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> How Do I Grade At Rec?
Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 20 2016, 01:39 PM
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Hello GMCers! I copy my criteria for grading at REC here to have it as reference:


I've been thinking on a new approach in order to decide the grade that I'll give to the takes. Kris send me some old grading guidelines that included this topics:

1, Rhythm placement: Overall ability to play in rhythm and keep a steady tempo. This aspect should take into consideration the groove factor of certain lessons such as topics involving shuffle or swing type of rhythm.

2. Cleanness: The cleanness factor evaluates the student's ability to play something with clarity and precision. This is indicative of the overall level of playing as well as the amount of practice of this particular lesson

3. Feel: The feel factor determines if the student shows comfort in the chosen musical piece. Several factors are included in the feel criteria such as rhythm placement, posture and overall lesson execution.

4. Posture: Posture determines if the student is holding the instrument correctly and shows comfort while playing. This criteria should of course take into account the difficulty of the lesson.

5. Sound: The sound factor will grade the student's tone and ability to play a piece with a similar type of sound. This section will not give advantage to students with more expensive gear, it is more of a general way to see if you can chose an appropriate tone to the lesson you're working on.

Each of these topics mean 2/10 of the total grade, and I'll include: 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5 and 2. The final grade will be the sum of everything. If I get a "x.5" I'll go to the closer low number. For example if the sum of everything is 5.5, my grade will be 5.

I'll do this internally, I won't publish this method and individual concepts grades every time I evaluate a take but I wanted to share with you my new approach.


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Phil66
post Apr 20 2016, 01:53 PM
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I think that's pretty much on the money. I was thinking recently that some new students haven't read the rules for REC.
I noticed a recent REC take recorded in the wrong key but still getting a pass. Maybe, somehow, when the first REC is submitted the student should have to agree that they have read the rules.
Nothing against the student at all as they are new and don't know the rules.
I do also think that people are getting a pass with lower standards than before. I was under the impression that 6 was the new 7, ie, it was going to be as difficult to get a 6 as it was to get a 7 with the old system, but the new system was going to use more of the points range.It seems that you can get a pass (6) playing at the same standard as before to get a 6 but it wouldn't pass.

I hope this makes sense and I'm not trying to offend anyone, or speak bad of anyone, it's just how I see it.

Cheers


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 20 2016, 02:01 PM
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Hi Phil,

yes, we have to reset or refresh criteria from time to time in order to keep the grading system useful. That's why I'm sharing here my approach. We have many new students, and we have some others that maybe missed the thread about grading so I thought that it is a good idea to have it pinned here.





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Phil66
post Apr 20 2016, 02:17 PM
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Maybe an idea, if possible, to have a note flash up when clicking the "submit my take" button saying something like;

"Have you read the rules of REC? click HERE if not". All guidelines must be adhered to in order to keep the system fair for everyone. Thank you for your cooperation smile.gif"

Or something like that


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nikeman64
post Apr 20 2016, 02:34 PM
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Hi Gab,

Looks great !!

The different criteria are well defined and I especially like the idea of 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2 because 0,1,2 would be too stiff.

Let's hope a lot of students find their way to the REC, as it is a FANTASTIC way to measure your level and progression as a student wink.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 20 2016, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Apr 20 2016, 10:17 AM) *
Maybe an idea, if possible, to have a note flash up when clicking the "submit my take" button saying something like;

"Have you read the rules of REC? click HERE if not". All guidelines must be adhered to in order to keep the system fair for everyone. Thank you for your cooperation smile.gif"

Or something like that



That's a good idea. However, all the info is shared at the top of the REC take, with description and links. It's normal that students react different to grading. There are some students that don't like us being "soft" while others feel bad with us being too "strict". Unfortunately for the first ones, we believe that being strict with grading and comments is the best way to help students to become better guitarists.


QUOTE (nikeman64 @ Apr 20 2016, 10:34 AM) *
Hi Gab,

Looks great !!

The different criteria are well defined and I especially like the idea of 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2 because 0,1,2 would be too stiff.

Let's hope a lot of students find their way to the REC, as it is a FANTASTIC way to measure your level and progression as a student wink.gif



Yeah, I think that 0,5 is enough detail for grading.





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Phil66
post Apr 20 2016, 03:04 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Apr 20 2016, 02:53 PM) *
That's a good idea. However, all the info is shared at the top of the REC take, with description and links. It's normal that students react different to grading. There are some students that don't like us being "soft" while others feel bad with us being too "strict". Unfortunately for the first ones, we believe that being strict with grading and comments is the best way to help students to become better guitarists.


Yeah, I know it's there but it's in the "more info" section, it's obviously being missed by some students wink.gif It's probably something that they spot in a lesson page "submit your take here", they rush over to the rec, look at some of the posts and, boom, they've posted one without even looking at the "small print".

I don't mind if instructors are hard or soft so long as they are consistent, at the moment it seems easier to get a 6 than it was a 7 but the new system was supposed to make the use of the full range of the rec scale more usable. I wouldn't now settle for a 6, I would be happy to move on to another lesson after a 7 or 8 to avoid "chasing rainbows" and perfecting my piece to get a 10.

I do understand that it is really tricky to please everyone but that isn't what it should be in REC zone. It should be; this is the system, this is how it is, it is fair and the same for everyone. It isn't too hard to pass or too easy to fail if you put the time in.

Thanks for your dedication to us all Gab, I'm sure I speak on behalf of everyone. Cheers


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tflava
post May 25 2016, 08:29 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Apr 20 2016, 02:04 PM) *
Yeah, I know it's there but it's in the "more info" section, it's obviously being missed by some students wink.gif It's probably something that they spot in a lesson page "submit your take here", they rush over to the rec, look at some of the posts and, boom, they've posted one without even looking at the "small print".

I don't mind if instructors are hard or soft so long as they are consistent, at the moment it seems easier to get a 6 than it was a 7 but the new system was supposed to make the use of the full range of the rec scale more usable. I wouldn't now settle for a 6, I would be happy to move on to another lesson after a 7 or 8 to avoid "chasing rainbows" and perfecting my piece to get a 10.

I do understand that it is really tricky to please everyone but that isn't what it should be in REC zone. It should be; this is the system, this is how it is, it is fair and the same for everyone. It isn't too hard to pass or too easy to fail if you put the time in.

Thanks for your dedication to us all Gab, I'm sure I speak on behalf of everyone. Cheers



I dont agree with that Phil. I'm a student who really loves and enjoy to play and put all my effort in. But i notice by myself if i try real hard multple times but dont pass that i loss my motivation. I think if you pass a rec you keep motivated and want to learn more. I think if you fail a lot you kan loose motivation and think that youre playing is not good and youre a bad guitar player. Then you dont want to praticie that much as before.

I think that you have 2 sort of players.
1) Players who wants to play everything perfect and have the patience for it,and learn a lot this way.
2) Players who play a lot of different things, not perfect, but everytime they play a new lesson they learn new things and bring that also into the new lessons.

I'm a player nmr 2.

This is not to discuss with you Phil but just to show my opinion and show the other side of the REC passing grade system smile.gif

Greetz Tim
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Tom51
post May 25 2016, 09:45 AM
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QUOTE (tflava @ May 25 2016, 07:29 AM) *
I dont agree with that Phil. I'm a student who really loves and enjoy to play and put all my effort in. But i notice by myself if i try real hard multple times but dont pass that i loss my motivation. I think if you pass a rec you keep motivated and want to learn more. I think if you fail a lot you kan loose motivation and think that youre playing is not good and youre a bad guitar player. Then you dont want to praticie that much as before.

I think that you have 2 sort of players.
1) Players who wants to play everything perfect and have the patience for it,and learn a lot this way.
2) Players who play a lot of different things, not perfect, but everytime they play a new lesson they learn new things and bring that also into the new lessons.

I'm a player nmr 2.

This is not to discuss with you Phil but just to show my opinion and show the other side of the REC passing grade system smile.gif

Greetz Tim


Well said Tim! I fully agree with you and its the same with me!

What GMC is for? It's all about to make people enjoy guitar playing! I am not here to earn a degree as professional musician. Thereofere keeping motivation of students high is MOST important. It would be very bad if guitar playing becomes a source of permanent frustration.

Yes, its hard to keep the banlance between justified criticism and motivation at REC right.
But we cannot all run 100m under 10s or play guitar like Steve Stevens no matter how hard we train. :-)

Tom


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Phil66
post May 25 2016, 12:39 PM
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QUOTE (Tom51 @ May 25 2016, 09:45 AM) *
Well said Tim! I fully agree with you and its the same with me!

What GMC is for? It's all about to make people enjoy guitar playing! I am not here to earn a degree as professional musician. Thereofere keeping motivation of students high is MOST important. It would be very bad if guitar playing becomes a source of permanent frustration.

Yes, its hard to keep the banlance between justified criticism and motivation at REC right.
But we cannot all run 100m under 10s or play guitar like Steve Stevens no matter how hard we train. :-)

Tom


In a way I kind of agree with you both Tom and Tim, it can be disillusioning not passes but we can also get motivation working a lesson from lets say a grade three, then next time a grade four then five etc, I would class them as "mini passes" and that would also motivate me.
What I didn't like with the old system was you could be on a six for three submissions or more of the same lesson and each time it would be something different preventing a pass, this used to really de-motivate me, I used to think "What do I have to do to pass this lesson?" BUT, I think if I had been given a 3 to start with, then gradually worked up to a pass I would not have minded one bit because I would be able to see progress in my points.

Darius explains it well here, where they think they were going wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuYJUVNfo-8#t=68


And HERE is the full thread.

Apologies if you have already seen the thread and the video wink.gif

Cheers dudes smile.gif

This post has been edited by Phil66: May 25 2016, 07:53 PM


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MisterM
post May 27 2016, 03:25 PM
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Hi Gab,

Cool idea.

I see some guitarist - a lot of recording with not enough work.
I think that this section should be used when the work is close to the lesson.

Sometimes I am surprised: you give 5/10 6/10 7/10 8/10...
Your criteria are hard and other times too kind.

Sometimes I feels me lost in core instructors's comments.


I don't understand the Darius video : Next time subtitle possible ? mad.gif tongue.gif

This post has been edited by MisterM: May 27 2016, 03:28 PM


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AK Rich
post May 27 2016, 06:29 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Apr 20 2016, 04:53 AM) *
I think that's pretty much on the money. I was thinking recently that some new students haven't read the rules for REC.
I noticed a recent REC take recorded in the wrong key but still getting a pass. Maybe, somehow, when the first REC is submitted the student should have to agree that they have read the rules.
Nothing against the student at all as they are new and don't know the rules.
I do also think that people are getting a pass with lower standards than before. I was under the impression that 6 was the new 7, ie, it was going to be as difficult to get a 6 as it was to get a 7 with the old system, but the new system was going to use more of the points range.It seems that you can get a pass (6) playing at the same standard as before to get a 6 but it wouldn't pass.

I hope this makes sense and I'm not trying to offend anyone, or speak bad of anyone, it's just how I see it.

Cheers


I don't see how playing a REC lesson in a different key should be a disqualifier. Say I pick out a REC lesson to play and I decide that the best
suited guitar I have to use in order to tone match is tuned, intonated and trem set to Eb. I record the REC lesson playing in the same position as the original only
it ends up being in a key that is a half step flatter than the original. Doing this wouldn't make the lesson any easier to play so what's the difference?
What if that guitar tuned, intonated and trem set to Eb was the only guitar I had? Should I be discouraged from taking part in the REC program because of this?
Transposing songs to different keys by playing them in different positions or by detuning is common practice when playing cover tunes in a
band to make it easier on the vocalist and in my opinion should not be discouraged.

This post has been edited by AK Rich: May 27 2016, 07:13 PM
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Phil66
post May 27 2016, 08:01 PM
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Fair comment Rich,
I see where you're coming from and I guess I was wrong, I'm just a stickler for things being as the sample exercise when it comes to being judged. One of the comments on the track I mentioned said " unfortunately dissonances between guitar and backing track sound really bad and makes us not able to correctly judge the pitch for example. You have a little gift from me in your inbox (backing track in A). Please redo the take if possible"

Cheers dude smile.gif


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AK Rich
post May 27 2016, 09:22 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 27 2016, 11:01 AM) *
Fair comment Rich,
I see where you're coming from and I guess I was wrong, I'm just a stickler for things being as the sample exercise when it comes to being judged. One of the comments on the track I mentioned said " unfortunately dissonances between guitar and backing track sound really bad and makes us not able to correctly judge the pitch for example. You have a little gift from me in your inbox (backing track in A). Please redo the take if possible"

Cheers dude smile.gif


Well, if the lesson was played in a different key than the backing, I can see where that would be a problem.
But if it was a situation like I described, I think the instructors here are more than qualified to grade a REC take played in a different key.

Cheers back at ya! smile.gif

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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 28 2016, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ May 27 2016, 05:22 PM) *
Well, if the lesson was played in a different key than the backing, I can see where that would be a problem.
But if it was a situation like I described, I think the instructors here are more than qualified to grade a REC take played in a different key.

Cheers back at ya! smile.gif



Sure, if the backing and guitar are on the same key, we can judge the take.



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