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Mertay
post Dec 3 2015, 10:52 PM
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Yeah thats normal actually but its sort of the thing thats liked about mic.s as they color the sound. You'll get used to it and specially when playing over back tracks enjoy it in time.

Best is to adjust placement wearing headphones so you won't have to keep recording each time while trying to nail the mic. placement.

Until you get used to mic.ing, it might be better not using the pedal for now cause it can alter the tone a lot as I noticed and that might complicate things for you at this point.

Lets keep the amps eq flat for now and go between clean and overdrive only. After we get a relatively balanced tone then we'll kick in the pedal which I'm sure will be fun cause I'm curious about it smile.gif

Dynamic mic.s on acoustics is actually harder to nail. I think I'm hearing some computer fan noise on that recording you might want to place the mic. somewhere more away from the computer.

Try moving it closer to the guitar, its usually adviced to point to mic. at the 12. fret of a guitar but this is just a staring point. Every mic., guitar needs some experimentation on mic. placement. I guess we can get to that in detail after we feel comfortable with the amp lets go 1 step at a time smile.gif


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Phil66
post Dec 3 2015, 11:38 PM
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Thanks Mertay,
I hope this is giving you some valuable experience for when you get some other numpty asking loads of questions smile.gif
One of my problems is I am into real HiFi and have Meridian equipment so I don't like it when something isn't sounding like the source mad.gif
Cheers buddy
Phil

This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 4 2015, 12:14 PM


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Mertay
post Dec 4 2015, 12:22 AM
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Nah as long as we keep progressing like this I'm sure you'll be giving the advices around here soon and I'll enjoy reading smile.gif

By the way those speakers look sick! I understand what you mean, I've been in some hi-fi shops and studios that had amazing speakers/monitors and yeah there is no turning back from that kind of experience...

Feeling a bit irritated is good, that will drive you to get the tones you hear from the albums you liked all your life smile.gif funny after a while one memorises the mic.s character and gets used to switching between sources.

There are a lot of guys out there that have their amps mic.ed at home enjoying both the sound they like in the room and the other sound in their recordings. Once you setup the system, I bet you're going to enjoy the more album-like tones you2ll get when recording over backing tracks wink.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 4 2015, 12:31 AM
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Some great advice smile.gif You are on your way to being a recordist! I read through the thread and I don't yet get if you have an audio interface or are you going direct in to your internal computer sound card?

As for "routing" the good news is that it's easy! smile.gif If you have a FOUR CHANNEL interface, you can get a splitter for your guitar so it would go

GUITAR/SPLITTER/ then you have two cables out. One goes to guitar amp, one goes directly in to the interface. Now you have 3 channels left on your interface to put up to 3 microphones. Honestly though, 2 inputs is probably enough smile.gif Especially if your using one microphone.

Being able to mix the miced amp with a dry signal that you put amplitude or something on, can yield really good results.

As for recording a cab. WHAT MERTAY SAID! smile.gif P.S. What type of mic are you using? Please tell me it's a SHURE SM57



QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 3 2015, 06:38 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
I hope this is giving you some valuable experience foot when you get some other numpty asking loads of questions smile.gif
One of my problems is I am into real HiFi and have Meridian equipment so I don't like it when something isn't sounding like the source mad.gif
Cheers buddy
Phil


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Phil66
post Dec 4 2015, 08:35 AM
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Thanks Todd and Mertay,

Todd: Using my GT-001 as my interface not going into computer soundcard. Mic is Shure SM-57

Mertay: We need to start again rolleyes.gif I woke at 3am with this on my mind, I said about the sound from monitors having an almost echo sound to it, well at 3am I woke up and my words word "Phil you xxxxxxx dingbat, you had a patch running in the GT-001" I went and checked and yes, there it was, with reverb, delay, chorus, amp sim and cab sim!!!!!!!!!!!! No wonder it sounded so different laugh.gif

I have a patch called "NO FX" which has everything switched off, I will go through that tonight smile.gif

Another thing, it's a 4x8 cab not 4x10, I keep saying 4x10 rolleyes.gif

Sorry folks

Mertay, I actually swapped my Meridian CD player and dual monoblock amp along with some Mission speakers for the F80, it sounds incredible. I've only ever bought pre-owned Meridian equipment, it's far too expensive to buy new wink.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP3WYE1KdZA


This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 4 2015, 12:22 PM


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Mertay
post Dec 4 2015, 04:44 PM
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laugh.gif

No problem, we were going to start from scratch anyway. As said, use headphones when searching the right spot for the mic. and no pedal+amp eq flat (test with clean and overdrive).

Whatever placement sounds most balanced to you is what what we're looking for but sure I'd also like to listen smile.gif That patch might have efected the input signal strenght on Reaper, maybe now it will get stronger.

I used to check out a Turkish hi-fi forum and sometimes helped the members with small advices. Its been 2-3 year maybe since I haven't been active there but I remember they started to buy really afforable/low power netbook computers and removed the internal fans for most quiet operation smile.gif

I guess unless something pushing the extreme, computer has become an unseparable part in the hi-fi would. This ofcoure goes for cd type digital players as nothing can replace a good amp and speaker.


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Phil66
post Dec 4 2015, 08:45 PM
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Thanks Mertay,
I'm actually enjoying this recording stuff, very interesting wink.gif

When I took the mic stand out of the box, the bottom screw clamp was broken, nothing major, just the plastic head that you turn it with had nearly half missing. I emailed the shop and told them, said it's not an issue as I won't be using that screw once it is set up but thought they should know for future dispatches. They immediately put a replacement whole stand on delivery and told me to keep the original smile.gif

The Meridian CD player I had was a little different to most. When you ejected the CD, you didn't just see a flimsy drawer come out, it was actually the whole internals, you could see the laser. I think this must have been to prevent any alignment issues and to minimise error correction but I don't really know how they work so I might be totally wrong smile.gif



Sounds coming soon smile.gif

This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 4 2015, 09:06 PM


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“Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in installments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.”
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Mertay
post Dec 4 2015, 10:10 PM
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smile.gif

Its so important to work with decent shops, probably everyone I know bumped into faulty units right out of the box and the better stores/companys handle situations best.

I'm glad you're enjoying the process, key to getting into and personalizing a tone has a specialy fullfilment to it for the musician. Personally I always feel like I'm able to give more to the audience if I'm confident with my tone.

Keep in mind while adjusting the stand always release and tighten full cause in time they tend to get lose and won't stay in position cause of the weight.

I had this teacher in college who was one of those guys that had perfect pitch, I was told by someone else he was at the limits of such ability. We had a conversation once on burning cd's (it was year 2002 I think) as I felt something was happening with tone although it was digital (I wasn't into sound tech back then, pure classical music).

He told me he noticed changes on all different blank cd brands, we played some on a hi-fi (nothing high-end but was the schools better system) and something definitly was going on. Later on when studying soundtech I learn a bit on digital distortion etc. and then it started to make sense to me.

I bet even musicians aren't aware of such things. But though its not obvious, its always the little things that matter when enjoying music specially if its not live. At home since harddisk's are so huge these days, I copyed most of my cd's on harddisk. Its a shame I'm not doing things old fashion as it was nicer to open cd's, placing them ritual thing but confort won over me in time smile.gif


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Phil66
post Dec 4 2015, 10:12 PM
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Ok, this is the closest I can get it to sounding like my actual amp without spending hours making micro adjustments smile.gif

It was closest to the amp/cab tone when I put it half way between centre and edge. In the middle it seemed a little bit harsh. Mic was about 1" from grill. Signal was hitting around -30bd on the peak meter so that patch must have boosted it a little bit. The actual decibels coming from the cab at the mic location is around 85 with a peak of 90, my acoustic at the soundhole is around 90db with a good hard strum.

I need to get some playing practise done now so I'll stop experimenting for a day. Please keep in mid that it is impossible to get Reaper to clip with this GT001, some sort of internal auto level thing I guess. This is why I'm thinking of a new interface, one with input level knobs.

Thank you everyone for your help smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/bridge-cleanish-ii

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/neck-cleanish-ii

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/bridge-dirty-ii

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/neck-dirty-ii

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/bridge-v-dirty

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/neck-v-dirty

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/acoustic-12th-fret


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Mertay
post Dec 4 2015, 11:27 PM
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Aside from the recording level being low, I liked what I'm hearing smile.gif the balance seems good on solo, keep in mind you can move the mic. closer to the center if it can't cut-through a backing track when further testing. To fine tune the mic. placement you can also give an angle like this as it can also make a difference;



You might have noticed the tone really responds to your picking strengh as you hit the string harder, a lot more detail can be expressed with a mic.ed cab. (the tone can be describes as having depth and breathing) and still today the computer/processor lacks in that department.

On low recording levels noise and a bit boxy-ish sound can be normal so don't worry about that. Is the reverb closed? I'm not sure as I noticed a slight echo time to time but it can be caused by a number of things.

85-90db in the room are good levels for home recording but -30db on Reaper is to be honest a problem. I wouldn't care much if it was around maybe a healthy -6 or something around there but even though we can increase any sound level in the DAW we'll get noisey results. But this doesn't mean we'll stop at this point smile.gif we can start fine tuning your pedal anytime you're ready smile.gif

I can't say much about the gt001's preamp cause both the webpage and manual is a bit criptic about it, not giving any spec.s I can relate to. I could give advice on a super affordable preamp like a presonus tubepre v2 if you don't want a new soundcard but I don't know how well it can work with the GT001 (it might cause too much noise as 2 preamps will work together).



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Phil66
post Dec 5 2015, 10:47 AM
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Thanks Mertay

I should have said I used a different guitar, it was a Strat with split coils. I used single for the clans and humbuckers for the dirty.

What do you think of the acoustic?

Reverb was on about 30%

Is it worth getting a new soundcard and a head with fx loop like the Blackstar 5w so I can put the GT-001 in the loop for modulation? (Expensive route)

I can't really turn the volume up any louder unless the house is empty wink.gif would a more sensitive mic be an option?

Maybe get rid of GT-001 and use plugins for modulation effects with a decent interface. The preamp gain in the GT-001 goes to +20 dB.

I feel we have got somewhere really quickly and am extremely grateful to you. Thank you.

Cheers

This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 5 2015, 10:49 AM


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Mertay
post Dec 5 2015, 12:05 PM
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Glad you're liking whats going on as you're using your limited time with good effort smile.gif

The sm57 is a mic. that does need good gain but a more sensitive mic. might pickup too much room/computer noise so I think you're good with the sm57 right now, its a proven mic. so we're cool.

The only problem I see now is input gain. Most cost effective solution would be the presonus preamp I mentioned, could you email boss service if its ok to use an external preamp with the gt001? (ask if it would cause too much noise comapred to using a typical soundcard) If no then I'm afraid we will need a dedicated soundcard.

Here is our current situation;

if we can do (depending on the boss service answer) mic. to preamp to gt001 as soundcard then we're good. We'll get good input level so no noise issues.

But if we can't use something like a presonus preamp this won't work; mic. to gt001 as fx unit to (new) soundcard...reason is since the input gain on gt001 is low, we'll only increase the noisey sound from the gt001.

Best for now is writing and waiting an answer from the service, depending on the answer then we'll figure out the best solution.


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Phil66
post Dec 5 2015, 06:12 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 3 2015, 09:38 AM) *
Ha ha ha! Read a part of this topicand I see Phill..you're squeezing MEraty to the limits of his patience (huge pateince) biggrin.gif Well done Mertay BTW smile.gif

No-you do not need 2 interfaces=soundcards because for the purpose you mention, each of prviously mentioned Focurite or Presonus card will support the ability to record 2 sources (voc + instrument) at two independent tracks. Buying externam interface is always a good deal even if you would be using it only as a preamp for micorphone. It takes care of few things that usually would case o need to purchase a few separate devices.

These days many Guitar FX devices have buil-in usb connection which actually makes them visible as an audio interace for your computer. Yet...this only means you won't have to degarde your singal quality byt connection guitar fx through analog out to PC built-in soundcard (realtek driver or similar).

Basicly by audio interface we understand a device that will

1. Process analog audio inputs into digital information
2. Will take huge part of CPU usage for audio processing into it's own CPU, making your recording gear more efficient
3. Will usually give you ability to power up condenser microphones - 48 phantom power
4. Will give you ability to play with lower latency
5. Will give you much betweer signal to noise relation than typical PC built-in card
6. Will give you muhc higer resolution (quality) of recorded tracks (24 bit /98 kHz for example insteadof 16bit/44.1 kHz)

So no matter if Your GT is able to work as an interface, it will not solve a lot of situations above. If you plan to spend some time on recordings in the future...even if just for fun, you should definitely buy an interface


Thanks Darius

Sorry I missed this post of yours unsure.gif

I don't mind getting rid of the GT-001 BUT I do like the idea of hardware effects. I'm starting to understand more about why modulation shouldn't really go at the front of an amp. It's tricky with limited budgets to go all hardware. Also when doing a REC take having only two amps will prevent me from getting a sound match close to the instructor which is where plugins and even the GT-001 amp SIMD come into play.
It's such a big subject with so many variables I just want a simple set up for now. One that allows me to get close to an instructor tone for REC takes (software plugins, Amplitude etc) and a simple to use mic setup for my own projects for collabs, creativity workshops etc. It is doing these projects where I will try to improve my recording skills.

To anyone else Reading this topic, particularly Todd and Mertay, would Eleven Rack be an option? What is it's mic preamp likje?

Thanks

QUOTE (Mertay @ Dec 5 2015, 11:05 AM) *
Glad you're liking whats going on as you're using your limited time with good effort smile.gif

The sm57 is a mic. that does need good gain but a more sensitive mic. might pickup too much room/computer noise so I think you're good with the sm57 right now, its a proven mic. so we're cool.

The only problem I see now is input gain. Most cost effective solution would be the presonus preamp I mentioned, could you email boss service if its ok to use an external preamp with the gt001? (ask if it would cause too much noise comapred to using a typical soundcard) If no then I'm afraid we will need a dedicated soundcard.

Here is our current situation;

if we can do (depending on the boss service answer) mic. to preamp to gt001 as soundcard then we're good. We'll get good input level so no noise issues.

But if we can't use something like a presonus preamp this won't work; mic. to gt001 as fx unit to (new) soundcard...reason is since the input gain on gt001 is low, we'll only increase the noisey sound from the gt001.

Best for now is writing and waiting an answer from the service, depending on the answer then we'll figure out the best solution.


Thanks Mertay,

Email sent, should get reply by Tuesday smile.gif

Did the acoustic sound any better?

Cheers


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Mertay
post Dec 5 2015, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 5 2015, 05:12 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,

Email sent, should get reply by Tuesday smile.gif

Did the acoustic sound any better?

Cheers


Hey Phil, sorry I as I was plaining to keep writing but I got a call and had to catch a bus. Atleast wanted to write the send e-mail part to save some time for you.

Continuing;

Option 2 is buying a new soundcard and hooking the mic. directly to it but then the gt001 can't be used. You can use plug-ins though from reaper which shouldn't need much cpu power.

option 3 is as you mentioned, to be able to use the gt001 with new soundcard we need an amp with fx loop but I seriously don't want you pushing any budget for that...I mean since we're mic.ing now the amp can be any model of blackstar or even a different amp (since we're not using cab. outs anymore), since an amp is the very core of tone I wouldn't want you to buy one thats needed but buy one that you dream of specially when the time is right...

Another reason I'm not really into option 3 is I don't want you dealing with amp eq. To fit a sound for every backing (be it for collab.s or lessons) so much can be done with changing the mic. placement I'd really want you to get familiar with that rather than (atleast for now) tweaking eq's.

I did listen to the acoustic, honestly if we didn't have preamp problems (noise) I don't think it can get much better than that by using an sm57 smile.gif once we solve this preamp issue I'd like you to record again as I think very minor mic. movement would make it sound album-ready perfect smile.gif it might sound raw to you but after making it stereo, add some fx I'm sure you'll like it even more smile.gif

EDIT; Forgot to mention, if you get an affordable presonus type preamp but later buy a soundcard, then the presonus won't be a must. It will be a better preamp than the soundcards we mentioned but not sure how needed it will be+not all soundcard come with non-preamp input options which are usually at the back panel (the roland quadcaputer I mention for example doesn't have that option). Still won't be a problem, there are many options of soundcards out there.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Dec 5 2015, 07:20 PM


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Phil66
post Dec 5 2015, 08:45 PM
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Thanks Mertay,
I'll put this on hold until we hear from Boss.

Cheers

Phil


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Mertay
post Dec 5 2015, 09:20 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 5 2015, 07:45 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
I'll put this on hold until we hear from Boss.

Cheers

Phil


Cool, I thought of asking this for you in some audio engineering forums for a quicker reply but I'm pretty sure we won't get a reply we can trust upon. Atleast hopefully their support will contact their engineers or already been asked this so we'll know what to do next.


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Phil66
post Dec 5 2015, 11:48 PM
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Thanks Mertay,
Is really nice that you thought about my limited time but you have limited time too and I really appreciate you giving your time up to help.
I'm loving this recording malarkey


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Darius Wave
post Dec 7 2015, 08:24 AM
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You don't have to get rid of GT100 smile.gif You can still use it for your favorite tones and plug it the way you're used to or just through analog line out to your new interface. Both - Boss and interfece won't interfere with each other. The difference is (another plus for Mertay) you will be able to connect any type of microphone to the interface with much better preamp then the options you have at the moment. Affordable interfaces like presonus or focusrite have quite descent preamps - it's crutial to get your mic signal amplified with less possible noise level.

As for REC tones....

Don't get into a trap of trying to perfectly clone the tone for each lesson...not by using 100000000 preset - each for particular lesson. Players do not do that in real life. We choose and amp or 2and stick to it. We try to get best clean, crunch and high gain tones from a single amp. It's almost like a marriage. We choose and amp for a life and we get familiar with it's good and bad sides. We "learn each other" to so we are able to deliver the type of tone we need for particular purpose, trying to get it with our "one and only amp". Of course sometimes (for recording CD/album) we borrow amps to get perfect tone for this particular studio suituation, but most of the time it's like above.

Try to split your thinking into those 3 sections
1. How to get best clean tone from the amp I own
2. ....................crunch.............................
3. ....................high gain..........................

You should be able to learn how to tweak your gain and eq knobs to match the tone to the lesson. That;s the whole trick about playing - you have to be "the preset" smile.gif The players generates the tone. Going through tones of simulation does not work in real life. For example. Going to play a gig with quite huge P.A power on open air. When sound engeer will tweak the tone of your miced amp to match it to other instruments, you can't simply switch to a totally different tone (frequency-wise) for another song you'll play). You'll be the one who does not fit to the mix then and sound guy would probably have a lot of different sound issues to fix at the moment, then focusing on you to adjust the tone for each single song smile.gif


So.. I think what should be the target for everyplayer is to find an amp you feel works best for what you play most often, and stick to it. Learn how to make it sound good for different type of tones, learn how to play to make fit something. That's how things work in real life.

The exceptions is Edge from U2. He basiclt uses original, different tone for every song - that's he's characteristic behavior but...it refers to fx mostly. He's root tone stay's quite the same (again - frequency wise)


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Mertay
post Dec 7 2015, 10:00 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 7 2015, 07:24 AM) *
...


Hey Darius, first of all glad marrige is working for you as that marriage example was epic biggrin.gif

Did you ever insert a preamp to a processors input? seems the boss gt001 has only enough input power for direct in and fx loop of an amp so incase you missed we're having noise issue's cause of low level (when using the Phil's amp to sm57 to gt001).

I only chained 2 preamps once in a studio where this stubborn girl insisted she wanted to use an sm57 on some very whispery vocals smile.gif The preamps were trash also so we got a lot of noise, I'm sure it won't be that bad if phil decides to use a preamp on the gt001 (waiting for boss support answer) but I can't be sure how good.

Nothing is decided yet but to use the least amounth of cpu and cost effective this is what I could come up with. Still phil will be the one to decide what kind of recording chain he'll be using but nice that you further mentioned what and how he can work if he gets a soundcard smile.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Dec 7 2015, 01:26 PM


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Phil66
post Dec 7 2015, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 7 2015, 07:24 AM) *
You don't have to get rid of GT100 smile.gif You can still use it for your favorite tones and plug it the way you're used to or just through analog line out to your new interface. Both - Boss and interfece won't interfere with each other.

As for REC tones....

Don't get into a trap of trying to perfectly clone the tone for each lesson...not by using 100000000 preset - each for particular lesson. Players do not do that in real life. We choose and amp or 2and stick to it. We try to get best clean, crunch and high gain tones from a single amp. It's almost like a marriage. We choose and amp for a life and we get familiar with it's good and bad sides. We "learn each other" to so we are able to deliver the type of tone we need for particular purpose, trying to get it with our "one and only amp". Of course sometimes (for recording CD/album) we borrow amps to get perfect tone for this particular studio suituation, but most of the time it's like above.




So.. I think what should be the target for everyplayer is to find an amp you feel works best for what you play most often, and stick to it. Learn how to make it sound good for different type of tones, learn how to play to make fit something. That's how things work in real life.


Thanks Darius,

I'm pleased I can keep my GT-001, when recording amp with mic would new interface or preamp go before or after gt-001?

Regarding REC, it's going to be hard to get close to all the different amps you instructors have especially as my Blackstar only has one eq knob which is called ISF "Infinite Shape Feature" but hopefully I can tweak with GT001 or plugins. It's nice to get a similar tone. I guess this is the area most students don't think about when buying equipment.

Cheers


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