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> How To Use Delay In A Band Or Live Situation?
Mudbone
post Sep 19 2015, 03:45 AM
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I've always been curious how delay pedals are used in a band rehearsal or live situation. From what I know, the delay is supposed to be based on the beat - 1/4 notes, 1/8 notes, etc... So when you set your pedal at a certain note value, it repeats at exactly that value. But isn't it messed up if you play it off the beat you have chosen?


For example, if you're setting your delay for 1/8 notes at 120 bpm, doesn't the timing get thrown off when you play it at another tempo? Most people cannot play anything at the same exact tempo, so don't things get messed up?

For all you guys that play live, how do you use your delay?

This post has been edited by Mudbone: Sep 19 2015, 03:47 AM


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jstcrsn
post Sep 19 2015, 12:11 PM
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your right , for things to sound good , the delay needs to coincide with the tempo of the song. That is why most delays now have tap tempo and if it doesn't , I would not get it.

It does not take long to get use taping your tempo in a live show, many times I will just tap in with drummers count in. This might not be perfectly timed but It should be close enough( If you have good enough timing huh.gif )

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Sep 19 2015, 12:16 PM
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Ben Higgins
post Sep 19 2015, 08:22 PM
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How to use delay..

Wait for the drummer to set his kit up and tell the band you've quit.

That's delay right there biggrin.gif


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klasaine
post Sep 20 2015, 03:03 AM
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Depends on how you're gonna use it.

If you want longer obvious delay then yeah, it needs to be in tempo ... or at least some division or multiple of the tempo.
If you just want to thicken your tone a bit then you can use a relatively short delay setting (80ms to 250ms) with only one or two repeats, not too hot in the mix of your wet/dry signal and it really doesn't matter what the tempo is. I almost always have a single repeat of around 250 ms. That would be an 1/8 note if our tempo is 120.
Here's a cool chart for calculating delay times ... http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-bpmtempotime.htm

*Even if you like longer delays for some space and ambiance around your sound as long as 'mix' of wet to dry is less than say 30% it won't get in the way.

**Classic 'long' delay tones of the late 60s and 70s (think Pink Floyd) were done with analog delays (tape echo) and they drifted big time. And most stuff wasn't done to a click track either, so ...

This post has been edited by klasaine: Sep 20 2015, 07:00 AM


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Sensible Jones
post Sep 20 2015, 03:51 PM
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One way I used to get around it (before any Delays had a Tap Tempo built in) was to just do a muted strike on the strings so the Drummer could get the Tempo from his monitor feed. I was quite fortunate with that particular Band in that Gary was such a good drummer that he could remember the beat of each different song and played them exactly the same every time. We nicknamed him the Human Metronome!!
smile.gif


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Mudbone
post Sep 20 2015, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Sep 19 2015, 03:22 PM) *
How to use delay..

Wait for the drummer to set his kit up and tell the band you've quit.

That's delay right there biggrin.gif


laugh.gif laugh.gif

QUOTE (klasaine @ Sep 19 2015, 10:03 PM) *
Depends on how you're gonna use it.

If you want longer obvious delay then yeah, it needs to be in tempo ... or at least some division or multiple of the tempo.
If you just want to thicken your tone a bit then you can use a relatively short delay setting (80ms to 250ms) with only one or two repeats, not too hot in the mix of your wet/dry signal and it really doesn't matter what the tempo is. I almost always have a single repeat of around 250 ms. That would be an 1/8 note if our tempo is 120.
Here's a cool chart for calculating delay times ... http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-bpmtempotime.htm

*Even if you like longer delays for some space and ambiance around your sound as long as 'mix' of wet to dry is less than say 30% it won't get in the way.

**Classic 'long' delay tones of the late 60s and 70s (think Pink Floyd) were done with analog delays (tape echo) and they drifted big time. And most stuff wasn't done to a click track either, so ...


So I guess it depends on how it's being used. So does someone like the Edge have many different delay pedals for different songs? Many of his songs are dependent on perfectly timing the delay.

I actually won a MXR Carbon Copy from GMC many years ago. It's a great pedal, but as I was playing around with it, I was just thinking how it would be used in a live situation, and that's what started this whole conversation laugh.gif It's analog, so the setting the delay is completely arbitrary. Would I have to readjust after every song, assuming it was critical to the sound I was going after?

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Sep 19 2015, 07:11 AM) *
your right , for things to sound good , the delay needs to coincide with the tempo of the song. That is why most delays now have tap tempo and if it doesn't , I would not get it.

It does not take long to get use taping your tempo in a live show, many times I will just tap in with drummers count in. This might not be perfectly timed but It should be close enough( If you have good enough timing huh.gif )


I don't plan on doing live shows anytime soon, but it looks like I might have to invest in such a pedal wink.gif


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"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens


Gear:

Guitars: Uncle Rufus' Twanger Classic
Amps: Mississippi Boom Box
Mojo: Hammer of Odin and a pair of Ox gonads
Inspiration: Samuel Adams Boston Lager

Zero to Hero: 1,387/10,000

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klasaine
post Sep 20 2015, 07:42 PM
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The Edge uses both an analog delay - EH Deluxe Memory Man and a TC Electronics 2290 two rack space digital delay.

It's pretty easy set an analog delay when you're recording. You've got time to tweak settings.
Live: a digital delay or at least digital controller for the delay time is needed (preferably with tap tempo) to set the tempos.

Since it's pretty tricky to set a specific delay time on the (analog) Memory Man, Edge 'live' took to using two Korg SDD 3000 digital rack delays in the mid eighties. Later he also incorporated the TC Electronics 2290 Digital Delay. Many tunes use two processors - for example “Where The Streets Have No Name” uses two parallel delays with different delay times.

I think at this point 'live' The Edge has multiple delays and a dedicated tech to select his delay patches for the various songs in the set.

http://www.amnesta.net/edge_delay/
https://www.google.com/search?q=the+edge%27...CFUvTgAodHS4L0Q

*You also have to be in true stereo to really get it right.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Sep 20 2015, 07:45 PM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Sep 21 2015, 08:27 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Sep 20 2015, 04:03 AM) *
If you just want to thicken your tone a bit then you can use a relatively short delay setting (80ms to 250ms) with only one or two repeats, [b]not too hot in the mix of your wet/dry signal and it really doesn't matter what the tempo is. I almost always have a single repeat of around 250 ms.[/b] That would be an 1/8 note if our tempo is 120.
Here's a cool chart for calculating delay times ... http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-bpmtempotime.htm


This! It's my most common use of delay as well. And it works with any tempo.

However I must say I too would like to get better at more complex delays - I think it's an important part of many killer guitar sounds. Doesn't have to be the obvious U2 style delay, there are lots of other applications.


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klasaine
post Sep 21 2015, 03:24 PM
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A pretty efficient way of discovering different delay usages is to buy a TC Electronics 'Flashback' dly pedal (or one of it's many variants, download (free) the 'toneprint' app and allow yourself 5 or 6 hours to experiment.

http://www.tcelectronic.com/flashback-delay/
http://www.tcelectronic.com/flashback-delay/toneprints/

And do the same with Reverb ...
http://www.tcelectronic.com/hall-of-fame-reverb/
http://www.tcelectronic.com/hall-of-fame-reverb/toneprints/


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 22 2015, 08:39 PM
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Me too smile.gif I've done the "EDGE" delay trick by stacking some delays in TH2. But mostly I'm using delay as a tone shaping tool on rythm patches and then an extra delay on lead patches for echoe, but the patch setting is usually arbitrary around 350ms or something for lead delay.

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Sep 21 2015, 03:27 AM) *
This! It's my most common use of delay as well. And it works with any tempo.

However I must say I too would like to get better at more complex delays - I think it's an important part of many killer guitar sounds. Doesn't have to be the obvious U2 style delay, there are lots of other applications.


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