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Todd Simpson
post Jan 2 2016, 09:52 AM
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So much of this is so subjective that it can be difficult to quantify in text. It will really come down to your ears. Any decent 1x12 will get the job done in your home studio for recording. Extension cab is just a term that typically means "not full size". Recording your 4x8 is an entirely different world than recording with full size drivers/speakers just because of the tonal differences. I'm sure with enough practice you can get a sound you are happy enough with, recorded. But I do think you'd be happier with a full size speaker, at least one speaker anyway smile.gif Just a v30 in a box basically.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 1 2016, 05:29 AM) *
Thanks Todd,
The Mesa is more than I want to pay but the Randall and one of the Marshalls look good. I always think of Dime when I think of Randall, I love his work and Tone but it's not the tone I want. How are the cabs voiced? I was thinking of finding one with Celestion V30 which seems to be very popular.
I've noticed some 1x12 cabs advertised as extension cabs is this different to a normal cab?
I think it might be an idea to get and record the amp through my Blackstar 4x8 first as you and Mertay have a good reference point with that cab. What do you think.
Cheers


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Mertay
post Jan 2 2016, 10:53 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 2 2016, 08:52 AM) *
...


I tested pluging the ts9 to the send-return of my amp but its couldn't get any sound (pedal on or off). Maybe its because its not in a good shape or maybe its not true-bypass...

I thought maybe phil could decrease the output of an amp like that so he can use higher-watt amps? could you check this for us?

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 2 2016, 08:36 AM) *
...


Didn't work but I suspect its my amp related as its not in a good shape, lets see what Todd has to say for the idea...


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Phil66
post Jan 2 2016, 12:14 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 2 2016, 08:52 AM) *
So much of this is so subjective that it can be difficult to quantify in text. It will really come down to your ears. Any decent 1x12 will get the job done in your home studio for recording. Extension cab is just a term that typically means "not full size". Recording your 4x8 is an entirely different world than recording with full size drivers/speakers just because of the tonal differences. I'm sure with enough practice you can get a sound you are happy enough with, recorded. But I do think you'd be happier with a full size speaker, at least one speaker anyway smile.gif Just a v30 in a box basically.

Thanks Todd,
My problem is, I'm always trying to cover as many bases as possible to cover the future as much as possible, too many times I've got a month down the line and thought "I wish I'd........ ".
I'm going to get a 1x12 preferably with a Vintage30 in it and keep the 4x8 to run at the same time. I'm also thinking, when I get more proficient in the recording department I can mic both cabs for more flavour, obviously this will need a new interface but as I said, I'm covering bases wink.gif
Cheers



QUOTE (Mertay @ Jan 2 2016, 09:53 AM) *
I tested pluging the ts9 to the send-return of my amp but its couldn't get any sound (pedal on or off). Maybe its because its not in a good shape or maybe its not true-bypass...

I thought maybe phil could decrease the output of an amp like that so he can use higher-watt amps? could you check this for us?



Didn't work but I suspect its my amp related as its not in a good shape, lets see what Todd has to say for the idea...

Thanks Mertay,
That opens up a whole new world. I was reading about attenuators a while back, (I put a thread up) but many said that they can damage the amp. Maybe the fx loop is better. I wonder what a volume pedal in the loop would do??
Cheers


Update:
I'm back home now so can do some good research smile.gif
Couple of videos of demos of the Laney IRT Pulse which may give indication of tones available in IRT Studio head. One does some jazz tones.



Update II:
Something keeps pulling me back to the IRT. The demo halfway down THIS page sound great to me, obviously the guy can play which makes a difference to me playing through the same thing but I think the tones he's getting are sweet, it goes into a slow clean section in the middle. I need to find a demo of it doing some dirty blues.

Update III:
What you reckon to this? I found the point a 2:55 pretty impressive even though it lacks a bit of sparkle, could that be the guitar being turned down? 3:58 sound ok to me too, 4:21 some funk style strumming. Seems more versatile than first thought.


This post has been edited by Phil66: Jan 2 2016, 06:28 PM


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Mertay
post Jan 2 2016, 07:27 PM
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Some reading while waiting smile.gif check the "pull it all together" , seem the cab. can be just as important for lesser loudness; http://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/tech-tip...lifier-loudness

and this is a really long one; http://proguitarshop.com/andyscorner/appropriate-wattage


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Todd Simpson
post Jan 2 2016, 08:58 PM
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The LANEY is a great piece of kit smile.gif The smaller pedal shaped PULSE may be a better way to start just because it's a good bit cheaper and still retains a lot of the tone. You can even put a tube screamer in front of it and it will respond like an amp head. But it's certainly less capable than the IRT. Keep in mind there is a cheaper version of that rack unit, but it doesn't have usb. As for the IRT, It's just a killer unit and can do a variety of tones all the way from blues to death metal. For that price though, you are not getting any fx. I considered the IRT myself, but I wanted fx on tap that can be midi controlled. So I got the 11 rack. As many tones as any head I've tried, plus FX plus usb recording, plus a XLR tube preamp on the front for microphone input, plus a software editor, plus MIDI for foot control. But some folks just need tubes smile.gif




QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 2 2016, 06:14 AM) *
Thanks Todd,
My problem is, I'm always trying to cover as many bases as possible to cover the future as much as possible, too many times I've got a month down the line and thought "I wish I'd........ ".
I'm going to get a 1x12 preferably with a Vintage30 in it and keep the 4x8 to run at the same time. I'm also thinking, when I get more proficient in the recording department I can mic both cabs for more flavour, obviously this will need a new interface but as I said, I'm covering bases wink.gif
Cheers




Thanks Mertay,
That opens up a whole new world. I was reading about attenuators a while back, (I put a thread up) but many said that they can damage the amp. Maybe the fx loop is better. I wonder what a volume pedal in the loop would do??
Cheers


Update:
I'm back home now so can do some good research smile.gif
Couple of videos of demos of the Laney IRT Pulse which may give indication of tones available in IRT Studio head. One does some jazz tones.



Update II:
Something keeps pulling me back to the IRT. The demo halfway down THIS page sound great to me, obviously the guy can play which makes a difference to me playing through the same thing but I think the tones he's getting are sweet, it goes into a slow clean section in the middle. I need to find a demo of it doing some dirty blues.

Update III:
What you reckon to this? I found the point a 2:55 pretty impressive even though it lacks a bit of sparkle, could that be the guitar being turned down? 3:58 sound ok to me too, 4:21 some funk style strumming. Seems more versatile than first thought.


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Phil66
post Jan 2 2016, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Jan 2 2016, 06:27 PM) *
Some reading while waiting smile.gif check the "pull it all together" , seem the cab. can be just as important for lesser loudness; http://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/tech-tip...lifier-loudness

and this is a really long one; http://proguitarshop.com/andyscorner/appropriate-wattage


Thanks Mertay,
Yeah, the speaker efficiency does make a huge difference, I know about that from my hi-fi upgrades. Problem is, with "true" hi-fi, your trying to recreate as close to the source (master tapes) as possible given equipment and environmental limitations whereas with a guitar cab, you are trying to achieve a tone, if that tone comes from an efficient cone it's not, in my case ideal sad.gif I think, for me, I'd rather have an efficient cone, lower wattage amp than less efficient cone with a higher wattage amp, does this make sense and is it actually sense? wink.gif
I mean, 80 watts guitar amp is a loud amp, I have my 80 watt Meridian often running at 70% (when my wife is out) and you can just hear it in the back garden with the windows closed but it's no way offensive, in the neighbours' garden it's barely audible. I've just done some db tests out of interest. The volume on my Meridian F80 (SPECS) goes from 1-99. At 6" (150mm) from the front number 30 gives 56db150cm , 80 gives 95db, 99 gives 100db this is with a CD Black Stone Cherry- Between The Devil And The Deep Blue Sea. You cant run it at 99 really, not with rock, the transient attack on the drums makes it display "HOT" and turn itself down rolleyes.gif
It's not the same for a guitar amp/speaker running at 80 watts even with an inefficient cone, unless I'm mistaken. I've never really run my Blackstar cranked on full gain and volume. This is why I'm thinking one of these switchable wattage amps might be good for me.

What did you think of the IRT Pulse? I wouldn't have one but I thought it might give more insight.
What did you think of the latest demo of the IRT Studio that I put up?
What did you think of the volume pedal in fx loop?

Thank you so much for your time Mertay, I feel we are nearly their in getting a half decent multi approach home studio going, just gotta learn how to play then laugh.gif I can see me ending up with a full rack replacing one of the Blackstar 4x8 cabs in the future blink.gif

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 2 2016, 07:58 PM) *
The LANEY is a great piece of kit smile.gif The smaller pedal shaped PULSE may be a better way to start just because it's a good bit cheaper and still retains a lot of the tone. You can even put a tube screamer in front of it and it will respond like an amp head. But it's certainly less capable than the IRT. Keep in mind there is a cheaper version of that rack unit, but it doesn't have usb. As for the IRT, It's just a killer unit and can do a variety of tones all the way from blues to death metal. For that price though, you are not getting any fx. I considered the IRT myself, but I wanted fx on tap that can be midi controlled. So I got the 11 rack. As many tones as any head I've tried, plus FX plus usb recording, plus a XLR tube preamp on the front for microphone input, plus a software editor, plus MIDI for foot control. But some folks just need tubes smile.gif


Thanks Todd,
I didn't realise the Eleven Rack was a head. Thing is I like to keep my effects and amps separate. Maybe it's because I am basically a newbie and don't fully understand everything. It's not that I need tubes, I've just rediscovered playing through an amp, and even with my limited skills it just felt so sweet, there's something about it. That's how I got into all the mic questions over in the other GAS thread, (HERE for those that are interested).

I am still thinking the IRT is for me, the more I watch the more I get an idea of its scope, even though YouTube isn't the best for tone listening wink.gif

Cheers


This post has been edited by Phil66: Jan 2 2016, 09:27 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Jan 2 2016, 09:47 PM
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The 11 Rack is NOT a head. Sorry to confuse smile.gif It's a preamp. So I run it directly to my monitors (Rockit 6 by KRK) if you have a pair of studio monitors you don't need a head or a power amp. it also acts as your audio interface. smile.gif But for gigging, add a power amp of any kind including a combo amp on clean.

In short, it's the center of my home studio. The reason I skipped the IRT was that it had no fx and had no XLR input/mic preamp. It's just a low watt tube head. But it's a nice one smile.gif


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 2 2016, 03:32 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
Yeah, the speaker efficiency does make a huge difference, I know about that from my hi-fi upgrades. Problem is, with "true" hi-fi, your trying to recreate as close to the source (master tapes) as possible given equipment and environmental limitations whereas with a guitar cab, you are trying to achieve a tone, if that tone comes from an efficient cone it's not, in my case ideal sad.gif I think, for me, I'd rather have an efficient cone, lower wattage amp than less efficient cone with a higher wattage amp, does this make sense and is it actually sense? wink.gif
I mean, 80 watts guitar amp is a loud amp, I have my 80 watt Meridian often running at 70% (when my wife is out) and you can just hear it in the back garden with the windows closed but it's no way offensive, in the neighbours' garden it's barely audible. I've just done some db tests out of interest. The volume on my Meridian F80 (SPECS) goes from 1-99. At 6" (150mm) from the front number 30 gives 56db150cm , 80 gives 95db, 99 gives 100db this is with a CD Black Stone Cherry- Between The Devil And The Deep Blue Sea. You cant run it at 99 really, not with rock, the transient attack on the drums makes it display "HOT" and turn itself down rolleyes.gif
It's not the same for a guitar amp/speaker running at 80 watts even with an inefficient cone, unless I'm mistaken. I've never really run my Blackstar cranked on full gain and volume. This is why I'm thinking one of these switchable wattage amps might be good for me.

What did you think of the IRT Pulse? I wouldn't have one but I thought it might give more insight.
What did you think of the latest demo of the IRT Studio that I put up?
What did you think of the volume pedal in fx loop?

Thank you so much for your time Mertay, I feel we are nearly their in getting a half decent multi approach home studio going, just gotta learn how to play then laugh.gif I can see me ending up with a full rack replacing one of the Blackstar 4x8 cabs in the future blink.gif



Thanks Todd,
I didn't realise the Eleven Rack was a head. Thing is I like to keep my effects and amps separate. Maybe it's because I am basically a newbie and don't fully understand everything. It's not that I need tubes, I've just rediscovered playing through an amp, and even with my limited skills it just felt so sweet, there's something about it. That's how I got into all the mic questions over in the other GAS thread, (HERE for those that are interested).

I am still thinking the IRT is for me, the more I watch the more I get an idea of its scope, even though YouTube isn't the best for tone listening wink.gif

Cheers


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jan 2 2016, 09:48 PM


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Phil66
post Jan 2 2016, 09:55 PM
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Ahh,

I have my GT-001 setup like that into the monitors. Don't need the PC switched on to play through it if I want a quick noodle wink.gif I don't really want to be learning a new fx system just yet, I'm just getting comfortable with the UI for the Boss but one day, it will happen. wink.gif

Another decent little demo showing some of the clean and crunchy settings wink.gif


Cheers

This post has been edited by Phil66: Jan 2 2016, 10:19 PM


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Mertay
post Jan 3 2016, 09:58 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 2 2016, 08:32 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
Yeah, the speaker efficiency does make a huge difference...This is why I'm thinking one of these switchable wattage amps might be good for me.

What did you think of the IRT Pulse? I wouldn't have one but I thought it might give more insight.
What did you think of the latest demo of the IRT Studio that I put up?
What did you think of the volume pedal in fx loop?

Thank you so much for your time Mertay, I feel we are nearly their in getting a half decent multi approach home studio going, just gotta learn how to play then laugh.gif I can see me ending up with a full rack replacing one of the Blackstar 4x8 cabs in the future blink.gif


smile.gif

Yeah the irt pulse is pretty sweet, aside from computer related usages I really like whats going on these days in the super small amp area of products.

As for the latests demo on irt studio, I'd love to shred with those tones (sort of familiar to my setup with pedals too) but for clean to low gain I still hear it being very american/metal amp voiced smile.gif

As for the volume pedal on fx loop, I really have to try this myself which I can't biggrin.gif I'm sure it will solve the issue with un-low-adjustable volume knob of an amp but I'm not sure of the side effects like how much noise would be added or if the tone will get muddy. I did a lot of things with an fx loop like direct connecting an amp to a soundcard from there but never really thought about volume issues.

...And an amp I noticed (though combo) you could check out;



Edit; seems the 15W head version can also decrease volume with pentode/triode (check near ending of video);



This post has been edited by Mertay: Jan 3 2016, 10:04 AM


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Phil66
post Jan 3 2016, 03:58 PM
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Thanks Mertay,
I really want a head though.
I think I may have found what I want wink.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lycB8tEErws


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1G6K0f32xY


Then I start looking at the 6505 mini head again. I don't even think a test in a shop would help. It would come down to time with each of these but I think I've now narrowed it down to these two. For the time being rolleyes.gif


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Mertay
post Jan 3 2016, 05:10 PM
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That valveking seems to be the most flexable option I listened till now. Its got the bright cleans, can sound traditional too and the dist. sounds are as cool as the cleans smile.gif

Did you check the 100W version? it can go down to 5W rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Jan 3 2016, 05:10 PM


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Phil66
post Jan 3 2016, 05:46 PM
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Yes mate I did but it's over £700.
Apart from the power and more knobs what do you think the benefit would be?
Also, I think the Valveking is more flexible that the 6505 do you?
Cheers

Update:
The demo below is recorded through THIS cab which seems to be a total bargain considering it has a Celestion Vintage 30 in it. What do you think about this cab?

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_g112vintage.htm


This post has been edited by Phil66: Jan 3 2016, 06:42 PM


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Mertay
post Jan 3 2016, 07:59 PM
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Well, the versatility comes from the extra knobs really smile.gif

I frequently find myself tweaking the presence and high knob to finetune the sparkle for edge-of-breakup stuff. Resonance knobs usually help either to help cut through the mix, or make the character of an amp go from traditional to metal...separate eq's are always great, if you want to jump from a sparkly clean to distroy the world distortion, such distortion always needs the highs to be chopped off.

Also seems there's 7 tubes in that amp which is crazy smile.gif hard to generalize but probably helps to get a richer sound for again edge-of-breakup sounds.

Seems both the small and big versions are pretty cool, loving the cleans on that thomann video you shared. This one is from the peavey channel;



As for the 6505, its signature sound is very recognisable to me on every version of it, sort of like vintage metal smile.gif thats why I personally can't consider it to be versatile.


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Phil66
post Jan 3 2016, 08:11 PM
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Thanks Mertay,
So do you think that Harley Benton cab is worth buying NOW? For the money it seems a good starting point even with the Blackstar and Vox.
Cheers


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Mertay
post Jan 3 2016, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 3 2016, 07:11 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,
So do you think that Harley Benton cab is worth buying NOW? For the money it seems a good starting point even with the Blackstar and Vox.
Cheers


Forgot to mention that smile.gif

I checked some reviews on web and everyone seems to like it, checked vintage 30; http://celestion.com/product/1/vintage_30/ and seems power rating is 60watts so its good for home. From the video it sound cool so yeah its great but it shouldn't affect your amp budget as thats more important smile.gif also keep in mind its 8ohm.s just incase though 8ohm is pretty much a standard feature on all amps...


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Phil66
post Jan 3 2016, 09:56 PM
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Cab ordered, I wanted a 1x12 anyway so that's all good.

More research into the amp but I think the Valveking is the one smile.gif

Thank you for your help my friend. I honestly appreciate it.

Cheers


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Mertay
post Jan 3 2016, 10:41 PM
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Awesome! after the amp is selected we have lots of listening tests to do biggrin.gif


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Phil66
post Jan 3 2016, 11:20 PM
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I'm up for it if you are Mertay but please don't feel obliged, you have been a diamond already and I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much
Cheers


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Chris Harrington
post Jan 4 2016, 01:20 PM
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Hey Phil,

Friend of mine has a ValveKing and its a great amp, really versatile and the vari-class A - A/B feature is great for really clear cleans and also stacked tube driven distortion sounds. If I remember correctly the output options for recording are really good too, loads of options.

Looking forward to hearing your rig!


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Phil66
post Jan 4 2016, 03:17 PM
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Thanks Chris,

I'm definitely getting one of those Mojo amps you have too, too cute to avoid wink.gif And at £99 a total steal smile.gif

Cheers


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