2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Kemper Profiler Ethics
yoncopin
post Feb 23 2016, 07:13 PM
Post #21


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 541
Joined: 26-September 09
From: USA
Member No.: 7.667



Well s#*& my Bugera is supposed to be delivered today but I was reading more about it and it's a hybrid SS pre/tube power amp??? Everywhere said it was all tube, now I'm confused. The Vox I have is a solid-state modeller with the Valve Reactor tube power amp already. I'm not sure what to think now, that doesn't seem like it'll be any different and I should just send the shipment right back. I liked that it was 5w with the power scaling to 5/1/.1 watts, every other tube amp I found was going to be much too loud.

Edit:
Now my understanding is that the Bugera uses a ECC83 pre and a 12BH7 power tube with a solid state rectifier (not tube). That is ok with me as it's similar to the modern voicing of a Dual rectifier. I think all the clipping is all done in a tube, if so I'll keep it.

Can anyone confirm?

This post has been edited by yoncopin: Feb 23 2016, 07:28 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Feb 23 2016, 07:22 PM
Post #22


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.885
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



I think the point, as long winded as that guy makes it in 3 friggin videos, is that it is a pretty vile practice to 'buy' an amp, profile it and then return it for a full refund. IMO - not cool. How prevalent that actually is - I don't know.

For me, the bottom line is that "this is a ridiculous argument to be having at this point".
I'm not referring to analog v. digital or solid state. Both are great for different applications and different tastes.

When we model or profile an amp we're obviously going for a specific sound. Usually that 'sound' is connected to a player. *If an amp turns on in the forest and there's no one there to play it, does it make a sound?*
You're not that player. It won't sound the same. Maybe you 'think' it does - ? But it doesn't and you don't.
To quote Mick Ronson (RIP), "Play don't worry".

This post has been edited by klasaine: Feb 24 2016, 02:15 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mudbone
post Feb 27 2016, 02:05 AM
Post #23


Learning Apprentice Player
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.750
Joined: 6-May 10
From: Charlotte, NC (residence)/Boston, MA (home) USA
Member No.: 10.329



I think this issue has the potential to affect mainly the high gain amp market. Most high gain amps aren't practical for home use, and they also are hooked up to pretty much the same cab - a Marshall style 412 with Celestion Vintage 30s.

I don't think the Kemper will ever affect the medium to lower gain combo market. Simply because it cannot replicate the "mojo" of those amps. For example, in order to get THE Vox AC30 sound, you need to have amp circuit, the cab and the speakers. Plus the look of it sitting in your house can't be replicated.


I recently picked up a Fender Blues Junior Tweed Edition. There are many things about it that I like that cannot be replicated digitally. I'm a big fan of Spaghetti Westerns, especially the soundtracks, and this particular amp has so much of the mojo of those films, particularly my favorite one - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. The Tweed provides the 60's look - same decade the movie was released. The speaker is an Italian made Jensen - the movie was filmed by Italians. It was assembled in Mexico - Eli Walach plays a Mexican. And of course it's an American amp.... because 'Murica. When I plug a Fender into it and play the riff from the film... BOOM.... I'm transported to that time and place. A modeler, profiler etc could never do that.

Is it silly? Probably. But I don't give a shit. It's all fun, and that's all that matters.


That moment when the guitar makes it presence known, in all its glorious reverb...



--------------------


He who laughs last thinks slowest.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens


Gear:

Guitars: Uncle Rufus' Twanger Classic
Amps: Mississippi Boom Box
Mojo: Hammer of Odin and a pair of Ox gonads
Inspiration: Samuel Adams Boston Lager

Zero to Hero: 1,387/10,000

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nikeman64
post Mar 12 2016, 03:48 PM
Post #24


Experienced Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 296
Joined: 13-May 11
From: Belgium
Member No.: 12.818



I have an AxeFXII and a JVM 410 Marshall stack (with some cool analog pedals) and I adore both setups !!! I totaly agree that we must never stand against technological process. Amp modelling has revolutionised the music industry and it's great. The Axe is so versatile, easy to use and delivers awesome tone. It's definitely a pearl !!!!! If it breaks today, I will buy another one tomorow !!!!! But when I plug in my guitar in that beautiful marshall stack with my analog pedals , .... I don't know,... there's something magical happening, every time. If it breaks today,I will buy another one tomorrow. It's definitely also a pearl !!!!!

wink.gif


--------------------
Experienced Tone Seeker
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Mar 13 2016, 04:04 AM
Post #25


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.018
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



Usually, if your ears are "Gold" enough, you can tell the diff between the real deal and a good model if it's by itself. Usually in a mix it's all but impossible to make any real distinction IMHO. It's going to be a long term shift as things like this don't seem to happen overnight smile.gif And some folks may never accept it at all. Which is fine too smile.gif

QUOTE (yoncopin @ Feb 23 2016, 12:55 PM) *
I have to agree, the video is sort of rambling and rant-ish, but sparks discussion nonetheless. In the end I decided $1500-$2000 was too much for a modeller right now and got a Bugera G5 Infinium and a few DIY pedal kits (Rat, Tubescreamer). Which, in the context of this debate, have the same issues as the Kemper. The Bugera is a modified clone of a Blackstar, which is probably a modified clone of... The DIY kits are clearly clones of popular pedals with additional mods. In researching these purchases, I was amazed to find how similar these amp and pedal designs are to each other. There are really only a handful of solutions to achieving the desired effect of distortion/overdrive, etc... In the end, all modern gear was built on the fundamentals established long ago.

I did some A/B mic recordings of my Pod HD500X and my Vox Valvetronix and found I preferred the amp models of the Vox paired with the effects from the Pod. I'm going to make some more recording samples for comparison with the analog drive pedals and tube amp to see what the best setup is for sound quality and convenience for me. I'm really interested to compare the in-the-room sound of a analog pedal vs a few different digital models of the same thing. Digital vs analog is some kind of holy war, but I'm very excited to let my own ears decide.



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
yoncopin
post Mar 13 2016, 05:08 AM
Post #26


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 541
Joined: 26-September 09
From: USA
Member No.: 7.667



QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Mar 12 2016, 10:04 PM) *
Usually, if your ears are "Gold" enough, you can tell the diff between the real deal and a good model if it's by itself. Usually in a mix it's all but impossible to make any real distinction IMHO. It's going to be a long term shift as things like this don't seem to happen overnight smile.gif And some folks may never accept it at all. Which is fine too smile.gif


Well, the Bugera was returned the day after I received it. I couldn't tell any discernible difference between it and the Vox combo amp's modeling. I finished building my Rat clone (pic below) It's a bit rough on the finishing, but I learned a lot. The Tubescreamer is in progress now and I expect it will look a lot nicer, inside and out. In the end, it's the sound that counts and I'm really happy with that. I'm totally hooked and have some parts coming to start designing my own circuits and build a killer fuzz as a gift for my brother-in-law.

That said, here are my A/B Rat recordings. One is the Pod HD500X and the other is my analog clone pedal, both are using the same reamped DI track and using the same Pod JT45 amp/cab model. I didn't aim for a "good" sound necessarily but just tried to get them sounding as similar as possible. I could definitely dial them in to sound different, and prefer my pedal (maybe because I made it?), but it's really close to my ears. Between the pedal and amp comparison, it really shows me how much commentary is out there about very small differences. I think I'll just get back to making my music and other projects for the time being. I really had to hear it for myself though.

Can you tell which is the Pod HD500X and which is the RAT pedal?

Attached File  A.wav ( 5.87MB ) Number of downloads: 16

Attached File  B.wav ( 5.87MB ) Number of downloads: 21

Spoiler:
A = Pod HD500X, B = RAT Pedal

Attached Image


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Mar 14 2016, 12:30 AM
Post #27


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.018
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



See what I'm sayin smile.gif I have had similar experiences. If Isolate a bit of kit, I can hear a subtle difference between the real thing and a good copy. But in a mix, it's pretty much impossible. The good news is, this makes it a LOT easier for folks doing their thing at home to use software and kempers/etc. to get killer tones without having to go broke buying 4 marshall stacks and 10k worth of microphones to record them with. smile.gif


I dig your tones! Congrats on your DIY pedal construction as well! smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (yoncopin @ Mar 12 2016, 11:08 PM) *
Well, the Bugera was returned the day after I received it. I couldn't tell any discernible difference between it and the Vox combo amp's modeling. I finished building my Rat clone (pic below) It's a bit rough on the finishing, but I learned a lot. The Tubescreamer is in progress now and I expect it will look a lot nicer, inside and out. In the end, it's the sound that counts and I'm really happy with that. I'm totally hooked and have some parts coming to start designing my own circuits and build a killer fuzz as a gift for my brother-in-law.

That said, here are my A/B Rat recordings. One is the Pod HD500X and the other is my analog clone pedal, both are using the same reamped DI track and using the same Pod JT45 amp/cab model. I didn't aim for a "good" sound necessarily but just tried to get them sounding as similar as possible. I could definitely dial them in to sound different, and prefer my pedal (maybe because I made it?), but it's really close to my ears. Between the pedal and amp comparison, it really shows me how much commentary is out there about very small differences. I think I'll just get back to making my music and other projects for the time being. I really had to hear it for myself though.

Can you tell which is the Pod HD500X and which is the RAT pedal?

Attached File  A.wav ( 5.87MB ) Number of downloads: 16

Attached File  B.wav ( 5.87MB ) Number of downloads: 21

Spoiler:
A = Pod HD500X, B = RAT Pedal

Attached Image



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 20th September 2017 - 03:54 PM