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ibanezkiller
post Jul 27 2007, 04:02 PM
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I dont care for this style of music(hip-hop) included and the whole rapper poser scene with that flat brim hats... any one else have an opinion? (FOR or against welcome!)


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Pantalaimon
post Jul 27 2007, 04:24 PM
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The style of music you're probably referring to is what I call the "Club Hip-hop/rap" scene. This style includes artists like Young Joc, Shop Boys, T.Payne, etc. These people rap about their nice cars and their women and such and such on top of an almost completely studio-produced backing track (few of the sounds were made by real instrumentalists....rather it was made by a synth and a mixing program - drums are usually drum machine).

I agree with you.....this style of music is no good. I think it's perfectly good for clubs, where people are dancing and such, however it is not really the kind of thing that should be played on the radio three times an hour mad.gif

Now there are many good rap/hip-hop artists out there. I'm a big fan of Tech-N9ne...a rapper from Kansas City, Missouri. He has excellent rhyme skills and can flow like none other. Plus - his backing tracks are usually pretty unique. I also like a band called "Gym Class Heroes" - they're an organic hip-hop band combining rap and indie

just to clarify - organic hip hop is a genre of music characterized by rapping to music produced by a band of instrumentalists - basically, if there's a band and the singer is a rapper it can be considered organic hip hop - another example of organic hip hop would be Linkin Park - although they could also be called "rap metal".

I like organic hip hop and I appreciate rappers with good writing skills (ie - Tech N9ne, Eminem, Zro, etc.)


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AliMo
post Jul 27 2007, 04:31 PM
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Well to be honest, I used to like rap when I was younger, that would be all I listen to, mostly just because I live in New York and that is all people listen to around here. But then I started listening to classic rock mostly because of my dad and it got me thinking, what is rap?? It's some guy who goes out, buys a backing "beat" from someone else who made it (most likely with a computer so even that guy doesn't have any musical talent) and then they talk over it, while rhyming Most of the time its just talking about killing people, something violent, or just something that either doesn't relate to me (and most people that listen to it for that matter ) or something I don't care to hear. On the other hand, almost all other types of music (besides like pop singers) create their own music (so even if you don't like it, you can respect their talent) write it, sing it. So I guess, no I don't like rap, and I don't mean to stereotype it, maybe some rappers do make their own beats, maybe they do rap about things that are important or legal, but I haven't heard it.

Haha sorry for such a long answer to an A or B question. Just wanted to explain myself instead of saying I hate it.


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Pantalaimon
post Jul 27 2007, 04:46 PM
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QUOTE (AliMo @ Jul 27 2007, 10:31 AM) *
Well to be honest, I used to like rap when I was younger, that would be all I listen to, mostly just because I live in New York and that is all people listen to around here. But then I started listening to classic rock mostly because of my dad and it got me thinking, what is rap?? It's some guy who goes out, buys a backing "beat" from someone else who made it (most likely with a computer so even that guy doesn't have any musical talent) and then they talk over it, while rhyming Most of the time its just talking about killing people, something violent, or just something that either doesn't relate to me (and most people that listen to it for that matter ) or something I don't care to hear. On the other hand, almost all other types of music (besides like pop singers) create their own music (so even if you don't like it, you can respect their talent) write it, sing it. So I guess, no I don't like rap, and I don't mean to stereotype it, maybe some rappers do make their own beats, maybe they do rap about things that are important or legal, but I haven't heard it.

Haha sorry for such a long answer to an A or B question. Just wanted to explain myself instead of saying I hate it.


Yes...you have a point here at one point - for the average middle-class kid (especiall the average middle-age white kid) it's a bit hard to relate to the things that rappers write about. However - I recommend seeing a couple films on the subject -
8 Mile: This film will at least help you to see where Eminem and others like him are coming from with their lyrics.
Hustle and Flow: This film actually gave me a bit more respect for the "club hip-hop" genre. They make all the backing tracks with a keypad and they spend time lookin for hooks. It's rather inspirational though.

As far as the other parts of your answer - yes you are stereotyping, and you should give it a chance again - there are some really talented people out there. I implore you to check out Tech N9ne - he's one of the best rappers I've ever heard. Also - old skool Outcast is really great.


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AliMo
post Jul 27 2007, 05:02 PM
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Ya I have seen 8 mile, a few times actually, I liked the movie. And I am a fan of Eminem.

And I haven't even heard of Tech N9ne, maybe I'll check him out sometime.


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Pavel
post Jul 27 2007, 06:10 PM
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QUOTE (ibanezkiller @ Jul 27 2007, 05:02 PM) *
I dont care for this style of music(hip-hop) included and the whole rapper poser scene with that flat brim hats


Agreed! And i just don't think RAP has anything to do with music. It's totally overrated "thing" and, you sure noticed, it's the most commercialized "thing" (i'm not gonna call it music style because it's not) in the music industry!!


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The Uncreator
post Jul 27 2007, 06:19 PM
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I dont like rap either, But none of you Should say its not music just because you dont like it and its commercialized.
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JVM
post Jul 27 2007, 06:40 PM
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QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Jul 27 2007, 11:19 AM) *
I dont like rap either, But none of you Should say its not music just because you dont like it and its commercialized.


Gotta agree with uncreator here. Some of the greatest artists have been hip hop/rap guys. Some of my favorites are Tupac, Snoop, Eminem, Jay-Z, Wu-Tang, Busta Rhymes, and Aesop Rock. I don't know as much about it or as many good artists as I'd like, but I like these guys.

I think most people don't like it because they don't give it a chance. I didn't like Tupac at first, but once I started really listening to him, I realized he's amazing. Also, I think today the majority of music on the radio, rap or not, is terrible, so if you don't give rap a chance and pursue it yourself all you're going to hear is the bad stuff. There's a lot more rock music that has been produced over the years I think, so there's bound to be more "good" rock than "good" rap, just because rock has had a lot more time. So there's less good rap to be found than good rock, I THINK, but it's still worth going after.


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Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 27 2007, 06:45 PM
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My rule is that at least the top 1% of every genre, even ones that you hate is worth listening to - biggest problem is identifying that 1% in a genrte you don't know ...


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Jeff
post Jul 27 2007, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE (ibanezkiller @ Jul 27 2007, 10:02 AM) *
I dont care for this style of music(hip-hop) included and the whole rapper poser scene with that flat brim hats... any one else have an opinion? (FOR or against welcome!)


I don't really like it either. But, I do like to walk around holding my package! laugh.gif
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Robin
post Jul 27 2007, 07:03 PM
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I dont know much about these genres, all I know is that I TRULY HATE the S**T that is on the TV all the time. Everyone makes the same lyrics and videos becuase its "in".

On the other hand, I really like Run DMC. Rap/hip hop from the 80's, thats pretty much the only rap/hip hop group I know about. I think rokchik mentioned some old school stuff that wasnt bad either! smile.gif

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kgTrKDsfZEk - Real good stuff!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vCSqt4LqEAE&...ted&search= - I used to be poor, now I'm a famous rapper and I got all the money and chicks in the world, and I'm gonna kill yo mama!

That last link is just some depressive piece of CRAP! And everyone does the same redicilous moves all the freakin time.

This post has been edited by Robin: Jul 27 2007, 07:05 PM


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Robin
post Jul 27 2007, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Jul 27 2007, 05:40 PM) *
I think most people don't like it because they don't give it a chance.

Indeed! I used to hate all bands with growlin vocals, even Opeth. I said "its just noise and they have no talent and they dont have any rythm" etc.
But now I love it.

I usually try to not talk crap about stuff I havent listened to. I loved In Flames for a couple of months, but now I hate it more than anything, and all the bands that copies them. Same with techno, skatepunk and also rap. I used to listen a little bit to rap in my skateboard times, but that was just the stuff that was on Tony Hawks Pro Skater biggrin.gif

But when it comes to this music that just copies other popular artists and get other proffesional(hmm.. ? biggrin.gif)
musicians to make everything for them in the studio, I think its pretty safe to say that it sucks! Look at Britney Spears for instance. She is no rapper, but its the same thing. On her fourth album, she made her FIRST song. I saw that song on TV, and it said something like "Written by: Spears, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx".
It was literally atleast 5 other names there. So yes, Britney Spears and all other artists that does the same SUCKS!

But of course, as many other said, there are alot of good artists too!


Just got to add: Its the same with Blackmetal. "Everyone" think it sucks, even though they have maybe only heard one Dimmu Borgir song, LOL biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Robin: Jul 27 2007, 07:25 PM


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Pantalaimon
post Jul 27 2007, 07:40 PM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Jul 27 2007, 12:40 PM) *
Gotta agree with uncreator here. Some of the greatest artists have been hip hop/rap guys. Some of my favorites are Tupac, Snoop, Eminem, Jay-Z, Wu-Tang, Busta Rhymes, and Aesop Rock. I don't know as much about it or as many good artists as I'd like, but I like these guys.

I think most people don't like it because they don't give it a chance. I didn't like Tupac at first, but once I started really listening to him, I realized he's amazing. Also, I think today the majority of music on the radio, rap or not, is terrible, so if you don't give rap a chance and pursue it yourself all you're going to hear is the bad stuff. There's a lot more rock music that has been produced over the years I think, so there's bound to be more "good" rock than "good" rap, just because rock has had a lot more time. So there's less good rap to be found than good rock, I THINK, but it's still worth going after.


I'm really glad you mentioned Aesop Rock. He's one of my favorite rappers. And I liked your point about pursuing rap for yourself that was good.

And on the subject of whether or not rap is music - I can see where you guys are coming from...rap is essentially percussion, a little bassline, and talking....but if you only look at music for music then you're missing half the experience. A big part of music is lyrics...poetry is a big part of the experience, even if it is urban themed and without melody. I doubt half of you could talk as fast as Tech N9ne and not trip over your words. Simply the ability to ennunciate at high speeds like that is admirable. As I said before though, there are lots of rap/hip-hop groups out there that have creative musical backing tracks - especially in the case of organic hip hop because ALL their tracks are bands behind the rappers. You just gotta know where to look. cool.gif

You should all look up Madlib.

This post has been edited by Pantalaimon: Jul 27 2007, 07:41 PM


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shredmandan
post Jul 27 2007, 07:47 PM
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QUOTE (Pavel @ Jul 27 2007, 01:10 PM) *
Agreed! And i just don't think RAP has anything to do with music. It's totally overrated "thing" and, you sure noticed, it's the most commercialized "thing" (i'm not gonna call it music style because it's not) in the music industry!!


Second that biggrin.gif


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FretDancer69
post Jul 27 2007, 07:55 PM
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Well, here's my opinion here:

I hate rap too. Like Paintalaimon said, people like 50 Cent, Snoop Dog, etc. just "rap" about their clothes, money, women, cars, dope, etc. And for a strange reason, this is the kind of "music" that sells more. Why? Probably because the people who listen want to have: clothes, women, cars, drugs, money? Probably, but Rap is ridiculous, its garbage in my opinion.


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KGZ
post Jul 27 2007, 08:05 PM
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Quote:

I hate rap too. Like Paintalaimon said, people like 50 Cent, Snoop Dog, etc. just "rap" about their clothes, money, women, cars, dope, etc. And for a strange reason, this is the kind of "music" that sells more. Why? Probably because the people who listen want to have: clothes, women, cars, drugs, money? Probably, but Rap is ridiculous, its garbage in my opinion.

-------------

I'm sorry but I must disagree. I myself have tried to write raps and create beats. Both are extremely difficult to do [properly]. While I dislike much present day rap music mainly because it has become cliche and ignorant I adore artists like Tupac, Eminem, and even Kanye West. i don't listen to death metal but i've never said that it's not music. All the guitarist really needs to know are a couple power chords, the singer doesn't even need to be able to sing just growl...... that doesn't make it any less musical though. "One's man's trash is another man's treasure".

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Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 27 2007, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE (KGZ @ Jul 27 2007, 03:05 PM) *
All the guitarist really needs to know are a couple power chords, the singer doesn't even need to be able to sing just growl...... that doesn't make it any less musical though. "One's man's trash is another man's treasure".


laugh.gif That's a good counter example - understand somehting before you trash it! I'm sure Rap and Death metal are both art forms when done well - neither appeal to me, but you have to respect peoples efforts to build somehting original.


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Robin
post Jul 27 2007, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE (KGZ @ Jul 27 2007, 07:05 PM) *
i don't listen to death metal but i've never said that it's not music. All the guitarist really needs to know are a couple power chords, the singer doesn't even need to be able to sing just growl...... that doesn't make it any less musical though.

Ha.... ha..... haaa........... thats not true at all.


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Fsgdjv
post Jul 27 2007, 08:25 PM
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I just posted this link in another thread here, but I suppose it wouldn't do any harm if I posted it here aswell.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Bc_0mSydeo&...ted&search=

That's a hip hop song without all that stuff you say you hate (except there's still a lot of the f-word, but I don't mind that since it wouldn't be proper use of the english language not to use it when it's used there). Of course, that's not the ultimate hip hop song or anything, it's just not 50 cent or whatever you hear on the radio everywhere.

Here's another good (in my opinion at least) hip hop song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iE4QciWc6w


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Pantalaimon
post Jul 27 2007, 08:35 PM
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QUOTE (FretDancer69 @ Jul 27 2007, 01:55 PM) *
Well, here's my opinion here:

I hate rap too. Like Paintalaimon said, people like 50 Cent, Snoop Dog, etc. just "rap" about their clothes, money, women, cars, dope, etc. And for a strange reason, this is the kind of "music" that sells more. Why? Probably because the people who listen want to have: clothes, women, cars, drugs, money? Probably, but Rap is ridiculous, its garbage in my opinion.


Snoop's earlier stuff is good. You shouldn't lump him in the same category with all those other club rappers...he's more like Easy E, NWA, and Dr. Dre (which are all pretty good, old skool and simple, but good).

QUOTE (KGZ @ Jul 27 2007, 02:05 PM) *
I'm sorry but I must disagree. I myself have tried to write raps and create beats. Both are extremely difficult to do [properly]. While I dislike much present day rap music mainly because it has become cliche and ignorant I adore artists like Tupac, Eminem, and even Kanye West. i don't listen to death metal but i've never said that it's not music. All the guitarist really needs to know are a couple power chords, the singer doesn't even need to be able to sing just growl...... that doesn't make it any less musical though. "One's man's trash is another man's treasure".


I'm sorry to say, but Kanye West is just bad. He should stick to producing. Most of his production work is amazing (for example - John Legend)...but his raps are just plain horrible. sorry.

but I agree with you on the death metal thing - I am not that great at guitar but I can just tune my guitar Drop D and play some bars and I could have a decent metal rhythm riff in five seconds. However, I'll give death metal some credit - growling is harder than it sounds.


QUOTE (Fsgdjv @ Jul 27 2007, 02:25 PM) *
I just posted this link in another thread here, but I suppose it wouldn't do any harm if I posted it here aswell.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Bc_0mSydeo&...ted&search=

That's a hip hop song without all that stuff you say you hate (except there's still a lot of the f-word, but I don't mind that since it wouldn't be proper use of the english language not to use it when it's used there). Of course, that's not the ultimate hip hop song or anything, it's just not 50 cent or whatever you hear on the radio everywhere.

Here's another good (in my opinion at least) hip hop song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iE4QciWc6w


Atmosphere's alright. Not bad.

I'm a pretty big fan of Lupe Fiasco. smile.gif good picks, mate!

Check these guys out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2FR2HpUpz4 - Tech N9ne
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2seVzSn1-s - Aesop Rock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp2hvM2LL_4 - Outkast

This post has been edited by Pantalaimon: Jul 27 2007, 08:40 PM


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