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Mertay
post Dec 22 2015, 12:47 PM
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I should point out you will have to adjust tone even if you change the cab. , there's no escaping that biggrin.gif

Every cab. even if the speaker cone size is the same will sound different, thats why although there are options on the market some use 4x12 and its not for the level. You did create some nice tones aside some adjustments needed, but if you feel a variety is what you need its really up to you.

When mic.ed, a cab. is sort of like eq'ing your amp. I have been fortunate to listen mixed setups a few times, an interesting one was a taurus amp (darius sponsors them, has a few vid.s on his channel) mixed with a 1x12 Fender (probably was a 112 hotrod model) cab. and wouldn't have guessed a metal amp would match so good with a vintage inspired cab...

So aside from impedance matching (cab. and amp valus much match) you can't go wrong as its a personal thing as what tone you want. Keep in mind the added bass with a 1x12 might feel its louder, I have a peavey combo that has a 12inch speaker on it and on half way it feels like its shaking the house (though not all cab.s are like this).

In short, your 4x8 cab.s seems nice for home use. If you were to swap one probably after a fast test you'll match your amps to cab.s to hear which one works best and keep them that way. If both amps with the 4x8 cab. sounds fine to you then keep them as is or sell one and get an amp switcher (so you won't move the mic. from one cab. to another).

Really up to you, best is not rushing into this and listen some cab.s at a store and meanwhile share some tones here so we'll work on any balacing needed smile.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Dec 22 2015, 12:50 PM


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Phil66
post Dec 22 2015, 01:55 PM
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Thanks Mertay,
The epic saga continues. Please tell me when you've had enough wink.gif
Cheers buddy. smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 24 2015, 06:19 PM
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Sure!! smile.gif You can get a closed top isolation 1x12 from randall that will let you record at loud volume without disturbing anyone. Also, you can get a nice Randall or Mesa 1zx12, or any 1x12 and mic the front. Of course, more volume tends to sound a bit better when micing a real amp. Thus the iso cab is always a good idea for home studios. they run about $399 new 200 used.

Either option will work smile.gif You could trade in your two mini cabs on a 1x12 and still come out ahead in terms of tone. A nice V30 speaker in a 1x12 would sound nice with your amp. smile.gif

Todd



QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 22 2015, 06:57 AM) *
Thank you gentlemen,

This is all very interesting stuff smile.gif I find this topic enthralling smile.gif

I think a 4x12 would be too big in my room (see below) and ££££s, and my OCD won't allow the non-square cab of a 2x12 rolleyes.gif but I have been thinking, as you're only mic'ing one cone, would a 1x12 be ok? I could swap one 4x8 for a 1x12 (I think they would be about the same size) and then mic that up.

What do you reckon?

Cheers

Phil




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Phil66
post Dec 24 2015, 08:14 PM
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WOW, thanks Todd, I didn't even know those isolation cabs existed. They are around £340 here. Given I can "safely" put out around 85db what tonal differences could I expect if I had a non isolated 12 compared to a more crank 12 in the ISO cab.
Also, how many dbs does the ISO cab "hide"?
Thanks Todd

UPDATE:
Have you used one yourself Todd?
I'm a bit concerned unsure.gif

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-many-gui...lation-cab.html


This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 24 2015, 08:43 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 24 2015, 09:50 PM
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I"ve tried them in guitar center and they do a really good job of reducing ambient volume. EVen if your amp is cranked, the sound in the room will be quiet. Like a muffled amp in another room. You do hear some low frequencies come out so some folks put the is cab in another room or as far away from the mix speakers as possible.

They do a great job of letting you crank your amp without waking the neighbors smile.gif

They are very handy for home recording. They are twice the cost of a single 1x12 though. You have to decide which works best for your situation smile.gif



QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 24 2015, 02:14 PM) *
WOW, thanks Todd, I didn't even know those isolation cabs existed. They are around £340 here. Given I can "safely" put out around 85db what tonal differences could I expect if I had a non isolated 12 compared to a more crank 12 in the ISO cab.
Also, how many dbs does the ISO cab "hide"?
Thanks Todd

UPDATE:
Have you used one yourself Todd?
I'm a bit concerned unsure.gif

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-many-gui...lation-cab.html


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Phil66
post Dec 24 2015, 10:33 PM
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Thanks Todd,

Eeeeek, I'm getting carried away again,

Thinking about one of THESE now, good price and with a bit of room juggling I can easily get it in and it would look the business smile.gif Maybe the angled one.

Cheers

This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 24 2015, 10:35 PM


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Mertay
post Dec 24 2015, 10:49 PM
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There are many who build a box theirselves to greatly reduce the cost, google diy iso cab. , even the pictures should give a good idea.

Good thing is you can use any cab. you want but downside is it will take more space and probably not as isolatioing as a company engineered product (should be still enough though)


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Phil66
post Dec 24 2015, 11:54 PM
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Thanks Mertay,
I don't have the tools or time to make my own, would that Marshall 4x12 sound good mic'ed up??
It does look nice too rolleyes.gif
Cheers


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Mertay
post Dec 25 2015, 12:41 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 24 2015, 10:54 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
I don't have the tools or time to make my own, would that Marshall 4x12 sound good mic'ed up??
It does look nice too rolleyes.gif
Cheers


Sorry I haven't demoed one, why not grab a guitar and go to your local music store? there's a good chance they'll have a ht1 there and as the amp isn't large you'll demo them easy.

The mg412 by the way seems like it isn't too expensive compared to the fender cab. I gave example, but as said its so much about personal taste (who knows might sound great or terrible with a blackstar amp...) . Incase you'll find one to listen, it looks like this; http://mydukkan.com/urunler_detay.asp?id=28268&gid=690

By the way, you do have amplitube and the cab.s in gt001. Its not the best way for sure but if you can't go to a shop for any reason just plug your guitar and demo those cab.s by selecting an sm57 as mic. . Atleast it might give some idea on brand characteristics among cab.s, just make sure you always use the same amp.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Dec 25 2015, 12:42 AM


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Phil66
post Dec 25 2015, 09:31 AM
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Thanks Mertay,
I think it was the Christmas spirit (Jack Daniels smile.gif ) making me want that 4x12 laugh.gif
I'm going to look into a 1x12 in the new year, probably Marshall or Blackstar. Because of work and other commitments I struggle to get to guitar shops other than my friend's which is only 5 minute from work so a lunch break visit is good. Problem is, he is very small and only has a few combos so I have to take the mail order or eBay route.
Cheers


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Mertay
post Dec 25 2015, 11:37 AM
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biggrin.gif

I also have a freind who has a shop too small, I have the same problem smile.gif

Going for a different brand since you already have a blackstar might be more beneficial to have variety, from my limited knowledge of the bands you like to listen and tones you enjoy I'd say go with brands that have a traditional background as mentioned brands like marshall, fender etc. does feel more suitable for you.

But yeah no need to rush, by the way I'm still waiting that pedals tone knob example settings (all left-middle-all right) so we can find a set and forget setting smile.gif sure guitar homework comes first, but when you have the time I'd like to hear the most out of the blackstar cab. you have smile.gif


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Phil66
post Dec 25 2015, 01:19 PM
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Thanks Mertay,
I'll get the tone thing done very soon, maybe tonight.
I'm thinking of going for Marshall because the people that started Blackstar are ex Marshall designers so the bloodline will be their if you know what I mean.
Cheers buddy and Merry Christmas


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Mertay
post Dec 25 2015, 03:34 PM
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Merry Christmas! smile.gif



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Phil66
post Dec 25 2015, 08:24 PM
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OK,
Afterburner. Mid edge off, green clipping stage, modern setting volume 10'o'clock, Gain 12'o'clock,

Blackstar: Clean channel, reverb 11'o'clock, ISF (eq) 12'o'clock, volume full, gain 12'o'clock

Guitar PRS ACE signature, bridge pickup, vol full, tone full.

Tone control on Afterburner going from full anti clockwise>9'o'clock>12'o'clock>3'o'clock>full clockwise.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/tone-test-1



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Mertay
post Dec 25 2015, 09:45 PM
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Nice!

I'd say the balance starts at 9 o'clock (for big punchy powerchord stuff, the more closer to 12 its getting to ac/dc type driven chord sounds) and your lead tones start around 11 till max 2 o'clock. After 2 it immediatly starts to sound thin.

If you ever watched overdrive pedal demos maybe you've noticed the tone knobs on most pedals are usually around 2 o'clock, with current amp settings this is max for you. I'd say your safe zone is between 12-1 o'clock.

The isf knob depending on position as far as I know can add or take highs, either full left or right my guess is to compansate the bright/darkness added from isf you'll change only 1 clock turn from pedal tone knob.

So given these setting ideas, why not make a solo sound you personally enjoy? just keep in mind the tone settings and we'll see if there's any other setting we have to be careful about.

PS; now we can hear how full your cab. can sound, not bad at all! smile.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Dec 25 2015, 09:48 PM


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Phil66
post Dec 25 2015, 10:25 PM
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Thanks Mertay,

The amp definitely sounds better with the volume knob full and controlling the volume with the pedal.

Here is a full explanation of ISF



Cheers


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Mertay
post Dec 25 2015, 10:42 PM
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So from the video, if your pedals tone knob is set at 1 o'clock when isf is in the middle; when the isf is set american voiced then turn the pedals tone knob to around 12, if british then around 2.

Now here's info on how pedals volume (output knobs) controls the sound of an amp;

The gain knob on any amp is actually sort of and input level on the amp, when increased this volume is increased inside the amp so the input signal is stronger and the amp distorts more. Thats why we can hear some noise on amp distortion settings, cause the input then gets very high.

Now a pedals output can also (technically) do this, if we increase the output of the pedal then the input increases too at the amp and the amp starts to distort. It not as effective as increasing the gain on the amp but sure can make a noticable difference.

Now, since its not as effective thats why many prefers to use the drive channel of the amp but set the gain really low. When the pedal is activated and the pedals output volume is hot this alone will distort the amp more+we also have the overdrive sound from the pedal too so can get a very strong distortion sound. Basically then the pedals acts like a channel footswitch of the amp but we get more of the pedals tone.

if you like the pedals output cranked on clean channel, definitly try lowering it but also instead of clean use the drive channel with the amp with the drive knob (of amp) set very low. This is very common among guitarists, many blues or even rock guys like john petrucci never use the clean channel although we can hear very clean sounds from them wink.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Dec 25 2015, 10:45 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 25 2015, 11:06 PM
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That would work! smile.gif Any 4x12 will do or any 2x12 or 1x12 to be honest smile.gif The 1x12 is the most affordable. The iso cab is nice, but costly for a 1x12 enclosure smile.gif


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 24 2015, 04:33 PM) *
Thanks Todd,

Eeeeek, I'm getting carried away again,

Thinking about one of THESE now, good price and with a bit of room juggling I can easily get it in and it would look the business smile.gif Maybe the angled one.

Cheers


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Phil66
post Dec 26 2015, 12:20 AM
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Thanks folks,
Need to start looking at the Vox next, also thinking of getting a Laney like THIS Can be set to less than 1 watt smile.gif
First though is a 1x12 wink.gif
Cheers guys
Phil

This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 26 2015, 09:58 AM


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Mertay
post Dec 26 2015, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 25 2015, 11:20 PM) *
Thanks folks,
Need to start looking at the Vox next, also thinking of getting a Laney like THIS Can be set to less than 1 watt smile.gif


Cool, this time could you set the tone control to 1 o'clock and rest of the pedal adjusted same as before? amp settings flat and just 1 recording enough. I'd like to nail a default tone knob setting area so you won't have to adjust much when swapping amps wink.gif

Also, if you record over a backing track for a lesson these days try with the blackstar+pedal with the adjustments we made. I'd like to listen an example on how it sounds with a backing track, give quick tips if needed for the gitar to cut through the mix.

As for the laney rolleyes.gif lets not rush as we've just started figuring out potential of current amps smile.gif


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