Gas. What Next? Options

[Mertay]

That day will come but I need to get some practise done or Gab will want to put me in detention
FYI the mic was about one inch from the grille. On acoustic the is no heater in the room. Mic was pointing away from computer which only has one 120mm fan on cpu. Maybe I left the amp on and it is him from that as last recording was full gain.
Cheers buddy
Phil

No biggie, we're trying to match 2 devices that increase gain at the same time (presonus vs gt001) so until figuring out the better blend between their gain settings some noise is always ok+ also analog by nature always have some noise to it. Its the little things now that will make the difference but sure take your time the tones are already cool

[Todd Simpson]

That's part of the process to be sure! Noise is part of recording. Learning to minimize it is a good thing to work on. I think you mentioned some sort of gate/suppressor previously? Having a good gate is very handy for keeping noise under control Finding the perfect setting takes time so that it doesn't kill your sustain.

No biggie, we're trying to match 2 devices that increase gain at the same time (presonus vs gt001) so until figuring out the better blend between their gain settings some noise is always ok+ also analog by nature always have some noise to it. Its the little things now that will make the difference but sure take your time the tones are already cool

[Phil66]

I've just experimented with the mic pointing centre of cone but angled 30 degrees from perpendicular, sounds nice and bright and clear but I think the Hotbird helps with that too .

Will get some sounds to you ASAP.

[Mertay]

I've just experimented with the mic pointing centre of cone but angled 30 degrees from perpendicular, sounds nice and bright and clear but I think the Hotbird helps with that too .

Will get some sounds to you ASAP.

Yeah its always better to work with the dry sound as good as possible cause pedals, reverb, eq etc. can only enhance.

After finding a good spot, record over some backing tracks too. Its common the solo sound not being as good as it is with backings, I always do the detail adjustments over backings so it can cut through but still sound warm. Then add pedals, reverb, eq etc. and do the process again...

Soon later I get used to that backing adjusted solo sound and don't change settings much. My pedal settings rarly change and cause I'm used to such sound, I can adapt to (software) amp changes very quick too when testing stuff...such maturity becomes sort of enhancing a signature sound experience rather than jump from one sound to another but it takes time to start happening.

[Phil66]

Thanks Mertay
I don't actually like playing dry, I find the tone itself makes me play different, maybe that's something else that comes with time. I find the cleaner the tone the more "sensible" I play, the dirtier the tone, the more "crazy" I play so I like to get the character of the tone right first, I don't mind making single changes but I don't like recording dry and adding everything after.
Cheers

[Mertay]

Thanks Mertay
I don't actually like playing dry, I find the tone itself makes me play different, maybe that's something else that comes with time. I find the cleaner the tone the more "sensible" I play, the dirtier the tone, the more "crazy" I play so I like to get the character of the tone right first, I don't mind making single changes but I don't like recording dry and adding everything after.
Cheers

Oh no I ment something different, I also almost never play dry. Thing is if your dry tone (both distorted and clean) is good, then the wet will sound amazing

In reality we adjust everything according to the dry (amped) tone, say if our dry tone is too trebly then we decrease the high's from the pedal and then we'll probably get a muddy sound no matter how hard we try to compansate. Guitar specific fx is never designed to fix a problem but to try make the amp sound simply better.

Its actually good your blackstar has so less knobs to adjust and moving the mic. has so much role on tonal balance. Say if your amp had zillions of eq knobs on it then adjusting this dry tone would be very complicated for you (specially when adding pedals to the chain). Thats a reason why I didn't want you to rush into a new amp, atleast till you get a bit comfortable on tone shaping.

As said record with the dry sound only to listen your amp to figure if it sounds balanced enough inside backing tracks. Limit yourself with knobs on amp, mic. positioning and the level fader in the DAW. It might take a day or 2 but when you'll be certain that these adjustments reach their limit of tonal balance (best they can do), then we'll kick in the pedal and/or gt001 as processor to make it sound amazing

This post has been edited by Mertay: Dec 17 2015, 11:51 PM

[Phil66]

Oh no I ment something different, I also almost never play dry. Thing is if your dry tone (both distorted and clean) is good, then the wet will sound amazing

In reality we adjust everything according to the dry (amped) tone, say if our dry tone is too trebly then we decrease the high's from the pedal and then we'll probably get a muddy sound no matter how hard we try to compansate. Guitar specific fx is never designed to fix a problem but to try make the amp sound simply better.

Its actually good your blackstar has so less knobs to adjust and moving the mic. has so much role on tonal balance. Say if your amp had zillions of eq knobs on it then adjusting this dry tone would be very complicated for you (specially when adding pedals to the chain). Thats a reason why I didn't want you to rush into a new amp, atleast till you get a bit comfortable on tone shaping.

As said record with the dry sound only to listen your amp to figure if it sounds balanced enough inside backing tracks. Limit yourself with knobs on amp, mic. positioning and the level fader in the DAW. It might take a day or 2 but when you'll be certain that these adjustments reach their limit of tonal balance (best they can do), then we'll kick in the pedal and/or gt001 as processor to make it sound amazing

Cheers Mertay,

I did try the pedal last night, it's pretty versatile as far as I can see

Cheers

[Phil66]

Ok folks, here is a little test. Guitar was the PRS Ace, on bridge pickup, SM57 placed as in picture, settings on amp and pedal as in picture. The playing is just noodling. I was switching pedal on and off. The mid edge knob is switched in on the pedal.
If there's anything you want to hear, just let me know the changes you want or if you want one knob adjusting from minimum to maximum in small increments. I've done it all in pictures as it seems the easiest way

Thanks folks,

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/test-18122015







This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 18 2015, 10:11 PM

[Mertay]

Most OD pedals perform too weak on the clean setuped amp but the hotbird seems to be doing a pretty good job, nice! I'm also enjoying the overall vibe

I'd probably slide the mic. a little closer to the center to open up the cleans while decrease highs from the pedals tone knob (or maybe mid. knob since I have no idea which freq.s it changes). A personal thing (definitly not a rule) but I like to keep the overall tonal balance between the dirty and clean tone close so its a bit more comfortable for the listener. Switching on the pedal rises the sound level so we already get enough impact when needed.

When you have time, I want to hear the amps od selected but gain low + pedal on (like how ace demo's it)

[Phil66]

Thanks Mertay,
This was a starting point and also earlier in this thread you said you wanted to hear the capabilities of the Hotbird so I thought I'd give you the contrast of the cleanish amp and dirty pedal. The mid edge knob seems to work like the tone on a Big Muff, it gets thinner in the middle of the turn of the knob.
The mic is pointing at the centre of the speaker, it's a 4x8 cab
FYI this is what Ace told me when I said I was getting Hotbird number 8
Wow great!!! I think I only signed 10 of them. Very cool.
Tips:
For distortion sounds on clean amps turn the volume down and gain up
For overdrive on driven amps turn the gain down and volume up.
Use the mid edge control to get tube screamer type sounds.
Use the bass lift to add what is lost when you use it to drive already driven amps. (Distortions of drives can sometimes thin things a bit if you know what I mean)
Use the cream knob to compress the fuzz and the volume to bring it up when you use a lot of cream
Check out vintage and modern modes. Green clipping - vintage British sound - iron maiden, Judas Priest. Blue - my sound . Orange - more Usa style rectified.
So much variation and really great hand built quality. I think you will love it.
Cheers
Ace

Bass lift only works in vintage mode I think.

Hopefully this will help you to suggest things that you would like to hear
Cheers buddy

This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 18 2015, 11:37 PM

[Todd Simpson]

In the picture it looks like the mic is pointed slightly "off axis" instead of directly in to the center of the cone. Is it too bright when pointed directly at the center? I like the tone you have so far Mertay has give some great advice! Given your gear, it looks like you can use the head as clean, then channel 1 on you pedal as rythm and channel 2 as lead and bingo, you have all three channels

For folks who don't know much about the pedal, here is a playthrough vid. It's a boutique pedal with a huge range of sounds. In your setup, your sorta using the pedal as your preamp/od/dist chain as if it were a two channel head then mostly using your blackstar as power amp. seems to work well as it gives you a lot more tone control by using the pedal.

Todd

Thanks Mertay,
This was a starting point and also earlier in this thread you said you wanted to hear the capabilities of the Hotbird so I thought I'd give you the contrast of the cleanish amp and dirty pedal. The mid edge knob seems to work like the tone on a Big Muff, it gets thinner in the middle of the turn of the knob.
The mic is pointing at the centre of the speaker, it's a 4x8 cab
FYI this is what Ace told me when I said I was getting Hotbird number 8
Wow great!!! I think I only signed 10 of them. Very cool.
Tips:
For distortion sounds on clean amps turn the volume down and gain up
For overdrive on driven amps turn the gain down and volume up.
Use the mid edge control to get tube screamer type sounds.
Use the bass lift to add what is lost when you use it to drive already driven amps. (Distortions of drives can sometimes thin things a bit if you know what I mean)
Use the cream knob to compress the fuzz and the volume to bring it up when you use a lot of cream
Check out vintage and modern modes. Green clipping - vintage British sound - iron maiden, Judas Priest. Blue - my sound . Orange - more Usa style rectified.
So much variation and really great hand built quality. I think you will love it.
Cheers
Ace

Bass lift only works in vintage mode I think.

Hopefully this will help you to suggest things that you would like to hear
Cheers buddy

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Dec 18 2015, 11:50 PM

[Phil66]

Thanks Todd
Maybe I should show a picture of the mic from above too. It is pointing at the centre but it is angled. For some reason it is less bright when pointing to the centre and perpendicular.
As far as my knowledge allows, I don't think I can use the pedal/amp setup as a the channel because one of the channels on the pedal is analogue bfuzz and the other analogue overdrive. It's not like it can be used as clean/overdrive/distortion but I guess the channels is possible:)

Cheers Todd

Phil

This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 19 2015, 12:16 AM

[Mertay]

Thanks Mertay,
This was a starting point and also earlier in this thread you said you wanted to hear the capabilities of the Hotbird so I thought I'd give you the contrast of the cleanish amp and dirty pedal. The mid edge knob seems to work like the tone on a Big Muff, it gets thinner in the middle of the turn of the knob.
The mic is pointing at the centre of the speaker, it's a 4x8 cab
FYI this is what Ace told me when I said I was getting Hotbird number 8
Wow great!!! I think I only signed 10 of them. Very cool.
Tips:
For distortion sounds on clean amps turn the volume down and gain up
For overdrive on driven amps turn the gain down and volume up.
Use the mid edge control to get tube screamer type sounds.
Use the bass lift to add what is lost when you use it to drive already driven amps. (Distortions of drives can sometimes thin things a bit if you know what I mean)
Use the cream knob to compress the fuzz and the volume to bring it up when you use a lot of cream
Check out vintage and modern modes. Green clipping - vintage British sound - iron maiden, Judas Priest. Blue - my sound . Orange - more Usa style rectified.
So much variation and really great hand built quality. I think you will love it.
Cheers
Ace

Bass lift only works in vintage mode I think.

Hopefully this will help you to suggest things that you would like to hear
Cheers buddy

They are all good advice (try them!) and I think I know now what he ment by the mid knob. Also how is the fuzz?
I'd also like to hear that too

I'm sure in a short time your ears will start to memorise what each knob does to the sound, then you'll be able to adjust tones you hear in your head with is an amazing experience. Till then experiment with fun!

[Phil66]

Let me know what you want Mertay,
I am at your disposal
I personally think that the Hotbird is the answer to many guitarist's needs.
Cheers buddy

[Todd Simpson]

You'd need to use the overdrive on the pedal as RYTHM channel and the fuzz channel on the pedal as the LEAD channel and the amp itself as the CLEAN channel.

Thanks Todd
Maybe I should show a picture of the mic from above too. It is pointing at the centre but it is angled. For some reason it is less bright when pointing to the centre and perpendicular.
As far as my knowledge allows, I don't think I can use the pedal/amp setup as a the channel because one of the channels on the pedal is analogue bfuzz and the other analogue overdrive. It's not like it can be used as clean/overdrive/distortion but I guess the channels is possible:)

Cheers Todd

Phil

[Phil66]

Thanks Todd,
By the way, you can use the fuzz and overdrive together too bit much for me though.
Cheers

[Mertay]

Let me know what you want Mertay,
I am at your disposal

Ok, I've never boosted a fuzz with an overdrive and curious how it sounds if its too crazy, decrease the drive on the overdrive.

[Phil66]

Ok, I've never boosted a fuzz with an overdrive and curious how it sounds if its too crazy, decrease the drive on the overdrive.

No problem,
Cleanish amp or driven? What o clock settings for the Hotbird knobs would you like to start with?


This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 19 2015, 07:48 PM

[Mertay]

No problem,
Cleanish amp or driven? What o clock settings for the Hotbird knobs would you like to start with?

hehe lets keep the amp clean as for clock I'll leave it to you

[Phil66]

OK, here the amp and mic is the same as the last recording, the o clock settings are as pictured.
It goes amp ---> amp + EarBender --->amp + EarBender + Afterburner.

I personally think it needs a lot of experimenting to use both sides of the pedal at once, or maybe it's too much for my little amp. I'm really enjoying it though, I think it has transformed my amp's sound. My favourite side is the Afterburner

What I will do next, if it's ok with you, is go to the afterburner and select one of the knobs, not volume, set it to minimum, play a little then turn it up a bit, play a little then turn it up a bit. Some of them don't do what I expected and that isn't a complaint, the mid edge knob seems to go more trebly as you go anti clockwise. I can also demo the different clipping settings for you. Some of the differences are very subtle to my ears maybe you will hear more.

I've just asked Valerio what the switch underneath the "TOP" knob does. This was his answer.
"hello Phil,
the switch under the "top" knob change the way of filter the signal. It change the responce on the mid frequencies and the compression of the sound.

the switch under "mid edge" turns it on or off, so this is just a bypass of this filter. the "mid edge" knob work only on the afterburner, so not on earbender. The difference turning it on (the switch up) is very subtle because are just few db more on a frequency.
The knob changes this frequency, so when this control is activated you should hear a little differences rotating the knob, adding a little bit more high or bass frequencies. you can hear more differences with low gain setup.

have a nice evening"
Valerio
VDL Professional Analogics


Anyway here it is. If you have anything you would like to hear just ask. Just don't ask for some good playing



https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/test-19122015-amber

Thought you might like to see the inside of the "Hotbirb"[sic]



This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 19 2015, 10:06 PM