending it.





Here is the complete video of Donald Trumps speech that folks, including you are condemning as racist. I challenge you to highlight just one quote that claimed the entire Mexican race are rapists, murderers or whatever. You can't find that quote because it doesn't exist.
He was talking about those that blend in with the folks that come north to seek a better life and to escape the massive corruption and lawlessness that exists in Mexico and his quotes are 100% correct and easily verified even in Gov statistics, FBI reports, stories in the media etc, unless you watch CNN I guess. wink.gif Lo and behold the headlines today and you will see exactly the kind of people he was talking about.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-31...s-let-stay.html

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/20...es-in-24-hours/



Some folks have serious problems with their comprehension skills. Or maybe they are just geared to hear racism, bigotry and hate in anything that would be said.
Substantial numbers of murderers and rapists and drug smugglers (Many of which have been deported numerous times or released back into the US even though they have records of multiple and serious criminal offenses) and even Islamic terrorists are coming over the southern border in the virtual free for all that has been created by our current Presidential Admin unilaterally, and again, these facts and reality are easily verified and indisputable.
All of this outrage we have been seeing about Trumps speech is nothing more than Political Correctness run amok and you, my guitar shredding friend, are buying right into it. But it's all good man. I love you anyway. smile.gif Even if you think I am racist as well.

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Ben Higgins
post Jul 6 2015, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Jul 6 2015, 05:27 PM) *
Even if you think I am racist as well.


I think you're ALL racist for not wanting to be part of the English motherland any more... Independance Day? Pah, how dare you?!


wink.gif



We could have all been sipping tea together but oh no... you want your own government, you want burgers, rodeos, Hemi V8's, country music....

we could have been so good together sad.gif


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Chris S.
post Jul 6 2015, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jul 6 2015, 06:09 PM) *
I think you're ALL racist for not wanting to be part of the English motherland any more... Independance Day? Pah, how dare you?!


wink.gif



We could have all been sipping tea together but oh no... you want your own government, you want burgers, rodeos, Hemi V8's, country music....

we could have been so good together sad.gif

I love you wub.gif laugh.gif

but everyone knows watered down beer that's "as cold as the Rockies" > tea.*

'Merica!!!!



*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.


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Ben Higgins
post Jul 6 2015, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE (Chris S. @ Jul 6 2015, 06:24 PM) *
but everyone knows watered down beer that's "as cold as the Rockies" > tea.*


It may depend on the time of day but mostly I would actually agree with you and I even like tea wink.gif

But beer............... mmmmmm

QUOTE (Chris S. @ Jul 6 2015, 06:24 PM) *
*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.


To be fair, the same could probably be said for any food in the US!




ph34r.gif




I'll get my coat


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AK Rich
post Jul 6 2015, 09:14 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jul 6 2015, 10:09 AM) *
I think you're ALL racist for not wanting to be part of the English motherland any more... Independance Day? Pah, how dare you?!


wink.gif



We could have all been sipping tea together but oh no... you want your own government, you want burgers, rodeos, Hemi V8's, country music....

we could have been so good together sad.gif


laugh.gif Nice! Someday we must meet for burgers and brew, or tea and crumpets. Either one works for me. smile.gif
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Chris S.
post Jul 6 2015, 10:51 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jul 6 2015, 07:44 PM) *
It may depend on the time of day but mostly I would actually agree with you and I even like tea wink.gif

But beer............... mmmmmm



To be fair, the same could probably be said for any food in the US!




ph34r.gif




I'll get my coat

Side effects include nausea, heartburn, explosive diaharea, eyebrow combustion, excessive back hair, death, death, more death and or death.

death ph34r.gif


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Mudbone
post Jul 8 2015, 04:10 AM
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How the hell did we go from gay marriage to Mexicans, blacks, ISIS, and gay cakes?

Personally, I don't really care if gay people can get married. I never really cared when straight people got married either. In fact, I find all the marriage posts on Facebook irritating, and will probably find the gay ones just as annoying. They're 50% likely to end in failure, so why should I be emotionally invested in an institution doomed to failure?

Those who support businesses who choose to discriminate based on race, gender, religion etc probably don't know much about Jim Crow laws. I suggest you speak to a black person who has lived through that time period. There are plenty of them around, as that era wasn't too long ago. In fact, that oldest woman in the world, a black woman from Inkster, MI, who just recently passed away, personally knew former slaves. We're not that far removed from our past.

As far as ISIS, they're not nearly the menace to western society that the media makes them out to be. But they're certainly a threat to Arab Middle Eastern countries.

There is a big misunderstanding among western people about ISIS and Islam in general. Some westerners say they're representative of all muslims, and many muslims say that members of ISIS aren't even muslim. Both groups are wrong. ISIS represents a particular strand of Islam, and yes they are muslims. In order to understand ISIS, it's important to understand two things: the origins of their interpretation of Islam, and the political environment of the Middle East.

Their particular strand of Islam is Salafism, or more commonly known as Wahabism in western media. It was started back in the 1700's by a religious figure named Abdulwahab in what is now known as Saudi Arabia. He believed that people around him were deviating from what he thought was the pure form of Islam. Abdulwahab advocated using violence to force people to submit to his version of Islam. While he had a few followers, he got chased away by many tribes. Around the same time, the Al-Saud family was conquering territory and trying to establish a kingdom. They allied with Abdulwahabs followers, who were known as the Ikhwan (not the same ikhwan as in modern day Egypt) for two reasons - The Al-Sauds wanted religious legitimacy, and the ikhwan were pretty good fighters.

Of course, this would be all fine and dandy, if it wasn't for the fact that the Arabian Peninsula was part of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottomans didn't like the idea of the Al-Saud tribe having their own kingdom, and swiftly crushed the uprising. There were numerous attempts by the Al-Sauds to start a kingdom, and they finally succeeded in the early 20th century, mainly due to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire during WWI. The current regime in Saudi the the Third Saudi State.

So, back to Salafism. The current Al-Sauds aligned with the Ikhwan/Salafists so they could defeat all the other tribes in the area. the Salafists made a demand that the newly minted Saudi Arabia live by their moral code. The Saudi royal family agreed, and now the country is run by two families - the royal family, the Al-Sauds - and the religious authority family, the As-Sheikhs.

However, there is one problem with this arrangement. In Salafist ideology, there is no such thing as a King. Monarchs do not exist in their world view. The leader should be a Caliph. This contradiction eventually caused a massive problem back in the 1970s. Young men who studied Salafist ideology wanted to overthrow the King. They went so far as to take over the grand mosque in Mekkah, which is the muslim equivalent of the Vatican. This happened in 1979. Once the royal family suppressed this uprising, they knew the problem on their hands had just become very serious. This event is massively significant, and I'm really surprised that it is never mentioned in any discussion about the Middle East.

The royal family now had a problem of young men wanting to start Jihad in Saudi Arabia. So what did they do? Instead of pushing the Salafists further away, they brought them closer. They pretty much told the Salafists, "You want to start Jihad? Fine. Just don't do it here. We'll pay for you to do it elsewhere." Soon after this the Saudis and Salafists started building schools all over the muslim world, teaching their strict interpretation of Islam.

Soon after, in the early 80s, the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Now all these jihadis in Saudi could go fight in jihad. The Al-Sauds were glad that they could go do jihad somewhere else and not in Saudi. This arrangement worked out well for the Al-Sauds. But this strategy backfired on them when the Soviets left Afghanistan in the late 80s. Now all these battle hardened jihadis wanted to come home! And bring jihad with them! Since the 90s the Al-Sauds have been cracking down on the extremists.

I'm sure there's a lot I'm missing out on Saudi history, but hopefully I covered the important topics that never seem to get mentioned.

Now, we have to talk about Western involvement in the region. I'll try to keep this as brief as possible lol

- In the early 20th century, the Ottoman empire collapses, and the Europeans divide up the Middle East, without any regard to geography or cultural or religious lines.

- In Syria, the minority Alawi were put in control. In Iraq, the minority Sunni were put in control. The Kurds, who aren't even Arab, weren't even given a country.

- Western countries supported brutal dictators. This severely damaged the psychology of the people, and was part of the reason for the rise of Islamic militant groups.

- And of course, the creation of Israel, and Israels brutal policy towards Palestinians and Lebanon created massive problems in the Middle East.

Ok.. this post is getting way too long... there's no way to explain the Middle East in a single post. Or a single book even...



--------------------


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