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> 90% Of New Guitarists Quit In First Year
Mertay
post Oct 5 2015, 11:28 PM
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http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/indust...ng_digital.html


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klasaine
post Oct 6 2015, 12:10 AM
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Their premise is flawed.
One is not a 'guitarist' in the first year. They're just someone who's bought a guitar. Most people quit music after a year unless they're forced by their parents to continue (which isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO). It's always been that way ... always.


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 6 2015, 07:54 AM
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Most businesses fail in the first year as well. The first year of any new venture is often the hardest year.

Ken mentioned that most folks quite unless prodded by their parents. I can certainly say that was NOT the case with me. I begged for a guitar for years. From the age of 6 onward until I got one at 14. After that, I required no prodding. I practiced non stop ever since smile.gif Then again exceptions make the rule, not break the rule. hmm.

But it's not that way for everyone. Some folks HATE to practice. And you can hear it in their playing. If one has to be forced to play, it's probably not going to work out well for the person being forced. sad.gif

How about you guys?

QUOTE (Mertay @ Oct 5 2015, 06:28 PM) *


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bleez
post Oct 6 2015, 08:28 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 6 2015, 12:10 AM) *
Their premise is flawed.
One is not a 'guitarist' in the first year. They're just someone who's bought a guitar. Most people quit music after a year unless they're forced by their parents to continue (which isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO). It's always been that way ... always.

+1. I'd go along with that.
learning guitar is hard. it takes dedication and time. Not everyone realises what is involved.

QUOTE
"If Fender's apps can hear your play or at least know how frequently you do, it could recommend you buy new guitar strings or one of its effects pedals. Shortcuts from app to app to products could keep players in the Fender ecosystem."

this statement makes me feel sad and dirty sad.gif


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Kristofer Dahl
post Oct 6 2015, 08:43 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 6 2015, 01:10 AM) *
Their premise is flawed.
One is not a 'guitarist' in the first year. They're just someone who's bought a guitar. Most people quit music after a year unless they're forced by their parents to continue (which isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO) . It's always been that way ... always.


You knew you'd had me going here ph34r.gif

You used the word force, and unless it's about making someone eat their vitally important medicine I hate that word. And I certainly don't think it is a good method, for kids fall in love with an instrument.

I believe in inspiring and perhaps even make them beg a little, as in Todd's case. I think that creates incentive to study something thoroughly.


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Monica Gheorghev...
post Oct 6 2015, 09:05 AM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Oct 6 2015, 07:28 AM) *
learning guitar is hard. it takes dedication and time. Not everyone realises what is involved.

I'm totally agree smile.gif

Most people don't realize what it really means to learn to play at guitar or no matter what other instrument they choose. Seems easy until you touch the instrument. After few months already people try to find excuses to not practice. I hate when people make this.

From my point of view, I think those 90% which quit in first year are just people who talk about playing at guitar not people who play at guitar.
If you want to name yourself a guitarist you must show much more (which means practice, practice, practice) than just to hold a guitar in your arms.
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fzalfa
post Oct 6 2015, 11:00 AM
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QUOTE
learning guitar is hard. it takes dedication and time. Not everyone realises what is involved.


as Monica, i agree
and all of us here know how is hard to learn guitar !

Laurent


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jstcrsn
post Oct 6 2015, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 6 2015, 12:10 AM) *
Their premise is flawed.
One is not a 'guitarist' in the first year. They're just someone who's bought a guitar. Most people quit music after a year unless they're forced by their parents to continue (which isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO). It's always been that way ... always.

with me , I had to force my parents to buy a guitar and force them to pay for lessons, okay maybe " strongly encourage them "

A quote from a radio host ( Neal Boortz for those that care) " 99.9 percent of people are exactly where they should be in life based on every decision they have made " . This is so true and covers everything from guitar , to people in our lives( that make or break us), to the job that we have . This means that you are responsible for where you are at . I know this doesn't sit well with the BS America is buying into right about it being someone else s fault and someone else s responsibility to provide for your wants and desires, and even your needs . What moral ground do we have to reach into someone's pocket (by force of a gun) and take money from them to give to someone else. I better stop now ohmy.gif
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klasaine
post Oct 6 2015, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Oct 6 2015, 12:43 AM) *
You knew you'd had me going here ph34r.gif

You used the word force, and unless it's about making someone eat their vitally important medicine I hate that word. And I certainly don't think it is a good method, for kids fall in love with an instrument.

I believe in inspiring and perhaps even make them beg a little, as in Todd's case. I think that creates incentive to study something thoroughly.


When I said force I (obviously, come on) wasn't talking about people/kids who 'want' to play or that I necessarily think it's a good idea.
I was speaking in regard to the OP premise of quitting after the first year. The only folks who don't quit after the first year are those that want to do it or those that are forced.

*When and where I grew up most kids had music lessons for at least a year regardless of whether they wanted too or not. It was part of your education. And you know, there's a part of me that doesn't think that's such a terrible thing - as long as the parent understands that in all likelyhood, junior is not going to be another Heifetz. Don't lock them in the room to practice and don't hit their hands when they make a mistake. A little arts education never hurt anybody. My .02

This post has been edited by klasaine: Oct 6 2015, 06:48 PM


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Mertay
post Oct 6 2015, 05:35 PM
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About forcing; some of you know I had some serious classical music education in college (during the 2.nd year I went to a different college for music tech. education), I met many instrumentalists who's parents were in orchestras.

I have to say many of them had social problems. Never noticed anything seriously bad, but they simply weren't living a life of a college student. Parent probably wanted them to make a living and be prepared starting from an early age to guarantie their financial income when they grow up, but other problems occur with such presure.

About the 90% thing; I'd guess around 50% of the quitters are around 12-14 years old. In my experience, specially if the beginner is working or going to college his chances to quit is really low. Worst case he'll play acoustic guitar (pop stuff) instead of electric guitar.

Kids are harder to motivate, specially ones that aren't into any sports or don't have a competitive character. I also teach guitar in my area and have friends in universitys or freelance and we all agree on this. For kids thats more into computer games etc. I have to ease down on stuff like finger excersises and add more songs to the program...this results in a longer than needed period to teach the same thing, but its definitly better than the kid losing interest.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Oct 6 2015, 05:35 PM


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klasaine
post Oct 6 2015, 06:51 PM
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Conversely, many adults I know tell me that they wish their parents had made them practice more and/or continue with lessons because they'd "sure like to play (or be better than they are) now".
It ain't all candies and rainbows. Know your kids, know your students.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Oct 6 2015, 06:53 PM


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Arpeggio
post Oct 6 2015, 07:36 PM
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Interesting topic. How many Violinists or Flautists quit in the first year? would it be 90% also, or less (I would think less)

Perhaps the guitar is going to have more people giving up after the first year simply for the reason that it's so popular?

There's no Flute Hero for the Playstation, should there be? and what would the interface be like? could it double as the interface for Bagpipe Hero also?


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klasaine
post Oct 6 2015, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (Arpeggio @ Oct 6 2015, 11:36 AM) *
Interesting topic. How many Violinists or Flautists quit in the first year? would it be 90% also, or less (I would think less)

Perhaps the guitar is going to have more people giving up after the first year simply for the reason that it's so popular?

There's no Flute Hero for the Playstation, should there be? and what would the interface be like? could it double as the interface for Bagpipe Hero also?


Yes, there is. It's called 'school band'. And it is one reason that a lot of not-guitarists (winds, brass, strings, percussion students) do continue. They've got an interactive and yet also human/social outlet for their burgeoning avocation. Way more fun than any type of 'simulator'.
When I did teach guitar and bass, the students who usually continued for years, were the ones that played in bands. It's more fun, it's more motivating, you see actual results and it's also social. Masturbating gets boring.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Oct 6 2015, 07:58 PM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Oct 6 2015, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 6 2015, 05:30 PM) *
When I said force I (obviously, come on) wasn't talking about people/kids who 'want' to play or that I necessarily think it's a good idea.
I was speaking in regard to the OP premise of quitting after the first year. The only folks who don't quit after the first year are those that want to do it or those that are forced.

*When and where I grew up most kids had music lessons for at least a year regardless of whether they wanted too or not. It was part of your education. And you know, there's a part of me that doesn't think that's such a terrible thing - as long as the parent understands that in all likelyhood, junior is not going to be another Heifetz. Don't lock them in the room to practice and don't hit their hands when they make a mistake. A little arts education never hurt anybody. My .02


I guess it's fine -

But I would probably still rather let it happen naturally, if the student wants to quit and then starts regretting it, he/she will get back with much more passion. Since I believe you can learn to play at any age if you really want to, I don't see that as a problem.


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Mertay
post Oct 6 2015, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 6 2015, 05:51 PM) *
Conversely, many adults I know tell me that they wish their parents had made them practice more and/or continue with lessons because they'd "sure like to play (or be better than they are) now".
It ain't all candies and rainbows. Know your kids, know your students.


I've always believed in the parents side of story on that conversation biggrin.gif

But when it comes to kids, finding the right teacher is much more difficult. I had a piano teacher when I was 6, really liked playing as a kid but had to change due to change of countrys when I was 10. Hated that teacher and piano was over for me (till college, even then didn't like it...).

But later on classical guitar came along and later the electric...to be honest I never once thought of what would happen if I never quit piano till now, I'd choose the long way to the guitar again if I had to instead of piano.


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klasaine
post Oct 6 2015, 10:52 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Oct 6 2015, 12:16 PM) *
But I would probably still rather let it happen naturally,


When your kid's in school if they don't want to learn how to read or do math do you or are you comfortable with the 'just let it happen naturally' aesthetic. It might (?) but are you gonna take that bet? unsure.gif

Like I said - know your kid, know your student. There are many encouraging ways to instill the need to practice and stick with something.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Oct 6 2015, 11:02 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 6 2015, 11:19 PM
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I get that a lot smile.gif "I really wish I'd learned to play an instrument" to which the only thing I can say is "So did I" smile.gif Many folks start young and quit young. Some restart when they are older and keep with it. We have many folks here at GMC who got "serious" about their instrument a bit later in life. As long as a student is pretty "Hell Bent" on learning, I've noticed they tend to progress quite quickly smile.gif I've had some personal students that were clearly only coming to me for lessons under parental duress. Like Mertay, those students usually do better learning songs they want to play along to and such. It helps them want to learn more.

Not every student is kicking and screaming to get an instrument when they are young. As Mr K says, it was pretty normal at one point for young folks to be given piano/violin or some type of lesson. I went through that too. My parents sent my siblings and I to a piano teacher. I was rejected on the first visit as "Unteachable". My siblings went for another year. Neither sibling retained much from it though. My sister went on to Flute and Violin. But gave up all of it at some point.

As for me, I"m still Hell Bent to play guitar. smile.gif

QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 6 2015, 01:51 PM) *
Conversely, many adults I know tell me that they wish their parents had made them practice more and/or continue with lessons because they'd "sure like to play (or be better than they are) now".
It ain't all candies and rainbows. Know your kids, know your students.


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Kristofer Dahl
post Oct 7 2015, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 6 2015, 11:52 PM) *
When your kid's in school if they don't want to learn how to read or do math do you or are you comfortable with the 'just let it happen naturally' aesthetic. It might (?) but are you gonna take that bet? unsure.gif


With a risk of sounding impossible, I would not worry at all about math problems (etc) - provided the kid is healthy, happy and behaves like a kid.

Having lived all over the world, I have tried several different school systems - and I am a firm believer there is absolutely no need to have a kid sit down and do something they don't want to, in order to learn.

Kids are learning by their nature, so we should just let them be kids - and instead give them optimal condition to play and evolve. Of course this is much harder than having them go to some random school and be taught to sit down and sh*t up. So I realise why there has been a need for traditional schools, but I certainly don't endorse them.

This is why I always wanted to provide a guitar learning environment where the focus is on having fun. I would never tell a student to learn a specific lesson because he/she has to, I think the guideline should be to learn what you like and nothing else. If a learning journey starts with joy and pleasure, future obstacles will easily be overcome. The opposite is not true.


QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 6 2015, 11:52 PM) *
Like I said - know your kid, know your student. There are many encouraging ways to instill the need to practice and stick with something.


Yes, agreed!


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Phil66
post Oct 7 2015, 09:01 PM
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I think this quitting in the first year applies to nearly EVERYTHING. We are usually inspired to play an instrument, carve a sculpture, make a clay pot on a spinning wheel etc etc by a master of their craft. Masters of their craft make it look so so so easy and we all think "Hey, I could do that", then you try and it's like "How the f*** do they do that????". We don't see the hours and hours of effort that they have put in and some people, especially impatient people like many children, move on to something else that looks just as easy and go through the same process.
Human nature I guess, I want it all, I want it now.


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Arpeggio
post Oct 7 2015, 11:25 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 6 2015, 07:54 PM) *
Masturbating gets boring.


It can do. I think if you crack one off in the morning before double maths you get it out the way and might be able to concentrate better (similar the film "Something about Mary" before the date), but too much and it could be a distraction and you won't do as well.

To be honest I didn't do too well at maths.

However, this was mostly because its was taught abstract with no context. All mathematical equations came about in the 1st place due to the need for a problem to be solved, these original problems where never told in maths. It was basically: "This is Pythagoras to work out things about triangles" and not something like "A triangle is the most structurally sound shape in architecture and Pythagoras is used to calculate the optimum dimensions for whatever etc.", I'm making that up as I don't know what the original motivation for Pythagoras was (and was never taught it) but it would have been nice to have had some context in maths to make it interesting.

This post has been edited by Arpeggio: Oct 7 2015, 11:26 PM


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