Greece Referendum Options

[Mertay]

Being a neighbor to my country (and can even see a Greek island from where I live), time to time I followed whats going on there economically specially for the last 5-6 years.

The referendum result sends a strong message, one has to admire how much they suffered and yet still strong and proudly they wave their flag.

I hope it will be beneficial and make it easier for what struggles they will be facing in the future.

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This post has been edited by Mertay: Jul 5 2015, 09:14 PM

[fzalfa]

f***k the europe

since we are in europe, living cost a lot, everything is going down, euro government is a pile of shit

We, in france, are numerous to want to exit the europe.

Like many other european people.....

Laurent

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[Marek Rojewski]

They proudly wave their flag? Their whole nation gave themselves to a group insanity, that they could do an insignificant amount of worthless work-comedy and in that way earn a good living. While the "system" blame is upon European Union, because it gave the tools, that the fools could use to destroy their own country, the typical Greek is also responsible, as much as one believes in democracy. I don't believe in it, but most of them does, so they should try to change their foolish ways before it was too late.

Now they don't deserve any help, and their loan should be mercilessly taken back. Of course I have nothing against the Greek people storming the houses of their leaders (who lead for the last 20-30 years) and just put them all on trial, confiscate their wealth, and hang them afterwards. While it is drastic, after a certain point there is no way to treat a rooting limb, other than cutting it away (and again of course the leaders that they could catch are just puppets to their sponsors etc. so little would change, but it can be assumed that they were not totally unwilling tools, so they are good enough for example to be made of them).

Helping them to keep their mental disorder (the super overgrown bureaucracy) will only harm them more and more.

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[wrk]

We, in france, are numerous to want to exit the europe.

.. but not the majority

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[fzalfa]

This is not a politicaly oriented message, it's a cry from the heart

.. but not the majority wink.gif

i can asume that: around me, a lot of different people, are bored about our government crappy idea and ideology about a lot of stuff.
we are bored about stranger's preference, we are bored about immigrate's favoritism.

take a look at the social networks, read the comment about news ...

i do not have any hanger for these people, but for our ACTUAL government.

everyday we have examples of not really equitability in our laws, per example, a man born in france who works all his live can have a retreat, then an immigrant can have more money to be helped without working even only a few day !!!

and we, who works, we pay for them, we pay for our childs education cause government have actualy giveup... he prefere to cut down our history program, to do not learn the french's past, they learn to our child the shame to have been a colonialist country, the shame to have a roof under the head, the shame to have parents who works to pay them a cool life....

cause if you are not a socialy helped people, your are not a normal people !

it's a scandalous, young immigrant peoples destroy everything, insult you, burn your car, and NO ONE IS DOING ANYTHING !!!

THEY ARE IN THEIR RIGHT !! you mark my word ?? THEIR RIGHT

everything runing in the wrong sens, because our political peoples are out the reality, they promote the idea of a nice world with everyone is living together.

You cannot mix people who won't to mix with you, and who , at least want to destroy you.

this is my opinion, and to my french reader, be sur, if need i'll take the weapons to fight for my LIBERTY !

i already have done it for other peoples in other country. (yugo, afganistan and other....)

me and my wife are considerating the posibility of moving to a country who respect his cityzen.

the france is DEAD, my FRANCE is dead

Laurent

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[Mertay]

They proudly wave their flag? Their whole nation gave themselves to a group insanity, that they could do an insignificant amount of worthless work-comedy and in that way earn a good living. While the "system" blame is upon European Union, because it gave the tools, that the fools could use to destroy their own country, the typical Greek is also responsible, as much as one believes in democracy. I don't believe in it, but most of them does, so they should try to change their foolish ways before it was too late.

Now they don't deserve any help, and their loan should be mercilessly taken back. Of course I have nothing against the Greek people storming the houses of their leaders (who lead for the last 20-30 years) and just put them all on trial, confiscate their wealth, and hang them afterwards. While it is drastic, after a certain point there is no way to treat a rooting limb, other than cutting it away (and again of course the leaders that they could catch are just puppets to their sponsors etc. so little would change, but it can be assumed that they were not totally unwilling tools, so they are good enough for example to be made of them).

Helping them to keep their mental disorder (the super overgrown bureaucracy) will only harm them more and more.

I'm not really sure who's to blame on how it started. No country's citizen questions when his government makes life easier for him, they probably thought they were simply doing good I guess.

Also majority isn't political, watched CNN last night where they were interviewing a young girl and she was open to say she had no idea of whats going on and doesn't understand economy so didn't vote at all

As to how to fix everything, the solution isn't shrinking their economy which shrunk a devastating 25% for the last 6 years and is the main reason not much changed (even got worse). They have to stabilize and strengthen their economy to be able to pay, if they can't pay anyone not only them but everybody will be hurt. It's a mess I agree, but cutting heads off isn't a solution.

We also have Ireland, Spain and Italy. The actual fear is them collapsing as well if the balances shake too much. So as said everybody has something to lose in the European area if Greece economy (truly) collapse.

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[Mertay]

This is not a politicaly oriented message, it's a cry from the heart
...
Laurent

About immigration problem in France, since I was a kid I had friends complain about it.

Turkey had this problem internally but some-what managed it on the long run. There is something called "cultural assimilation", basically it happens when someone migrates to another country and feels more at home there compared to where he came from in time.

But it takes a long time and never works perfect, @wrk would probably know about this too as many Turkish people migrated to Germany in the 60-70's as workers. Some bonded with the German culture/society while others who insists to me are miserable cause they can't also bond with Turkish society anymore either...

Migration necessarily isn't a bad thing for a country but it has to be controlled, my guess is France couldn't manage this correctly but nonetheless its still a great country and hopefully not to late to turn things positively.

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[fzalfa]

Migration necessarily isn't a bad thing for a country but it has to be controlled, my guess is France couldn't manage this correctly but nonetheless its still a great country and hopefully not to late to turn things positively.

we will see at the 2017 presidential election, i think we must count with Marine Le Pen, no one is the position to help us.

the solcialist are actualy at the exercice of presidence, they lamentably fail !!!!!!

other chalenger are crappy or are involved in stranges affairs.

french people need a real leader, a leader who love our country, who love it citizen....who make for us , not for them !!

in any case, if she is elected and if she fail, people will go down the street to take the powa.

i'm ready to help

Laurent

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[Mertay]

Someone on TV today said 30% of the population in Greece is retired and almost 50% of the young generation can't find a job. So basically the young works for the retired and the retied gives them some "allowance" to survive...this is really sad.

Even with the needed reforms it might take 40 years for this crisis to resolve, if they stay in euro.

If they leave euro zone and return to their own currency, then they can infate that money (inflation-England used this after ww2 to rebuild the country) and handle the situation much easier, but if this happens other country's will follow (everybody wants the easy way out) and will lead to the collapse of euro zone.

The thing I'm not sure of is why not print more money for Greece? almost the whole economic point of the eurozone was to gain such power USA has as they can print all the money they want...

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This post has been edited by Mertay: Jul 7 2015, 10:39 PM

[Marek Rojewski]

USA has no power on money printing. Federal Bank is a private company.

Greece must pay for their foolish socialistic ways. They should sell some of their islands to the highest bidder, and put that money into reforming the country, while maintaining what they already promised by law.

Of course they probably won't do any of this, because that actually make some sense, and common sense is a commodity totally alien to them.

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[wrk]

Greece must pay for their foolish socialistic ways. They should sell some of their islands to the highest bidder, and put that money into reforming the country, while maintaining what they already promised by law.

Of course they probably won't do any of this, because that actually make some sense, and common sense is a commodity totally alien to them.

If they only would start to do something against tax evasion. Tax is taken from the source for employees, 2/3 of the population. Everybody else, including companies, can more or less declare what they want or not at all, 1/3 of the population, nobody checks on them. For 6 months Minister of Finance Yanis Varoufakis prefered to enjoy the media spotlight instead of doing anything. At least this would send a signal that greece really want to change something. I still hope they find a solution thought and stop wasting time Brussels.

we will see at the 2017 presidential election, i think we must count with Marine Le Pen, no one is the position to help us.

the solcialist are actualy at the exercice of presidence, they lamentably fail !!!!!!

other chalenger are crappy or are involved in stranges affairs.

french people need a real leader, a leader who love our country, who love it citizen....who make for us , not for them !!

in any case, if she is elected and if she fail, people will go down the street to take the powa.

i'm ready to help

Laurent

Marine Le Pen, daughter of Jean-Marie Le Pen, the founder and president of the Front National (FN) up to 2011 and still today President of Honore. Marine Le Pen toke over the presidency in 2011, means FN is “Le Pen”. Marine Le Pen tries to be a bit more moderate in her political orientation, but is still far-right positioned. Lots of long term FN voters and members still share the same ideology of Jean-Marie Le Pen !!

Just to give a few examples of what FN’s former president had to say in recent years:

- the gas chambers used to kill jews in the Holocaust were “merely a detail in the history of the second world war”

- the Nazi occupation of France was not “particularly inhumane”.

- Philippe Pétain, leader of France’s Nazi collaborators: “I have never considered Marshall Pétain a traitor”

- called France’s spanish-born prime minister, Manuel Valls, “the immigrant”.

- making an “oven load” of the very popular jewish singer Patrick Bruel, an implied reference to concentration camp ovens.

- and so on ..


Nice choice Laurent .. your France you are dreaming of is not DEAD as you said, it never existed and hopefully never will !!

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[Todd Simpson]

SPOT ON!!!!

As you guys may have noticed, in Europe, "Far Right" groups have been gaining traction in European politics for quite some time now. In some countries, nationalist parties are major players in politics, such as in the National Front in France, True Finns in Finland, Austria, Jobbik Hungary, LDPR in Russia, MHP in Turkey, the Golden Dawn in Greece, the Armenian Revolutionary Federation in Armenia, etc.

Golden Dawn for example are actually Fascist, despite what they might say. This hardcore shift to isolationism and blaming the poor/weak/disenfranchised is shockingly similar to what we saw in Europe in the early 1940's and it ended badly.

Here is a quick vid to explain the critical bits. Personally, I think what is written on our statue of liberty should be taken as a core value. It's not an easy path, but it's a righteous one.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

If they only would start to do something against tax evasion. Tax is taken from the source for employees, 2/3 of the population. Everybody else, including companies, can more or less declare what they want or not at all, 1/3 of the population, nobody checks on them. For 6 months Minister of Finance Yanis Varoufakis prefered to enjoy the media spotlight instead of doing anything. At least this would send a signal that greece really want to change something. I still hope they find a solution thought and stop wasting time Brussels.



Marine Le Pen, daughter of Jean-Marie Le Pen, the founder and president of the Front National (FN) up to 2011 and still today President of Honore. Marine Le Pen toke over the presidency in 2011, means FN is “Le Pen”. Marine Le Pen tries to be a bit more moderate in her political orientation, but is still far-right positioned. Lots of long term FN voters and members still share the same ideology of Jean-Marie Le Pen !!

Just to give a few examples of what FN’s former president had to say in recent years:

- the gas chambers used to kill jews in the Holocaust were “merely a detail in the history of the second world war”

- the Nazi occupation of France was not “particularly inhumane”.

- Philippe Pétain, leader of France’s Nazi collaborators: “I have never considered Marshall Pétain a traitor”

- called France’s spanish-born prime minister, Manuel Valls, “the immigrant”.

- making an “oven load” of the very popular jewish singer Patrick Bruel, an implied reference to concentration camp ovens.

- and so on ..


Nice choice Laurent .. your France you are dreaming of is not DEAD as you said, it never existed and hopefully never will !!

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[Mertay]

...

I agree 100% to your comment but to be honest, both of us are from country's which are relatively young and has multi-culture in its blood. Not logical but I think emotionally its hard for us to understand them, and I believe its more about emotion than logic which raises these issues for them.

Having been built on a long history and culture is awesome, but can become a weakness when colliding with change or at least elasticity. They have much to preserve during this and I can only imagine how hard it is for them.

On the other hand just to support; cause of Syrian war Turkey accepted not thousands but millions of refuges. To be honest I don't think many of them will ever go back when the war is over. They (the rich or more educated ones) opened or found jobs, bought or rented houses so basically many of them migrated here.

If one thinks Muslims migrated to a Muslim country and things should be ok, they are very wrong. Lots of protests happened here soon later cause of various reasons. Connecting migration problems to (only) religion to me doesn't make much sense.

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This post has been edited by Mertay: Jul 14 2015, 12:47 AM

[Todd Simpson]

Immigration is a perpetual issue to be sure. Immigrants created what is now my home country. (once they quelled the native population of course, which is still a stain on our history). So to hear folks, especially here, be sooooooo anti "immigrant" just strikes me as simply Un patriotic. Immigration causes problems to be sure. But it's the very dynamism that immigration brings with it that creates strong and resilient societies. Just like a diverse genetic base makes a resilient population of any type of organism.

I agree 100% to your comment but to be honest, both of us are from country's which are relatively young and has multi-culture in its blood. Not logical but I think emotionally its hard for us to understand them, and I believe its more about emotion than logic which raises these issues for them.

Having been built on a long history and culture is awesome, but can become a weakness when colliding with change or at least elasticity. They have much to preserve during this and I can only imagine how hard it is for them.

On the other hand just to support; cause of Syrian war Turkey accepted not thousands but millions of refuges. To be honest I don't think many of them will ever go back when the war is over. They (the rich or more educated ones) opened or found jobs, bought or rented houses so basically many of them migrated here.

If one thinks Muslims migrated to a Muslim country and things should be ok, they are very wrong. Lots of protests happened here soon later cause of various reasons. Connecting migration problems to (only) religion to me doesn't make much sense.

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[AK Rich]

So to hear folks, especially here, be sooooooo anti "immigrant" just strikes me as simply Un patriotic.

Just curious here. Do you make no distinction between legal and illegal immigration? I don't recall hearing anyone say that immigration must be stopped and the borders closed so that no-one may come here. So, I have no idea who you are talking about when you mention people who are "anti immigrant" except for maybe some fringe extremists like maybe the KKK or Neo Nazi groups that are far removed from the folks that are concerned about illegal immigration and rightly so. Painting those that have concerns about illegal immigration and our immigration policy as "anti immigrant" and unpatriotic is completely disingenuous as well as offensive and gets us nowhere in addressing the real problems that exist and put the general public at risk.

Notice that nowhere on the Statue of Liberty does it say or refer to in any way anything about repeat criminal offenders.
Folks with concerns about our immigration policy only wish to have would be immigrants properly screened and limited as to not overwhelm the system and in reality are not "anti immigrant." So the only way your comment makes any sense at all to me is if your answer to my question is that you do not make any distinction between legal and illegal immigration, which is fine if that is your view but lets make it clear what that view is, which to me sounds much like anarchy.

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[fzalfa]

....

how someone can spend so many time to write a message to the objectif to discredit other person's ideas, i'am astonished !!!

the front nationnal is the only french politic formation who have never govern our country, all the other had govern at least one time, we see the results....

i'm ready to let Marine Lepen govern our country, let's see, maybe it's good for us.

Jean marie Lepen is a great provocator, and any people in the opposition try to use any word hi say against him.

it's not fair, but this is the politic jungle.

and all FN subscriber aren't agree with him....

now, if people like N sarkozy take a lot of the FN program, it's because it's not bad as some people try make us believe.

in any case, if this is not the right solution, the next step is the revolution, a take over or a civil war

WRK, we are not agree, ok, but d'on't try to put discred on my believe, this is the start of the other's respect.

i hope you aren"t like our actual governement ? shameless and without honor ?

and don"t talk me about my honor , pride, etc...... i have serv my country as much as i haven"t more room on my uniform to add another decoration.

Laurent

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This post has been edited by fzalfa: Jul 14 2015, 08:04 PM

[wrk]

....

how someone can spend so many time to write a message to the objectif to discredit other person's ideas, i'am astonished !!!

the front nationnal is the only french politic formation who have never govern our country, all the other had govern at least one time, we see the results....

i'm ready to let Marine Lepen govern our country, let's see, maybe it's good for us.

Jean marie Lepen is a great provocator, and any people in the opposition try to use any word hi say against him.

it's not fair, but this is the politic jungle.

and all FN subscriber aren't agree with him....

now, if people like N sarkozy take a lot of the FN program, it's because it's not bad as some people try make us believe.

in any case, if this is not the right solution, the next step is the revolution, a take over or a civil war

WRK, we are not agree, ok, but d'on't try to put discred on my believe, this is the start of the other's respect.

i hope you aren"t like our actual governement ? shameless and without honor ?

and don"t talk me about my honor , pride, etc...... i have serv my country as much as i haven"t more room on my uniform to add another decoration.

Laurent

“Revolution”, “take over”, “civil war”, “i’ll take the weapons to fight for my LIBERTY” .. Man, what are you talking about?

How i was disrespectful by pointing out some facts and history about the political party you want to see as the next government of France. If Le Pen is a provocateur or not, people build there opinion about politicians based on what they say in public. Thats what politicians do .. talk in public and try to convince the citizens to vote for them, their ideas and program and yes, every word count of what they say! … seriously, you and i know that these things he said was not just a little accident

As said, Marine Le Pen tries to distance her political direction to what Jean-Marie and the FN initially stands for. With this strategy she is reaching out to gain new supporter and votes. Especially the younger generation who never thought to vote FN one day.

If she really wanted to be so different to the believes and ideology of her father, then she should have build her own party, but she preferred to continue her political career as the president of this very same FN as she didn’t wanted to loose the very loyal “fan base” gained by Jean-Marie. Means, she still accept this ideology within her party. This fact should disqualify her to be a voteable option.

You may have your believes, being a patriot and what not, but you should be able to accept a critical opinion to your believes without being hurt in your pride and honor.

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[klasaine]

Nice to see that it's not just Americans that jump down each other's throats ideallogically
We are all not so different - especially France and the US, politically speaking.

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This post has been edited by klasaine: Jul 15 2015, 01:22 PM

[PosterBoy]

There are a lot of extreme right wing political parties taming down their public personas and rewording policies to try and get the disillusioned on their side, but they are all just sheep in wolves clothing their agendas and views haven't changed. Look at UKIP in the UK a step or two left of the BNP possibly and some of what they say may resonate with many people but I'm sure if we read their small print.....

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[fzalfa]

i'm not hurted in my honor and pride, i know where is my duty

i know what i can accept and what i want to fight, Lepen or not, i do not care in the name of, i care in ideas

when i see older of us who are living in misery, and when i see immigrant front arabic country have more money from us than this old man, who have work hard all his live !!! i'm disgusted

and it's not an isolated case, many people are in this one !!!!

i don"t know where you live wrk, from the right or from the left, with or without opinion, but you must admit the truth: we need a real change in our political life !!

if tomorow someone can provide solutions, even if he is from left, i agree !!!

do you understand what i mean ? i'm not attached to a political ideology, i only want solutions !!

“Revolution”, “take over”, “civil war”, “i’ll take the weapons to fight for my LIBERTY” .. Man, what are you talking about?

Man, i know the price of my life, i know how it worth and what i'm ready to do to keep it mine

as i see, you never have to fight for your life......i do, and i'm still alive

Laurent

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