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> Phil Anselmo: A Racist
Todd Simpson
post Feb 9 2016, 02:05 AM
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He is a bigot and I'm all for calling him out for it and for calling any bigots out for being such smile.gif So I'm with ya!! Probably still listen to Pantera when the mood strikes, but I stream most music so I'm boycotting buying music directly it seems. I do buy indie stuff (like Ben Higgins killer stuff) and such but not much beyond that. Bought the Halcyon Way record as they are local boys smile.gif

I do think it's on phil to be or not be a racist ass. Just as it's on anyone. It's on other folks to call him on it. PHIL YOU ARE A RACIST ASS!! smile.gif Your old band was pretty good though back in the day. Since then, mostly just a bigot trying to stay relevant. Teaching our kids that bigotry and ignorance are simply not cool and not something to be honored is one thing we can do. Kids. Sometimes they go the other way and burn down churches though.

Then again, seeing Donald Trump say we should "Ban all Muslims" from entering the country was something I did find truly sad. Let's just start banning people due to their faith system. Egad. Let's wall ourselves in as well!!! Let's take down the statue of liberty as well since that pesky sign is on it talking about "give us your tired/poor/huddled masses" and such. But Trumps fans scare me more than Phils do.

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AK Rich
post Feb 9 2016, 03:35 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 8 2016, 04:05 PM) *
Then again, seeing Donald Trump say we should "Ban all Muslims" from entering the country was something I did find truly sad. Let's just start banning people due to their faith system. Egad. Let's wall ourselves in as well!!! Let's take down the statue of liberty as well since that pesky sign is on it talking about "give us your tired/poor/huddled masses" and such. But Trumps fans scare me more than Phils do.

Seriously? Something that turns me off almost as much as racism are false accusations of it. And the way you leave out the entirety of what Trump has said concerning Muslim immigration kind of reminds me of the tactics of a guy named Alex Jones. wink.gif or CNN, take your pick.

This post has been edited by AK Rich: Feb 9 2016, 06:09 AM
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jstcrsn
post Feb 9 2016, 04:00 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 9 2016, 02:05 AM) *
Then again, seeing Donald Trump say we should "Ban all Muslims" from entering the country was something I did find truly sad. Let's just start banning people due to their faith system. Egad. Let's wall ourselves in as well!!! Let's take down the statue of liberty as well since that pesky sign is on it talking about "give us your tired/poor/huddled masses" and such. But Trumps fans scare me more than Phils do.

Donald Trump said" lets not let them enter until we figure this thing out" , Which to me seems smart. To much of that lowest rated news show MSNBC , Todd
And does this not offend you as well. http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/feb/...r-super-bowl-50 , Black panther salutes, her back up dancers wearing black panther beret

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fzalfa
post Feb 9 2016, 03:03 PM
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This affair have effect even in france, because the organisator of the Hellfest festival, have their regional subvention closed cause the band DOWN is programmed, and the state governemenbt want to cancel this one !!

Google translation

QUOTE
Dear Ms. Garnier, Chez Mr Retailleau, respectively President of the Culture Committee and President of the Regional Council of Pays de la Loire.
It only took you just over two months to find the famous pretext for canceling a historic partnership, along 10 years from the Pays de la Loire, and HELLFEST festival, biggest music festival current in France I represent.
Not because I do not like. "No doubt you'll be hard pressed to convince many ligériens that your original intention was to build a partnership with our event you perceive as a Satanist and violent.
So yes, I repeat to you: keep your subsidies, we, lovers of extreme music, do not need to take lessons from moral politicians who have never taken the trouble to visit, understand and consider our festival and to require her a course of action. Do not you think that we are the organizers and participants festival faithful to the event to decide what is good and what is not for our event which you know nothing? Do not you think rather that it is your duty to elected officials worry about the real problems that plague our society rather than you take in a festival and a passionate music community, living for 3 days peace and harmony and that almost all the inhabitants of Clisson rent respect, politeness and kindness?
Ms. Garnier, Mr. Retailleau, you are wrong and I am saddened but your first small tactical politicians can not come to cover the reality of the situation: You just had to find a pretext to justify the decision of this partnership. Point of concern from our side, we were prepared for it upon your election. The HELLFEST is and will remain an apolitical festival, pacifist, independent, organized by fans for fans who never stopped to sound his music that you feel so evil and "pariah" in contrast to all those who have had the chance to come and visit. I also challenge you to find me if only one person who attended our festival and can prove that our event is a gathering inciting racial or religious hatred. You will not find any, Madame and Monsieur elected ... again you are wrong fight. Ms. Garnier, I you know a candidate for the term of office of the city of Nantes, which I deeply in my heart, city oh culture and I'm proud, I urge you to reconsider your position because I live (and many Nantes also ) very badly Nantes to "selective breeding".
May our "Fire" grant to help dynamic cultural associations, innovative and creative dreams ... and knowing when it is needed, beyond the limits of political correctness ... BORN TO LOSE LIVE TO WIN, LONG LIVE ROCK 'N'ROLL!
Ben Barbaud
President of the Association HELLFEST PRODUCTIONS
PS: Forgiveness and understanding are not only as Christian virtues. HELLFEST enthusiasts and extreme music are also people able to discuss and accept the differences of opinions.


thanks Phil and thanks our bloody government .......

Laurent

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Todd Simpson
post Feb 9 2016, 07:05 PM
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Sorry to offend smile.gif Alex Jones is a bit of a stretch to compare with CNN IMHO, but he has his own audience and makes a living from it. Bit alarmist for my taste though sad.gif I"m not a "Trumper" as you might have guessed though smile.gif I'm actually liking Bernie Sanders the more I hear from him. And yes, he's Jewish. So I don't think Phil will vote for him smile.gif

QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 8 2016, 09:35 PM) *
Seriously? Something that turns me off almost as much as racism are false accusations of it. And the way you leave out the entirety of what Trump has said concerning Muslim immigration kind of reminds me of the tactics of a guy named Alex Jones. wink.gif or CNN, take your pick.



What does "figure this out" mean? how do you quantify that in terms of time/resources, etc? That's not policy, that's fear mongering IMHO and shoujld be called out as such. From where I sit, it's just as worthy to be called out as Phils racist vibe. But that's just me smile.gif Everyone is free to think/feel whatever they want wink.gif

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Feb 8 2016, 10:00 PM) *
Donald Trump said" lets not let them enter until we figure this thing out" , Which to me seems smart. To much of that lowest rated news show MSNBC , Todd
And does this not offend you as well. http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/feb/...r-super-bowl-50 , Black panther salutes, her back up dancers wearing black panther beret


Back to Phil, yea, he's a bit of an old Sknhead and waves his hate flate a bit higher each year it seems. Then again, hate seems to be growing on a global level. All the folks fleeing the war in Syria know all about it. My own govt never learns it seems and wants to get rid of the bad guy leading the blood bath (President Assad) which usually leads to an even bigger blood bath, (See Irag, Afghanistan, any other country where we took out the top bad guy and division and civil war and ISIS followed)

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AK Rich
post Feb 9 2016, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 9 2016, 09:05 AM) *
Sorry to offend smile.gif Alex Jones is a bit of a stretch to compare with CNN IMHO, but he has his own audience and makes a living from it. Bit alarmist for my taste though sad.gif I"m not a "Trumper" as you might have guessed though smile.gif I'm actually liking Bernie Sanders the more I hear from him. And yes, he's Jewish. So I don't think Phil will vote for him smile.gif

No offense taken, so no worries. I would add that letting emotions cloud better judgement and rational thinking is a very dangerous trait of the left.
At least Sanders has the balls to admit he is a Socialist, unlike the rest of the Democrat party.

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jstcrsn
post Feb 9 2016, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 9 2016, 07:05 PM) *
Sorry to offend smile.gif Alex Jones is a bit of a stretch to compare with CNN IMHO, but he has his own audience and makes a living from it. Bit alarmist for my taste though sad.gif I"m not a "Trumper" as you might have guessed though smile.gif I'm actually liking Bernie Sanders the more I hear from him. And yes, he's Jewish. So I don't think Phil will vote for him smile.gif




What does "figure this out" mean? how do you quantify that in terms of time/resources, etc? That's not policy, that's fear mongering IMHO and shoujld be called out as such. From where I sit, it's just as worthy to be called out as Phils racist vibe. But that's just me smile.gif Everyone is free to think/feel whatever they want wink.gif



Back to Phil, yea, he's a bit of an old Sknhead and waves his hate flate a bit higher each year it seems. Then again, hate seems to be growing on a global level. All the folks fleeing the war in Syria know all about it. My own govt never learns it seems and wants to get rid of the bad guy leading the blood bath (President Assad) which usually leads to an even bigger blood bath, (See Irag, Afghanistan, any other country where we took out the top bad guy and division and civil war and ISIS followed)

its good to see you embracing Bernie , now that you have accepted your true socialistic tendencies it will be easier discussing things rather that trying to debate a socialist in a libertarian "sheepskin"
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klasaine
post Feb 10 2016, 01:46 AM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 9 2016, 11:21 AM) *
I would add that letting emotions cloud better judgement and rational thinking is a very dangerous trait of the left.


It seems to be pretty common and uniform across the entire socio/political landscape at present.

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Todd Simpson
post Feb 10 2016, 09:10 AM
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He's not shy about it at all smile.gif Honestly I think a pinch of European style this and that in terms of free education and health care would be a good thing. The middle class bailed out wall street via the tax base used to pay for their mess and I"m all for letting the top 1 percent pay a bit more and help everyone else before the middle class goes away entirely and all we have are the very rich and very poor which is what usually happens right before an armed revolution.

QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 9 2016, 01:21 PM) *
No offense taken, so no worries. I would add that letting emotions cloud better judgement and rational thinking is a very dangerous trait of the left.
At least Sanders has the balls to admit he is a Socialist, unlike the rest of the Democrat party.


Libertarians have the "liberty" to be as "socialist" as they like smile.gif That's sorta the point. But folks seem to equate socialist programs as bad things. Social Security is my fave socialist style program but everyone seems ok on that one. It's about time we quit spending billions on stealth jets to fight non existent enemies and more on education and healthcare imho. At least that is how I"ll vote. But yeah I still fly the libertarian flag smile.gif


QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Feb 9 2016, 05:54 PM) *
its good to see you embracing Bernie , now that you have accepted your true socialistic tendencies it will be easier discussing things rather that trying to debate a socialist in a libertarian "sheepskin"


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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 11 2016, 10:09 AM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 8 2016, 07:14 PM) *
First of all I would hardly consider Phil the frontman of metal, not even close actually. But even if he was, I don't see all his fans, or even anywhere close to a majority of his fans as having the same ideology. I would suggest that number of his fans believing as him to be a fraction of the fanbase. What percent of his fans on this website would you consider believe what Phil does?
And in this day and age, how is is possible that anyone that has been to school for at least 6 years not know of the suffering that racism has caused?

You seem to be giving the guy far more credit than he is due as far as his influence goes. And at the same time not much credit at all to his fans as far as knowing the difference between right and wrong goes. I am not saying because of that that you shouldn't speak out, absolutely you should which brings me to the next point.


This is not really about how big we consider Phil to [still] be relative to other metal acts. It's about how big the racist statement is, and since it's coming from Phil it's probably the biggest one so far in metal (correct me if I am wrong?) This leads me to answering your next paragraph:


QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 8 2016, 07:14 PM) *
There is absolutely no difference whatsoever from some small punk bands lyrics and what Phil said. Racism is racism is racism period!
Whether it comes from Phil or some knucklehead standing on a street corner. and it doesn't matter whether it comes from someone who is blue, green, brown, red or purple. it is all the same. I have to say this because believe it or not , some folks think racism can only come from white folks.


...so in other words I don't think you are correct here. It is much more important to distance ourselves against Phil's statement, than some small Punk band. See my explanation above. We are not discussing moral here, we are being strategic about what to prioritise.


QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 8 2016, 07:14 PM) *
I would say you have been very naive if you haven't thought his lyrics were personal beliefs and even if they weren't his beliefs there is still a racist message there so whats the difference whether he meant it or not? Hello! It is still a racist message! And hello again as Ken has pointed out there are racist messages in lots of metal and lots of other bad messages too right?


With this logic - I am probably the weirdest and most disgusting guy in the world - don't listen to my lyrics!!!! ph34r.gif ph34r.gif ph34r.gif

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 9 2016, 02:05 AM) *
I do think it's on phil to be or not be a racist ass. Just as it's on anyone. It's on other folks to call him on it. PHIL YOU ARE A RACIST ASS!! smile.gif Your old band was pretty good though back in the day.


Yes that's what it's about.

Unless you support racism - now is a good time for metal fans to make statement against Phil/racism in metal. If we let it pass now, we will allow racism to establish itself in metal on a broader scale than before.

Obviously we could make statements all the time against racism that happens EVERYWHERE and ALL THE TIME. You'd have my wholehearted support for that as well.

But again, if you have other things you want to accomplish in your life as well - then you need to prioritise.

So now is a good time for metal fans to make a statement against Phil/racism in metal. That's what it's about.


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jstcrsn
post Feb 11 2016, 12:55 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 11 2016, 10:09 AM) *
This is not really about how big we consider Phil to [still] be relative to other metal acts. It's about how big the racist statement is, and since it's coming from Phil it's probably the biggest one so far in metal (correct me if I am wrong?) This leads me to answering your next paragraph:




...so in other words I don't think you are correct here. It is much more important to distance ourselves against Phil's statement, than some small Punk band. See my explanation above. We are not discussing moral here, we are being strategic about what to prioritise.




With this logic - I am probably the weirdest and most disgusting guy in the world - don't listen to my lyrics!!!! ph34r.gif ph34r.gif ph34r.gif



Yes that's what it's about.

Unless you support racism - now is a good time for metal fans to make statement against Phil/racism in metal. If we let it pass now, we will allow racism to establish itself in metal on a broader scale than before.

Obviously we could make statements all the time against racism that happens EVERYWHERE and ALL THE TIME. You'd have my wholehearted support for that as well.

But again, if you have other things you want to accomplish in your life as well - then you need to prioritise.

So now is a good time for metal fans to make a statement against Phil/racism in metal. That's what it's about.

so.. are you equally disgusted about Beyonce's back up dancers giving a Black panthers "Black Power " salute http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/feb/...r-super-bowl-50
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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 11 2016, 02:34 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Feb 11 2016, 12:55 PM) *
so.. are you equally disgusted about Beyonce's back up dancers giving a Black panthers "Black Power " salute http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/feb/...r-super-bowl-50


No, are you?


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klasaine
post Feb 11 2016, 03:29 PM
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I was just looking at their legs. Seriously - didn't even notice the berets or the 'salute'.

I can guarantee you that most of the 'general' public, black or white, didn't put that together either (or even know anything at all about the Panthers) ... until the next day when a handful of commentators brought it up.
It's the super bowl. It's all hot dogs, pepsi, nachos and budweiser. Bruno Mars was the only thing that was even remotely deserving of any attention the entire 3 hours.

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AK Rich
post Feb 11 2016, 06:14 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 11 2016, 05:29 AM) *
I was just looking at their legs. Seriously - didn't even notice the berets or the 'salute'.

I can guarantee you that most of the 'general' public, black or white, didn't put that together either (or even know anything at all about the Panthers) ... until the next day when a handful of commentators brought it up.
It's the super bowl. It's all hot dogs, pepsi, nachos and budweiser. Bruno Mars was the only thing that was even remotely deserving of any attention the entire 3 hours.

Really? That part of the halftime show was talked about in the news for a couple days running up to the game. And I guarantee you many knew about it because of BLM bombing social media about it in the runnup to the game.
I like Bruno too but c'mon man, it's the Superbowl and it was a good game.
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AK Rich
post Feb 11 2016, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 11 2016, 12:09 AM) *
With this logic - I am probably the weirdest and most disgusting guy in the world - don't listen to my lyrics!!!! ph34r.gif ph34r.gif ph34r.gif.

Have you listened to Zappa? biggrin.gif
Basically we don't agree on the other points I guess because I think that Phil's influence is miniscule and you seem to think it is huge. And in my opinion a small punk band is no less worthy of being called out than Phil is.
Now on the other hand, that Superbowl halftime show was broadcast to millions all over the world. If you are not worried about what the Black Panthers represent then maybe you don't know about the history of the Black Panthers. Many folks within the group were legit but many of them were and are completely racist and militant and encourage the same kind of segregation they claim to be against. Because of this there was lots of infighting within the movement with the more radical of them ending up leading them.

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klasaine
post Feb 11 2016, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Feb 11 2016, 10:14 AM) *
Really? That part of the halftime show was talked about in the news for a couple days running up to the game. And I guarantee you many knew about it because of BLM bombing social media about it in the runnup to the game.


I don't know. Maybe it's regional - ?
Nobody out here cares or pays any real attention to any of that stuff. And nobody's talking about it.
We have water, drought, transpo, pollution, income inequality, severe homelessness and public school issues to deal with. Beyonce and Phil Anselmo and by extension the Panthers and neo Nazis are the least of our problems.

*Apparently Beyonce managed to piss off both the left (appropriated Katrina images, etc.) and the right (berets, salute, etc.).
She must be doing something right.
Go Bey!

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jstcrsn
post Feb 12 2016, 06:02 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 11 2016, 02:34 PM) *
No, are you?

yes I am and I don't see how this isn't hypocritical of you , A white guy can't say white power but A black women can give a Black power salute and it's fine with you, please help me to understand your thought process

QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 11 2016, 09:17 PM) *
I don't know. Maybe it's regional - ?
Nobody out here cares or pays any real attention to any of that stuff. And nobody's talking about it.
We have water, drought, transpo, pollution, income inequality, severe homelessness and public school issues to deal with. Beyonce and Phil Anselmo and by extension the Panthers and neo Nazis are the least of our problems.

*Apparently Beyonce managed to piss off both the left (appropriated Katrina images, etc.) and the right (berets, salute, etc.).
She must be doing something right.
Go Bey!

I dig your equality Ken with them both, it's consistent and It's refreshing
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klasaine
post Feb 13 2016, 12:39 AM
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If nothing else, I think I'm relatively balanced(?).
What I see and hear, from all sides, is fear mongering. And I'm just not that scared. It's so blatantly over the top. How can anyone take it seriously. Again, both sides/all sides. It's like watching Saturday Night Live in the 70s and 80s.
As my mid-western, Korean war vet father likes to say ... "Compared to Hitler and Stalin, this is all just pussy shit".

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Kristofer Dahl
post Feb 13 2016, 09:08 AM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Feb 12 2016, 06:02 PM) *
yes I am and I don't see how this isn't hypocritical of you , A white guy can't say white power but A black women can give a Black power salute and it's fine with you, please help me to understand your thought process

The way I see it, both white and black racism are two real problems that need to be taken seriously.

However, when looking back historically - racism against white people is like a fart in space compared the suppression blacks have experienced. Hence my prioritising.

It might be possible that in the US today - an equally big (?) problem lies in friction between social/economic statuses rather than skin color. As a Swede, I am not really qualified for that discussion though.


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jstcrsn
post Feb 13 2016, 12:39 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Feb 13 2016, 09:08 AM) *
However, when looking back historically - racism against white people is like a fart in space compared the suppression blacks have experienced. Hence my prioritising.

It might be possible that in the US today - an equally big (?) problem lies in friction between social/economic statuses rather than skin color. As a Swede, I am not really qualified for that discussion though.

This comes across to me as , Bigotry is okay to use to get even. How is this to help cause equality, it just swings the pendulum the other way .

As ugly as this history is , a very few percentage actually came to the u.s./British north America http://www.inquisitr.com/1830533/black-his...id-they-all-go/
People forget that number of American soldiers that died to free the blacks and that the percentages of those that accept are still the same (if not better). So I get really tired of People blaming ( and holding everyone responsible) , rather for than the few that are.People also seem to forget many Black peolpe got rich selling there own country men.

with this kind of tepid response you are holding many responsible without any actual evidence

We are bombarded time and time again to not hold muslims accountable for the few radicals, so all I ask is you do the same . Don't hold the entire White man responsible for the few rich and power slave owners that were able to control the situation with their power

Bigotry is bigotry , even when you prioritize

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