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> Irrational Fear Of Terrorists?
fkalich
post Jun 17 2016, 01:37 AM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 16 2016, 07:30 PM) *
I saw that as well and decided not to post it - good read though.


Todd - I understand the U.S. led invasion of the middle east is terrible - we shouldn't be there. But that can not be classified as a "Christian" war.

As fars as the crusades, here's some history for you...


No, that is not history, that is called drivel you find on Internet that entertains people, but actually makes them more stupid after watching it.

If you want to learn some serious history about the period, and not have to work hard (just 18 hours of lectures), get a copy of this, maybe your library has it.

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/era...e-crusades.html
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Spock
post Jun 17 2016, 01:40 AM
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You really should look into the Islamic onslaught of the middle east, Africa and Europe - I don't think it took much propaganda when the Crusaders had a common enemy if they cherished their homeland. As the videos above explain.
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jstcrsn
post Jun 17 2016, 01:41 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 17 2016, 01:31 AM) *
and the same thing I can read today in the election news where Trump spoon feeds you whatever you will lap up.

and I can fully agree with you , but for some reason people think Bernie or Hillary are not doing the same thing
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Spock
post Jun 17 2016, 02:07 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 16 2016, 08:37 PM) *
No, that is not history, that is called drivel you find on Internet that entertains people, but actually makes them more stupid after watching it.

If you want to learn some serious history about the period, and not have to work hard (just 18 hours of lectures), get a copy of this, maybe your library has it.

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/era...e-crusades.html



The course does look interesting and sure there was much politics and dogmas going on in 200 years. But can it be denied that Islam was conquering the entire region and pushing north and the Crusaders attempted to fight against that and regain Jerusalem. Or was that just stupid dribble too?

I also find it amusing you were able to make your post seconds after I posted the videos. Speed watcher.

Just so I understand:

- Islam is peaceful - nothing to be concerned about
- Killers in the name of Islam are just lone crazed killers with no real affiliation
- Christians are biased evil bigots that pose a far greater threat to the Earth
- People don't kill people - guns kill people, unless you're a conservative
- Trump is nothing but empty racist propaganda that stupid people eat up with glee
- Orlando should be blamed on the Christian right and lack of gun control.
- Assault weapons should be banned from all law abiding citizens - in order to keep them from the hands of criminals.
- There is no reason to take Islamic immigration in Europe and see it as anything other than peaceful assimilation.
- We should allow all people into our nation because we should build bridges and not walls.


This post has been edited by Spock: Jun 17 2016, 01:55 AM
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fkalich
post Jun 17 2016, 02:55 AM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 16 2016, 07:53 PM) *
The course does look interesting and sure there was much politics and dogmas going on in 200 years. But can it be denied that Islam was conquering the entire region and pushing north and the Crusaders attempted to fight against that and regain Jerusalem. Or was that just stupid dribble too?

I also find it amusing you were able to make your post seconds after I posted the videos. Speed watcher.


Yes, things were much more complicated than that. I can't even answer that question. That is just not how the world worked, things were not that clear cut, not at all. I mean for one thing, loyalties shifted all over the place. Often Christians allied with some Muslims. And there were different groups of Muslims, often opposed to each other. Often Christians fought against Christians, as was the case in the 4th crusade and to a lessor extent in some of the others. Yes there was a strong movement to take Jerusalem, but there were other objectives, quite a number of them. At at a point, in some ways it quit being a religious motivation per see, it became just an establishment of a kingdom and the maintenance of it. There were three Kingdoms establish, I mean a lot went on, it was all very complicated.

Regarding the video, I disregarded it based on the the presenter. He gave no credentials that meant anything, and based on his youtube page he is clearly an ideologue. I don't waste my time with such people, regardless of their political orientation, time is short, and I only read the best. As I mentioned earlier, I will listen to Newt Gingrich, even though I don't agree with him much. But he has a Ph.D and taught History at a University. But I don't waste my time with youtube or TV crap. One thing you can say about the really good sources, the definitive and qualified sources, they never make it clear what their political orientation is. You may suspect what it is, but they are careful to avoid expressions of their personal political sentiments. That is just proper behavior for a serious historical author. For the most part the best Historians are academic. There are exceptions, some journalists are good, such as Sir Max Hastings, and Rick Atkinson. And some others, but most are academic. The thing about academics, there are subject to peer review, so they have to be careful about what they say, that someone can't shoot it to holes.

One more thing, and I am out of here. About guns, I have one. For defense, a S&W .357 magnum revolver. But why in the hell guys needs all those guys, semi automatics and automatics, go figure. It is just bizarre to me. I mean I have Guitars and Amps, and speaker cabinets, I get obsessed with those, but the obsession with guns, go figure. And also, making a game out of shooting animals. That I look down on. If you really want to hunt for some food, fine. But to take pleasure in making a game out of killing an animal, that to me in the 21st century is just perverse, time for humanity to grow up and have some respect for other life forms.

Regarding Trump. Put it this way, if I had most of you in a room, I would just start quizzing you on your knowledge of human history, world and American. That is the basis of my opinions. In fact, I get TV out of my house 10 years ago, the more you watch the stupider you get. I read books. If I asked you, name all 44 presidencies, could you do it? And I'll bet Trump could not either. Why do I know who they are? Because I am reasonably fluent in American history, if you are that, well you know about all the presidencies.

And I know this. While I did not like Cruz, at least he was qualified. I might have even voted for Kasich, he is a good man. But this Trump is a clown act, I know American history pretty well. I know what were the successes and the failures. Hell, even Warren G. Harding, a ridiculous compromise candidate who knew he was out of his league, was more qualified that Trump. You may not like the Democrats. But I warn you, if Trump is president, we are in serious danger, that is way way too much power to be in the hands of someone like that. I don't think he will win, I think most Americans will understand this, that regardless of your political orientation, this man is just a danger for the world. If we get in a shooting incident with China (very possible), how would he handle it? That should scare you, if you understand the Chinese culture, and military, you can only push them so far, there is a way to deal with them in a tough situation, and I don't think Trump is the man you want calling the shots in such a scenario. I am old enough to remember the Cuban missile crisis. We came close to oblivion. My father was a Colonel in the Air Force reserve, he was scheduled to go one night, to replace someone they assumed was dead as soon as things started. If someone other than Kennedy was president, like Nixon, god knows. That is just to much power in the hands of someone like Trump. And considering the way he behaves, one has to consider the possibility that it is an not just an act, that in fact he is truly unbalanced. Has any political leader/candidate ever behaved in the fashion he does? He is about 70 years old you know, it gets more likely the older you get, that a person can a number of cords short of a full load. Even most of the Republican leadership understands that. The rest of the world certainly does. Maybe consider the possibility that they are right, and however much you might hate the thought of Hillary Clinton being the boss, at least we can be pretty confident that we will survive through a Clinton presidency.

Sorry, you had a chance, you had someone like Kasich, who I think would have won. And who would have been a good president, and given you most of what you wanted.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Jun 17 2016, 03:05 AM
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Spock
post Jun 17 2016, 09:36 AM
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I appreciate your reply fkalich and you brought up many valuable points. Some of those points play right into my position however. The first being about the Crusades. You can't deny that Islam was on it's way to conquer Europe as it had the middle east and northern Africa. And the fact that factions of crusaders fought side by side with Muslims sort of puts a damper on the idea of it being being a totally Christian slaughter machine but more based on political ideology using the old "the enemy of my enemy is my ally" idea.

As of the 44 Presidents - you're right, at this point there is no way I could do it - however I once could it was part of my political science class in 10th grade. I could name them and their party affiliation in order, it was like memorizing multiplication tables in 3rd grade. But after all these years - that ability has gone.

I commend you on ditching the TV. I've found that MSM can not be trusted but I just can't give up Game of Thrones. People want to bash Fox News but tend to overlook the other major brands lean unfairly to the left, so I receive 99% of my news from the internet - in particular The Drudge Report.

As far as dangerous presidents, I do remember that your exact fears concerning Trump were also leveled against Reagan. People railed about him being the one to start WW3. I even remember some Christian wahoo saying "Ronald Wilson Reagan - 666". Reagan turned out to be the best President since Kennedy and I believe Trump can be that man now.

What I did like about Cruz was his tax plan - which I support more than Trump's. I've always been for a flat / fair tax, but I feel border security and our relations with Russia are more important than that right now. Especially with the immigration crisis the world leaders seem to be allowing to happen at the peril of their countries culture and citizen. It's seems too planned and that is another reason why Trump is so appealing - he is not a politician. He is outside the loop.

I just don't see how you could think Kasich would have had a chance against Hillary. He may be a good person but he doesn't have the brand recognition that Hillary does. And he is not as mean and underhanded, plus I see him as just being another RINO like most the other Republicans. A vote for Trump is not a vote for the Republicans but a vote against the establishment.

For gawd sake look at Hillary - look at her track record, her agendas and the trail of corruption for years. She is the last person we need as President. I'd rather have Sanders over here and he's a died in the wool socialist.

And I like Trump's brazen attitude. It's going to take someone with balls like that to unfuck this country - status quo would have our federal government being drug by the nose by NATO. I've always felt the U.S. has spent way too much money on our overseas agendas and that money could be used for domestic social policies as opposed to surrounding Russia with an arsenal of missiles under the ridiculous pretense that it's to ward off an Iranian attack. It would be like Russia putting missiles in Cuba and Mexico to protect them from Venezuela - ridiculous.

As far as gun rights, an armed populace is not armed for killing animals for fun, they are armed for personal protection and from a rogue government. The last thing an invading nation or a rogue government want is an armed populace.



So we have differing opinions - that's just the way the world turns. I hope you have a fulfilling and fruitful life. And I hope you wish me the same if Hillary wins as I move to Patagonia and open a fish hatchery.

This post has been edited by Spock: Jun 17 2016, 09:40 AM
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 17 2016, 03:23 PM
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JSTCRSN: before we get too long winded in our back and forth here, which I fear has already happened, let me just sum up what I"m suggesting overall smile.gif P.S. The CNN link you shared is about law that is being proposed. Here is a quote from your link smile.gif If the democratic bill passes, THEN we will get rid of the loopholes.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/10/politics/bac...iner/index.html

AKRICH: (from crsns cnn link, citing 20% of all sales being private) "The use of the NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System) however is not required for private sales of firearms, which make up about 20% of all firearm transactions. A Democrat-backed bill being discussed in Congress closes this loophole (the gunshow loophole), requiring background checks for all gun transactions, even private ones. This would extend background checks to purchases made at gun shows and on the internet."

1.)I'm for not allowing anyone on a NO FLY LIST to buy a weapon until they get off the list, and of course providing a legal way for them to challenge the list. Just seems pragmatic IMHO.

2.)I'm for requiring the exact same procedures that are required in gun shops, to be required at Gun Shows AND in person to person sales. Again, just seems pragmatic to me.

I"m aware of all of the arguments against these two ideas. No need to go through them again. Not everyone can agree that these two things are needed. It's my suggestion that these are needed. Thus why I would support this legislation. Simple as that smile.gif

SPOCK:
The mass immigration is more a European problem right now. It may spread to our shores as well in time. I sill maintain the only way to make real progress is through integration of folks coming here. We can't stop them IMHO unless we shoot them all at the border. Giving young, angry, war ravaged, men a second chance in life, indeed to have a life worth living, is IMHO our only long term solution.

That about covers it for me smile.gif Thanks for the conversation guys, I"m heading back to guitar land and you guys may have the last word.

Practice!
Todd
Todd


QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 16 2016, 04:22 PM) *


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 17 2016, 03:39 PM


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jstcrsn
post Jun 17 2016, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 17 2016, 03:23 PM) *
JSTCRSN: before we get too long winded in our back and forth here, which I fear has already happened, let me just sum up what I"m suggesting overall smile.gif
Todd
Todd


I am trying to figure out if I missread it or you did
the head line :how backround checks work : as in something that is in place , not , how would they work.
but the quote you mentioned was in regards to the a fore mentioned private sales

a few quotes :
Here's how the current system works:
Once you have decided to purchase a gun from a retail outlet -- it could be a local gun shop or national chain such as Bass Pro Shops, Cabelas or Walmart -- the store enters your name and information into the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, via a toll-free number or the Internet, to check the eligibility of the buyer.
The check usually takes a few minutes to complete.
The NICS system is linked to several databases managed by the FBI, including the National Crime Information Center, and runs an individual's name through federal and state criminal records.
CNN Poll: Background checks popular, worrisome
Individuals can also be added to the NICS index outside of potential gun sales, on the recommendation of psychiatrists, mental health institutions and family members.

The check usually takes a few minutes to complete.
The NICS system is linked to several databases managed by the FBI, including the National Crime Information Center, and runs an individual's name through federal and state criminal records.
CNN Poll: Background checks popular, worrisome
Individuals can also be added to the NICS index outside of potential gun sales, on the recommendation of psychiatrists, mental health institutions and family members.
Under the current NICS system, buyers may be denied the purchase of a firearm for reasons such as being indicted or convicted of a felony, admitting to being addicted to a controlled substances, having been dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces, being subject to a restraining order, as well as other regulations._________Since its implementation in 1998_______, 2.1 million background checks have been denied out of 118 million requests, or almost 2%.

I find it funny that you told Rich it was forty percent and you use this cnn pole to now say 20 percent and you have even agreed that cnn might biased ,but 20 is way less than the forty you so strongly stood by in earlier posts , which number and post shuld we counter

and more on the border


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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 17 2016, 08:39 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 16 2016, 08:51 PM) *
More violence from Palastine? GDP per capita in Palestine averaged 1309.66 USD from 1994 until 2013, reaching an all time high of 1653 USD in 2012 and a record low of 879.52 USD in 2002. You try living on an income like that. Surprise surprise that some young men pick up guns rather than resigning themselves to the life of living in a slum in abject poverty. How about Afganistan? Taken as a whole, life expectancy for Afghans is still just 48 years, and the average annual national income per capita is about $410. You thought living on about $1,500 a year was tough, try it on $410 a year. Let's look at the Sudan. $960 a year average income, compared to Aganistan, they live in style. How about Syria? $1,200 a year, now that is big money, what are those people raising hell for? If they can't get by on almost $4 a day to pay their living expenses, well what can you say?

Radical religion just becomes an umbrella that these desperate people unify themselves under, it is symbolic, but it is not the primary cause of conflicts. Actually in my experience, as religions go, the one where I have observed the most intolerance is certainly among those calling themselves Christian.


Great post. I def think this is part of the root cause that must be adressed to stop terrorism. Terrorism is just the tip of an iceberg - and it's naive to think chopping the top off will help fix the real problem.

Unless we make sure skilled diplomats are elected as leaders we're probably screwed. We need leaders that understand how the world functions, not just someone who can score home ground points by telling people what they want to hear.

The only way people will vote for these kinds of leaders is if the worlds' population itself gets smarter and more insightful. So let's keep talking about this, great thread! smile.gif




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jstcrsn
post Jun 17 2016, 10:10 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 17 2016, 08:39 PM) *
not just someone who can score home ground points by telling people what they want to hear.


People need to first realize ALL politicians on every side do this, you just want to hear something different than I do
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Arpeggio
post Jun 17 2016, 11:30 PM
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More US soldiers die from suicide outside the combat zone.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/...pidemic-veteran
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/csp/mediapool...555&fid=181

US education system is poor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUmcjbSHYq0 They want SOLDIERS.....not thinkers / informed voters.

US / Allies fund ISIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqNwUxjdsAA

US has no gold, Libya had loads and wanted to start trading oil in gold rather than US dollars.

Standard Oil (US) sold aviation fuel to the Lufftwaffe https://libcom.org/library/allied-multinati...any-world-war-2

Ex US president Eisenhower's parting speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gahL5j4ack

etc.




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Spock
post Jun 18 2016, 02:17 AM
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QUOTE (Arpeggio @ Jun 17 2016, 06:30 PM) *
More US soldiers die from suicide outside the combat zone.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/...pidemic-veteran
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/csp/mediapool...555&fid=181

US education system is poor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUmcjbSHYq0 They want SOLDIERS.....not thinkers / informed voters.

US / Allies fund ISIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqNwUxjdsAA

US has no gold, Libya had loads and wanted to start trading oil in gold rather than US dollars.

Standard Oil (US) sold aviation fuel to the Lufftwaffe https://libcom.org/library/allied-multinati...any-world-war-2

Ex US president Eisenhower's parting speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gahL5j4ack

etc.


That is why I'm voting for Trump.
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jstcrsn
post Jun 18 2016, 03:41 AM
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should this be irrational fear of voters like this guy
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Spock
post Jun 18 2016, 08:19 AM
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Spock
post Jun 18 2016, 09:34 AM
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Muslims are 'not like us' and we should just accept they will never integrate, says former racial equalities chief Trevor Phillips

Man who coined the term "Islamophobia" admits he was wrong.

Muslim communities are not like others in Britain and the country should accept they will never integrate, the former head of the equalities watchdog has claimed.

Trevor Phillips, the former chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, said it was disrespectful to assume that Muslim communities would change.

He told a meeting at the Policy Exchange think tank in Westminster on Monday that Muslims ‘see the world differently from the rest of us’.

According to The Times, he said: ‘Continuously pretending that a group is somehow eventually going to become like the rest of us is perhaps the deepest form of disrespect.

‘Because what you are essentially saying is the fact that they behave in a different way, some of which we may not like, is because they haven’t yet seen the light. It may be that they see the world differently to the rest of us.’

Mr Phillips added that people of certain backgrounds in the UK are not going to change their views ‘simply because we are constantly telling them that basically they should be like us’.

The Muslim Council of Britain has insisted that members of the religion are compatible with UK life, and believes that the idea of demanding change from Muslims has promoted discrimination.

A spokesman for the organisation told The Times: ‘It assumes that Muslims are not equal, and not civilised enough to be part and parcel of British society, which they most certainly are.’

The Prime Minister has previously made clear that integration failures have allowed extremist ideas to gain traction – resulting in around 700 British Muslims travelling to Syria to join Islamic State.

Counter-terror police say about half are thought to have returned and could pose a threat.

And last week David Cameron launched a new drive to counter extremism by calling on more Muslim women to learn English in the hope that they will turn into more powerful moderating forces.

Mr Phillips, 62, who is known for his outspoken views, hit the headlines last March when he claimed Britain was silencing debate on race issues by ‘intimidating’ those who dare to ask questions.

In a devastating critique of a culture of misguided political correctness, he claimed far too many people felt unable to speak their minds because they feared being branded racist.

Mr Phillips said people would have to become ‘more ready to offend each other’ as the price of free speech, and attacked the ‘racket’ of multiculturalism which took root under Tony Blair’s government.

Muslims, who first arrived in Britain about three centuries ago as sailors working for the East India Company, had a UK population of 2.7million in 2011 - dramatically up from 1.6million in 2001.


Source

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jstcrsn
post Jun 18 2016, 10:45 AM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 18 2016, 08:19 AM) *

we might have to check with the left and ask them if this is an acceptable source , haven't you learned anything by now , sheesh
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Spock
post Jun 18 2016, 10:55 AM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 18 2016, 05:45 AM) *
we might have to check with the left and ask them if this is an acceptable source , haven't you learned anything by now , sheesh




LOL! I took that into account when posting but realized that facts are irrelevant anyway regardless of source.

For instance they still pound the drum that David Duke supports Trump so that affiliates him with the KKK, but neglect to mention that Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan also supports Trump so by the same logic would that not affiliate Trump to the Nation of Islam and nullify the whole "racist" tag?

Nah.



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jstcrsn
post Jun 18 2016, 12:03 PM
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for a laugh


this is our "non-biased" media people shooting a gun
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Spock
post Jun 18 2016, 02:18 PM
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More tolerance from "The Religion of Peace". We should just hug them until they love us back...


Radiohead's live from A Moon Shaped Pool event in Istanbul is attacked

A group of radical Islamists attacked a listening party in Istanbul where Radiohead was holding a listening party for fans in support of their new album.

The men reportedly stormed the record store, Velvet Indieground, in Istanbul, Turkey, and used pipes to violently beat fans running away from the venue for drinking alcohol during the holy month of Ramadan.

“Our hearts go out to those attacked tonight at Velvet IndieGround in Istanbul,” Radiohead said in a statement. “We hope that someday we will be able to look back on such acts of violent intolerance as things of the ancient past. For now, we can only offer our fans in Istanbul our love and support.”

It’s unknown how many people were injured in the uproar or the severity of their injuries.

One of the store’s owners allegedly posted about the encounter on Reddit, saying, “I am the person that’s speaking in that video. I am the owner of that periscope account. They were determined to kill us. We were beaten by more than 20 men with pipes in their hands, beer bottles were broken on our heads. I don’t even know how we made it out. I will share the details later guys, just hoping that no one will die.”

The event was part of a global listening party in support of Radiohead’s new album, “A Moon Shaped Pool,” and included specially curated playlists, games, and limited-edition vinyls.

Video of the attack can be seen below:




Source
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jstcrsn
post Jun 18 2016, 02:41 PM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 18 2016, 02:18 PM) *
More tolerance from "The Religion of Peace". We should just hug them until they love us back...


Radiohead's live from A Moon Shaped Pool event in Istanbul is attacked

A group of radical Islamists attacked a listening party in Istanbul where Radiohead was holding a listening party for fans in support of their new album.

The men reportedly stormed the record store, Velvet Indieground, in Istanbul, Turkey, and used pipes to violently beat fans running away from the venue for drinking alcohol during the holy month of Ramadan.

“Our hearts go out to those attacked tonight at Velvet IndieGround in Istanbul,” Radiohead said in a statement. “We hope that someday we will be able to look back on such acts of violent intolerance as things of the ancient past. For now, we can only offer our fans in Istanbul our love and support.”

It’s unknown how many people were injured in the uproar or the severity of their injuries.

One of the store’s owners allegedly posted about the encounter on Reddit, saying, “I am the person that’s speaking in that video. I am the owner of that periscope account. They were determined to kill us. We were beaten by more than 20 men with pipes in their hands, beer bottles were broken on our heads. I don’t even know how we made it out. I will share the details later guys, just hoping that no one will die.”

The event was part of a global listening party in support of Radiohead’s new album, “A Moon Shaped Pool,” and included specially curated playlists, games, and limited-edition vinyls.

Video of the attack can be seen below:




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But we do not know if they are getting a fare wage or have even been assimilated into the culture ?
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