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fzalfa
post Dec 28 2015, 11:39 PM
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QUOTE
But that is a different story.


this is our goverment errors, they never as t open frontier like they have done, and they must control them.

most of europeen leader are living in another reality, but not in ours.

everyone is love, yes , in the cuddlebear land ! look at our friday 13th.... we pay the price

that's the problem !!


THE SYSTEM HAVE FAIL* !

Laurent


*very cute Megadeth album indeed !

QUOTE
Kinda like speaking about digital aliasing when all you wanted was to improve your bending ph34r.gif


hey ! let's try ! blink.gif

Laurent

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jstcrsn
post Dec 29 2015, 12:54 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 28 2015, 05:39 PM) *
I'm not sure what you mean but from 25:20 is interesting to hear Muslims saying that the radicals aren't following the religion, they say Islam is peaceful.

I will have to beg to differ , who is to say it is not the other way around , have you read the verses or listened to the propaganda that tickled you ears the most.
Now you can not listen to his conjecture , but read for your self what it is
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Mertay
post Dec 29 2015, 09:24 AM
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Very un-cool where the debate started to slide, but though I might not be objective since I live in a muslim country I must reply;

I checked the 98:6 on the video where it mentions at 2.50.

Googled 98:6 in my native language and read 3 websites, they all translate that those who deny a book (yes a book, doesn't specify kur'an) or won't follow the path of god will be punished by hell fire, they are the worst.

Not very like the guys translation is it? smile.gif to be fair, anchient arabic as far as I heard is very hard to translate as one written word can mean different things and even sentences needs expert opinion to be truly understood.

Thats why there are many different translations of kur'an, maybe thousands and one can imagine not all of them are dependable or even ment to be exact translations...

Edit; Made a search in english (wrote kur'an 98:6 on google) , this is a good example of what I mean as it references different peoples translations;

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?ch...=98&verse=6

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jstcrsn
post Dec 29 2015, 12:23 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Dec 29 2015, 09:24 AM) *
Very un-cool where the debate started to slide, but though I might not be objective since I live in a muslim country I must reply;

I checked the 98:6 on the video where it mentions at 2.50.

Googled 98:6 in my native language and read 3 websites, they all translate that those who deny a book (yes a book, doesn't specify kur'an) or won't follow the path of god will be punished by hell fire, they are the worst.

to be fair

Was not meant to offend . I have to ask though ,What kind of culture do we live in , A heteronomous( were a few tell others how to live) or autonomous ( were everyone decides how they want to live)culture. Can I not even ask a question to find a answer . I have tried to be very careful in not saying anything, but rather showing video that I feel has relevance and that deserves a critical ear.
If that verse is not talking about the Qur'an , what other book would matter to get such punishment ?

As for the "to be fair " , Why can we be criticle of every other religion and our perceived inconsistencies, and not hold muslims to the same standard.My thought would be , that If the translation is wrong that a proper translation would be made , if one can not , I have to assume it was correct

For the record ,This guy used to be an atheist who bashed his dad skull in with a hammer , and his best friend in college was a devout Muslim and they would argue constantly , that is how he knows the Quran so well

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Mertay
post Dec 29 2015, 01:34 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Dec 29 2015, 11:23 AM) *
Was not meant to offend . I have to ask though ,What kind of culture do we live in , A heteronomous( were a few tell others how to live) or autonomous ( were everyone decides how they want to live)culture. Can I not even ask a question to find a answer . I have tried to be very careful in not saying anything, but rather showing video that I feel has relevance and that deserves a critical ear.
If that verse is not talking about the Qur'an , what other book would matter to get such punishment ?

As for the "to be fair " , Why can we be criticle of every other religion and our perceived inconsistencies, and not hold muslims to the same standard.My thought would be , that If the translation is wrong that a proper translation would be made , if one can not , I have to assume it was correct

For the record ,This guy used to be an atheist who bashed his dad skull in with a hammer , and his best friend in college was a devout Muslim and they would argue constantly , that is how he knows the Quran so well


No offence taken, its just that video could lead the topic to a yours vs my religion sort of stupid conversations...

That verse refers to atheists are to be punished, probably the Bible would also agree to this.

A simple google searched easily proved that guys comment wrong+misleading but it should also give an idea of how innocent poor children in muslim countrys are brainwashed to join terrorist organisations like isis. Also, like the brainwashed muslim kids, people who watch that freaks videos would believe islam is some sort of satanism tongue.gif

The guy sells hate and there are many like him (doesn't matter religion or political view) don't buy it...

Every religion has details to it, if they were so clear we wouldn't needs priests, imams, churches, mosques... smile.gif as for translation, Islam doesn't have a home or main person in charge like Vatican or the Pope, unfortunatly some manipulate the book by using this. Even in our modern language and education, those who know a second language would agree a word-to-word translation isn't enough to give the proper meaning.

I'm ok for discussing religion, cool if someone disagrees with those protesters (I'm not fond of them either) but using words like muslim, islam, refugees...we have to be careful with those words as they can represent 2 billion individuals, thats why I'm against such generalizations specially used politically.


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klasaine
post Dec 29 2015, 05:26 PM
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All the books are messed up and filled with violence. Especially when you start getting into the various translations.

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves" - Numbers 31: 17-18 KJV

"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the holy man who represents God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged" - Deuteronomy17:12 NLT

"Make ready to slaughter the infidel’s sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants" - Isaiah 14:21 NAB

"Anyone who blasphemes God’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of believers" - Leviticus 24:16 NLT

And they just go on and on and on.
Anyone who takes literally, in modern times, and commits violence in the name of their 'book' ... is a fucking savage. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, whomever.

Karl Marx was right.

So was Lemmy ...
"The only interesting thing about religion is how many people it's slaughtered."

"Religion is stupid anyway. I mean, a virgin gets pregnant by a ghost! You would never get away with that in a divorce court, would you?"

RIP Lemmy.


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AK Rich
post Dec 29 2015, 05:59 PM
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What you say is true, Ken. However, these extreme and outdated beliefs have largely been abandoned a long time ago by most religions. Islamic laws such as Sharia etc are stuck in the middle ages and have no place whatsoever in this century, and are in direct conflict with western laws and society. In my opinion anyone who wishes to live by these kinds of laws are certainly not moderate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/27/world/as...woman.html?_r=3

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-33...sharia-law.html

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klasaine
post Dec 29 2015, 06:25 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Dec 29 2015, 09:59 AM) *
What you say is true, Ken. However, these extreme and outdated beliefs have largely been abandoned a long time ago by most religions. Islamic laws such as Sharia etc are stuck in the middle ages and have no place whatsoever in this century, and are in direct conflict with western laws and society. In my opinion anyone who wishes to live by these kinds of laws are certainly not moderate.


Exactly!
And there's a ton of Christians in this country who try to impose their archaic beliefs on society and more than occasionally resort to violence.

Islam is almost 700 years younger than Christianity. 700 years ago Christians were rampaging around the globe slaughtering and enslaving any 'infidels' they found. Primarily due to a perversion of their book's verses or completely twisted interpretations by psychotic and megalomaniac priests.
Islam needs a reformation. This period is probably it - ?

Slavery, Hitler, Isis, West Bank occupation, Planned Parenthood shootings ... it's all done in the name of "the true god" ... whoever the fuck that is.

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Mertay
post Dec 29 2015, 06:30 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Dec 29 2015, 04:59 PM) *
Islamic laws such as Sharia etc are stuck in the middle ages and have no place whatsoever in this century


+1


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 29 2015, 06:42 PM
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Always consider the source. ALEX JONES runs a faaaaaaar right wing media company that is packed with every conspiracy theory you can imagine that plays to the fears and insecurities of a certain group of folks. Mostly Donal Trump supporters. That sort.. So you have to take it with a grain of salt smile.gif Go check out his youtube channel some time and it will be pretty clear pretty quick what he is about.


KEN had a very good point about islam being much younger than christianity and in fact the entire narrative of Islam is in a state of turmoil. You have moderate muslims that condemn these ancient interpretations and then you have hard core Sharia Law muslims running to join Isis. It really is a fight for the soul of Islam as it were.

On another note, in the Quran, Jesus does return and CONVERTS to being a Muslim and fights in the Jihad. Got a kick out of that smile.gif Who knows. But I guess we will find out at some point.

---
Sheikh Kabbani, Chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America clearly articulates the Islamic perspective regarding Jesus’ evangelistic role when He returns.

Like all prophets, Prophet Jesus came with the divine message of surrender to God Almighty, which is Islam. This verse shows that when Jesus returns he will personally correct the misrepresentations and misinterpretations about himself. He will affirm the true message that he brought in his time as a prophet, and that he never claimed to be the Son of God. Furthermore, he will reaffirm in his second coming what he prophesied in his first coming bearing witness to the seal of the Messengers, Prophet Muhammad. In his second coming many non-Muslims will accept Jesus as a servant of Allah Almighty, as a Muslim and a member of the Community of Muhammad. 11
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Dec 27 2015, 05:00 PM) *
You know I live in Sweden right?

If this info was correct half of the women I know would have been raped...? Yet I have not heard about a single one?

It's important to understand there is a propaganda war being fought. It is not hard to understand why so many rumours about immigrants are circulating currently.


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AK Rich
post Dec 29 2015, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Dec 29 2015, 08:42 AM) *
Always consider the source. ALEX JONES runs a faaaaaaar right wing media company that is packed with every conspiracy theory you can imagine that plays to the fears and insecurities of a certain group of folks. Mostly Donal Trump supporters. That sort.. So you have to take it with a grain of salt smile.gif Go check out his youtube channel some time and it will be pretty clear pretty quick what he is about.

Alex Jones is not far right , he is anti-totalitarian, anti-world government. If you read anything from infowars while Bush was in office you would know this. He bashes the left and the right fairly equally and in case you haven't noticed . Many of yesterdays conspiracy theories are today's mainstream news. Is he an agitator who routinely takes things out of context? Absolutely, but on the other hand he has also been right on many occasions. And there are plenty of mainstream liberal media that do the same thing and need to be taken with a grain of salt as well.

PS: Playing to fears and insecurities.
In addition you can find this kind of practice in ALL news media to some extent. And you can also find this kind of practice coming from politicians from both sides of the aisle on a daily basis.

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fkalich
post Dec 30 2015, 04:52 AM
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It is similar with respect to the Christian Canon. All the Gospels were written in Greek, 30 to 60 years after the events. As you may know, Greek was sort of similar to English back then in that part of the world, a common language. But back then on 5-10% of people were literate. And fewer knew Greek. Certainly fishermen in Judea were not literate, and most certainly not in Greek.

Then you have the fact that we don't have the original copies. We have copies of copies of copies of copies of copies. The oldest transcripts are just scraps, and we have no complete copies until a few centuries after they were originally written.

And in addition there are many changes, additions, deletions. And we are not even sure who wrote much, other than 7 Epistles of Paul. Of his other 6, 3 are obvious forgeries, and 3 others are probable forgeries. Also Greek does not always translate well into other languages.

That being said, well in college I shared an apartment with an Iranian for a year, and got to know about half a dozen other guys from the region. All were funny as hell, great senses of humor. The nuts get the publicity, but they are the exceptions. If you go around saying "Muslims this or Muslims that", yeah you are probably going to get some backlash, that is human nature. But if you stay cool and reasonable, I think most people will return the favor, regardless of race, color or creed.

QUOTE (Mertay @ Dec 29 2015, 03:24 AM) *
Not very like the guys translation is it? smile.gif to be fair, anchient arabic as far as I heard is very hard to translate as one written word can mean different things and even sentences needs expert opinion to be truly understood.

Thats why there are many different translations of kur'an, maybe thousands and one can imagine not all of them are dependable or even ment to be exact translations...

Edit; Made a search in english (wrote kur'an 98:6 on google) , this is a good example of what I mean as it references different peoples translations;

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?ch...=98&verse=6

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