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> Irrational Fear Of Terrorists?
Spock
post Jun 14 2016, 07:10 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Jun 14 2016, 11:29 AM) *
*On a lighter note, my mom and dad are celebrating their 60th wedding anniversary this year and the whole family is doing a week long Alaska cruise.



Oh man I am JEALOUS!!! An Alaskan cruise is my wife's and my dream vacation - living in the southeast lower 48, we'll have to take at least 3 weeks off work to pull that off though.

Hope you have a blast!
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klasaine
post Jun 14 2016, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 14 2016, 11:10 AM) *
Oh man I am JEALOUS!!! An Alaskan cruise is my wife's and my dream vacation - living in the southeast lower 48, we'll have to take at least 3 weeks off work to pull that off though.

Hope you have a blast!


Thanks!
We've been to Alaska before but not on the cruise. It is truly one of the most beautiful and unique places on the planet.


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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 14 2016, 08:08 PM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 14 2016, 12:24 PM) *
There will always be sympathizers which are considered "home grown" terrorists. But the reason to stop the mass immigration (better termed invasion) is because it's a clash of cultures. The people being allowed into your country as well as other European countries and the U.S. are from a culture that hates western values.


I really wish your analysis were true! It would be so much easier if we could dismiss the problem as a bunch of lunatics who hate us.

However I am afraid the terrorists you describe started out as kids just like you and me, but then something went horribly wrong.

If we are looking for a long term solution - not just one that brings us 10 years of relative tranquility until 'the next' thing comes - then we must start understing who these people are and why they became what they are today. Know your enemies for real!

Therein lies the long term solution. And I am primarily interested in the long term solution, because I have two small kids and I want them to grow up in a better world.


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fkalich
post Jun 14 2016, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 14 2016, 11:27 AM) *
just like the left in America . Say they are inclusive and they except all Ideas ( unless it might contradict theirs ) and when one does they resort to classifying them as dumber than a brick wall . Nice

I don't remember anyone on the so called conservative side calling names . So who really is the more accepting group ?


I only said "slightly dumber that a brick wall"

I have always had a problem with Newt Gingrich. I disagree with most things he says, but the problem is that I know him to be very well read, well educated. In fact John Ferling, the author of one of my favorite books in American history,"The Ascent of George Washington" once taught at the same college that Newt taught at, and in an interview really did not say anything bad about him.

However Newt Gingrich is the only person I have come across among active Trump supporters, where this problem has come up for me.

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 14 2016, 02:08 PM) *
I really wish your analysis were true! It would be so much easier if we could dismiss the problem as a bunch of lunatics who hate us.

However I am afraid the terrorists you describe started out as kids just like you and me, but then something went horribly wrong.

If we are looking for a long term solution - not just one that brings us 10 years of relative tranquility until 'the next' thing comes - then we must start understing who these people are and why they became what they are today. Know your enemies for real!

Therein lies the long term solution. And I am primarily interested in the long term solution, because I have two small kids and I want them to grow up in a better world.


You can look for causes here and there, religion, culture, whatever. But in the final analysis if everyone in the world at least had indoor plumbing, the world would be a much more peaceful place.

So long as 1% of the world population owns 50% of the world's assets, a lot of the other 7 billion are going to be very poor, and increasingly desperate. Desperate people are willing to buy into the song and dance of whoever emerges convincing them that they are going to change things. And damage has been done by Trump. If they really hate us enough, oh yes they will get someone in here, they will go though Canada, or Denmark, or Fiji, or wherever. All those statements did was make them hate us more, and serve as recruiting bulletin board material for the "bad guys".
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Spock
post Jun 14 2016, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Jun 14 2016, 03:08 PM) *
I really wish your analysis were true! It would be so much easier if we could dismiss the problem as a bunch of lunatics who hate us.

However I am afraid the terrorists you describe started out as kids just like you and me, but then something went horribly wrong.

If we are looking for a long term solution - not just one that brings us 10 years of relative tranquility until 'the next' thing comes - then we must start understing who these people are and why they became what they are today. Know your enemies for real!

Therein lies the long term solution. And I am primarily interested in the long term solution, because I have two small kids and I want them to grow up in a better world.



I'm afraid you may be mistaken. The culture I was brought up in, and I would imagine yours as well, is to be friendly and respectful. The culture I am talking about teach their children at an early age to slaughter people. This is easily found all over the net. They are taught to hate jews mostly.

But simply look into what a theocracy stands for as compared to western values. These countries condone death sentences to homosexuals, no rights for women, if a woman is raped she can be sentenced to death - the list goes on and on. It boils down to Sharia law. This is not hate speech - these are cold hard facts and I would be more than happy to make post after post after post to prove this - but it would be so much easier if people would just look into it themselves.

I am interested in a long term solution as well - and the only solution I see would be a major reformation of Islam. The ultimate goal of which is a global caliphate. It was even said by Gaddafi that Islam would conquer Europe and not have to fire a single shot, it would be done through immigration. Look at the demographic trends of Italy and France.

QUOTE
We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe—without swords, without guns, without conquest—will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.


I agree with you though - we must understand who these people are - and I want your children and my family to grow old in a better world. And unless you are happy with your country turning into something akin to the middle east and be a slave to Islamic Sharia Law then you should understand what is happening.

And before anyone feels like this is a racist post - remember, Islam is not a race, it is an ideology.







This post has been edited by Spock: Jun 14 2016, 09:06 PM
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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 14 2016, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 14 2016, 09:59 PM) *
I'm afraid you may be mistaken. The culture I was brought up in, and I would imagine yours as well, is to be friendly and respectful. The culture I am talking about teach their children at an early age to slaughter people. This is easily found all over the net. They are taught to hate jews mostly.


I did not know this. And I have grown up all over the world, including two years in Jerusalem where I made both Israeli and Palestinian friends (so Jews, Christians and Muslims all together).

What are your sources? Have you made an effort to get to know people from all around the world? Have you met the beasts you are talking about?

QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 14 2016, 09:44 PM) *
You can look for causes here and there, religion, culture, whatever. But in the final analysis if everyone in the world at least had indoor plumbing, the world would be a much more peaceful place.

So long as 1% of the world population owns 50% of the world's assets, a lot of the other 7 billion are going to be very poor, and increasingly desperate. Desperate people are willing to buy into the song and dance of whoever emerges convincing them that they are going to change things. And damage has been done by Trump. If they really hate us enough, oh yes they will get someone in here, they will go though Canada, or Denmark, or Fiji, or wherever. All those statements did was make them hate us more, and serve as recruiting bulletin board material for the "bad guys".


I don't believe poverty itself gives birth to the kind of bestiality we are seeing. I believe dictatorship, war, murder, rape etc is the underlying problem. Basically what the 'bloodthirsty' Muslims (and Christians) are fleeing from.


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Spock
post Jun 14 2016, 11:26 PM
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Personally no I have not been all over the world. But the facts are there, I am glad you had a good experience in Jerusalem. My wife was Baptized in Jordan.

Although I did have a friend that got fed up with what he considered the same sort of "rhetoric" that you presume I am using and he left the states and converted to Islam. He lived in Syria and Turkey. At first he was a sympathizer but then saw the true colors and is now very vocal against Islam.

I grew up on Military bases mixed with all kinds of people - there were no colors or ideologies, your color was camouflage green and your ideology was to uphold the constitution.

My immediate family is a mix of white, black, hispanic, mixed, gay, atheist, liberal, conservative, Christian, Mormon and Jehovah's Witness (and that is just my immediate family that gather together and enjoy meals, holidays, etc. - we all get along. I feel I have had a very diversified life among different groups of people.

And if you did not know those things presented above, it is not at all hard to learn. The material is readily available if you are willing to put any effort into learning about it.

Just because one does not wish to believe a root canal doesn't hurt, does not make the root canal will not hurt.

Would you care to see videos of the numerous accounts of violence perpetrated by Islamic mobs in Europe against innocent citizens? How about the intimidation in the U.S. given to Trump supporters?

I'll be glad to post them. The MSM may try to cover these instances up - but the internet won't. It's all there - like an open book and I have been looking into this subject for at least 8 years now.
















This is simply a quick example. Hundreds more are available.

This post has been edited by Spock: Jun 14 2016, 11:15 PM
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 15 2016, 08:10 AM
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Well said smile.gif I hope that we can learn, as a people, to start better understanding each other and ourselves. The rise of apparent tribalism and wrong doing on every side of every issue is certainly real. We could go on forever posting things done/said from folks on every side of every issue that represent an extreme/violent view. I do think that it must start at home, and early, at the primary learning stage. Once views become ingrained. They are very hard to change. Whether those views are for or against.

QUOTE
I really wish your analysis were true! It would be so much easier if we could dismiss the problem as a bunch of lunatics who hate us.

However I am afraid the terrorists you describe started out as kids just like you and me, but then something went horribly wrong.

If we are looking for a long term solution - not just one that brings us 10 years of relative tranquility until 'the next' thing comes - then we must start understing who these people are and why they became what they are today. Know your enemies for real!

Therein lies the long term solution. And I am primarily interested in the long term solution, because I have two small kids and I want them to grow up in a better world.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 15 2016, 08:19 AM


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Spock
post Jun 15 2016, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 15 2016, 03:10 AM) *
Well said smile.gif I hope that we can learn, as a people, to start better understanding each other and ourselves. The rise of apparent tribalism and wrong doing on every side of every issue is certainly real. We could go on forever posting things done/said from folks on every side of every issue that represent an extreme/violent view. I do think that it must start at home, and early, at the primary learning stage. Once views become ingrained. They are very hard to change. Whether those views are for or against.



Well I agree. We must learn how to live together and accept each other. By and large I think we do this very well as a nation although I have been appalled at the aggressive rudeness towards people simply trying to attend a Trump rally. Yes, we have a small minority of fringe groups but nothing near what is pouring out of the middle east.

My point is a simple one. We protect each other, we protect our culture and values, that's it. Legal Immigration is fine, Illegal immigration en masse is not fine.

To deny there are is a culture bent on destroying ours and using the current trend in Europe and the U.S. to infiltrate our countries is careless. Add to that the liberals would use this in order to strip us of our right to protect ourselves.

Now the radical islamists are not only cheering the Orlando killer as a "hero of the caliphate" but are calling on others to attack schools, restaurants, malls and hospitals. These is not a people we can live with and understand.

We are a "tribe". Western culture is our tribe. We are diverse, we are made of many races and ideologies. That is what makes our culture so diverse and valuable. Simply because we have a clash of ideas in this thread does not mean I don't respect you or anyone that disagrees with me. I feel we could easily have this same discussion across the dinner table from each other and nobody be in fear of assault or even the loss of friendship. We are different. We are civil and by and large empathetic.

However, there are some that would kill you for your beliefs, and it's a culture built around a barbaric religious judicial system and I just fail to see how that ideology can mix with ours when it's main tenant is abolish it.

I wish the world was how you see it. I wish that people that were vocal about the way it is would not be pointed out as the "haters" or "bigots" when all we are trying to do is protect not just us, but you as well. And it's extremely disheartening when the same people that call for tolerance and understanding would rather apply that to radical Islam over the people that would sound the alarm against it.

This post has been edited by Spock: Jun 15 2016, 10:07 AM
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fzalfa
post Jun 15 2016, 10:42 AM
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irrational or not, terrorist have killed a couple of cops in france in the name of daesh......

i wash in jail for 3 years and was released recently......

we (gov and cops) know about his mind and plans, but they keept him free.

sorry for this familly, and theire 3yo son, they have been savagely killed with a knife in from of him !

hopefully this guy was killed by cops, but he have time to send a 10minutes video message on facebook, he xplain how and why he done that.

daesh lover are cowards and they are the results of century of non blood mixing !!

THEY SUCKX !!!

Laurent

ps: a schoolgirl was also attacked by knife elsewhere, while she was waiting her bus, sad, only injuried


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Spock
post Jun 15 2016, 11:27 AM
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It's terrible - I'm so sorry to hear that. Nobody is safe from this mindset, even little children and women.


I thought this may be of interest to this forum...


Iranian Musicians Jailed, Facing Possible Execution For Playing Metal


Also this...

Kirkuk’s only metal band are defying ISIS in Iraq
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 15 2016, 03:22 PM
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If it weren't for the fact that our bill of rights, the very foundations of our country, are tied to religious freedom, then I"d sure, let's just ban any religion that contains violent nut jobs smile.gif Sadly, there are some violent Christian nut jobs too, so we would have to ban christians as well. Most of the Christian folks don't want to this part. Just ban the muslims smile.gif

Worse yet, the past several mass killings were done by NATIVE BORN AMERICANS, not by immigrants. So there is that smile.gif


QUOTE (fkalich @ Jun 13 2016, 09:54 PM) *
I understand that in the wide scheme of things, there are other dangers a thousand times more likely.

However when you have the simple solution to protect us from deranged American born-citizens, of banning all foreign Muslims from entering the country, well problem solved! Makes sense to his herd.


Just to make note, I DO NOT support radicalism in any religion. I DO NOT support violence, especially in religion. The folks shooting things up in the states, have not been immigrants in the last several mass shootings. They have been Americans. American born citizens who are just nut jobs. Don't know how else to describe them. The bulk of followers of Islam are peace loving, hard working people. They don't want any association with the nut jobs any more than Christians want to be associated with Christians who bomb abortion clinics.

So it seems that immigration issue is a bit of a red herring here. The real problem seems to be domestic in nature. It seems that dealing with that should be our top issue here, but somehow it's not. sad.gif

Illegal immigration can certainly have negative impacts. It can also have positive ones as has been discussed. Also, like we talked about earlier, you can no more stop illegal immigration than you can stop illegal drugs. So it's important to take a very measured look at it and take a measured response. We can "ban" anyone from anything. We "banned" pot/heroin/coke, etc. and yet we are flooded with it. So banning something doesn't remove it. It just makes some folks feel better sad.gif So I gotta say, it's just not a solution.

As Kris said, what we really need to do is come to an understanding of what is motivating people so that we can start to make changes and address it. That is the only thing, imho that has a hope of stopping all this.

One last thing. Lettting folks who are on a "NO FLY LIST" buy weapons is a bad idea. Once a person can't even fly, legally, it's a bad idea to let them buy guns IMHO. That is what is being proposed by the "left" as well as closing the loophole on guns shows where anyone, even terrorists, can buy guns without registering them. Also a bad idea. So law abiding folks have nothing to worry about here. But closing the door on folks under terrorist suspicion (no fly list) and making folks register their guns (gun show loophole) seem to be pragmatic, and good ideas. I don't see how folks could be against, but some are smile.gif
QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 15 2016, 05:05 AM) *
Well I agree. We must learn how to live together and accept each other. By and large I think we do this very well as a nation although I have been appalled at the aggressive rudeness towards people simply trying to attend a Trump rally. Yes, we have a small minority of fringe groups but nothing near what is pouring out of the middle east.
. the "haters" or "bigots" when all we are trying to do is protect not just us, but you as well. And it's extremely disheartening when the same people that call for tolerance and understanding would rather apply that to radical Islam over the people that would sound the alarm against it.


Just awful. The problems in France/Europe that we see on the news here are tragic indeed. If thos esame nut jobs were here, they would be using easy to to get to assault rifles instead of knifes imho. As shown by the last several mass shootings. If we could get our nut jobs to use knives instead of guns, we could cut down on the number of dead by quite a bit. One innocent is too many, but 50 dead and 50 wounded by a guy on a terrorist no fly list is just crazy. This crazy nut was able to walk in to a gun store and by a military style assault weapon with no problem. We saw the results on the news. Folks on terror watch lists should not have it that easy. sad.gif

QUOTE (fzalfa @ Jun 15 2016, 05:42 AM) *
irrational or not, terrorist have killed a couple of cops in france in the name of daesh......

i wash in jail for 3 years and was released recently......

we (gov and cops) know about his mind and plans, but they keept him free.

sorry for this familly, and theire 3yo son, they have been savagely killed with a knife in from of him !

hopefully this guy was killed by cops, but he have time to send a 10minutes video message on facebook, he xplain how and why he done that.

daesh lover are cowards and they are the results of century of non blood mixing !!

THEY SUCKX !!!

Laurent

ps: a schoolgirl was also attacked by knife elsewhere, while she was waiting her bus, sad, only injuried


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Spock
post Jun 15 2016, 03:34 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 15 2016, 10:22 AM) *
They have been Americans. American born citizens who are just nut jobs. Don't know how else to describe them.


Radicalized Muslims.


QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 15 2016, 10:22 AM) *
One last thing. Lettting folks who are on a "NO FLY LIST" buy weapons is a bad idea. Once a person can't even fly, legally, it's a bad idea to let them buy guns IMHO.


You may want to look into this further as well. You could be on a No Fly list. My friend I work with is and before he worked here he was a missionary - one of the meekest people you could know.

No fly lists target people "of suspicion" for ridiculous reasons.

I could very well be on one.

BTW. Since you like guns - we should get together sometime - we're not too far away. I have a fully automatic AR-15 I bet you'd enjoy. Plus I just put a new scope on my 22 marksman rifle and have not fired it yet.
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Spock
post Jun 15 2016, 05:18 PM
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klasaine
post Jun 15 2016, 05:44 PM
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Seems like this last one, the Orlando attack, is turning into more of an anti-gay thing with Daesh wrapped around it for convenience, sensationalism and a bullshit sense of piece of mind for the psycho killer.

The ultimate headline 'possibly' reading ... "Closeted gay man guns down 50. Invokes allegiance to ISIS to absolve his perceived sins". I think this one is a lot more nuanced that it appears.


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AK Rich
post Jun 15 2016, 08:05 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 15 2016, 06:22 AM) *
One last thing. Lettting folks who are on a "NO FLY LIST" buy weapons is a bad idea. Once a person can't even fly, legally, it's a bad idea to let them buy guns IMHO. That is what is being proposed by the "left" as well as closing the loophole on guns shows where anyone, even terrorists, can buy guns without registering them. Also a bad idea. So law abiding folks have nothing to worry about here. But closing the door on folks under terrorist suspicion (no fly list) and making folks register their guns (gun show loophole) seem to be pragmatic, and good ideas. I don't see how folks could be against, but some are smile.gif


Just awful. The problems in France/Europe that we see on the news here are tragic indeed. If thos esame nut jobs were here, they would be using easy to to get to assault rifles instead of knifes imho. As shown by the last several mass shootings. If we could get our nut jobs to use knives instead of guns, we could cut down on the number of dead by quite a bit. One innocent is too many, but 50 dead and 50 wounded by a guy on a terrorist no fly list is just crazy. This crazy nut was able to walk in to a gun store and by a military style assault weapon with no problem. We saw the results on the news. Folks on terror watch lists should not have it that easy. sad.gif


1: There is no gun show loophole. This actually refers to private transactions such as if I was to buy a firearm from you or if one was given by or inherited from a family member.

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentar...about-gun-shows

http://www.nssf.org/factsheets/PDF/MythofGunShowLoophole.pdf

2:There is no National Gun Registry with the exception of automatic weapons and certain short barreled rifles and shotguns and it is actually against federal law to have one, and states that have a registry run afoul to The Firearm Owners’ Protection Act of 1986.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-congress/senate-bill/49

http://www.usafirearmtraining.com/law/are-guns-registered/

Gun registries tend to lead to confiscation.

3:The AR-15 (ArmaLite rifle) is NOT an assault rifle and is SEMI- AUTOMATIC. It only looks like an assault rifle and my .300 Win Mag hunting rifle is more powerful than most of variants of the AR-15.
In contrast, the M4A1 carbine is a fully automatic assault weapon.

http://www.nssf.org/msr/facts.cfm

http://assaultweapontruth.com/

http://www.assaultweapon.info/

In other news concerning terrorists from abroad infiltrating the US:

“Islamic Refugee” With Gas Pipeline Plans Arrested in New Mexico Border County
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2016/06/...-border-county/

Middle Eastern Men Arrested Near Mexican Border with Steel Cylinders
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2015/12/...teel-cylinders/

ISIS Camp a Few Miles from Texas, Mexican Authorities Confirm
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2015/04/...rities-confirm/

Cartels Help Terrorists in Mexico Get to U.S. to Explore Targets; ISIS Militant Shaykh Mahmood Omar Khabir Among Them
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2016/04/...bir-among-them/

Judicial Watch Uncovers New State Department Records Confirming Arab Smuggling “Cells,” Al Qaeda Leader in Mexico.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2016/01/...ader-in-mexico/

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Spock
post Jun 15 2016, 08:24 PM
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I purchased an M4A1 about 10 years ago that was semi-automatic but I just recently put a bump stock on it which is completely legal (right now) and it can fire single shot, 3 round burst or fully automatic.

Pretty cool device...



I like this video better...


rolleyes.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 15 2016, 09:22 PM
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I have looked in to it. And I still assert that nobody on a no fly list should have access to buy guns. Sure, there will be exceptions where your buddy is on one for whatever reason or what not. But these exceptions don't outweigh the benefits of making it just a bit harder for terrorists to by assuault weapons. Folks can appeal to get off the list. But most folks on the list are there because they are under investigation. Just seems pragmatic. Of course, it will make those folks by guns illegally or at a gunshow, or from a friend, but at least they can't walk in to a gunstore and "gun up".

Anyone could be on the list in theory, but yeah, if you are on a no fly list, you should either appeal to get off of it, or find out why you are on it. But again, just one pragmatic step to slow down nut jobs when they go to snag up assault weapons. Let's make it just a bit harder on them. Seems pragmatic and would serve the greater good imho. Nothing is ever perfect. But letting folks on watch lists buy guns is just a bad idea IMHO, since the primary way on the no fly list is to be flagged by the FBI. They could flag me and I"d deal with it, just to make it harder for nuts to get assault weapons.

I bought my first gun in an effort to bond with a Mormon friend of mine who was a gun fan. Mormons take a LOT of crap from wads of people, evangelicals, etc. just because they are Mormon. I wanted to find out more about him and his faith and thought we could bond over guns. Most folks seemed to want to condemn him for his faith straight away and hint he was a polygamist cult member. Reminds me a lot of what he happening now. sad.gif

On a happier note, we have some great gun ranges around here smile.gif Last time I was at one was with Gitarrero which was a fun night smile.gif They will rent you full auto weapons at the ranges which is handy smile.gif



QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 15 2016, 10:34 AM) *
Radicalized Muslims.

You may want to look into this further as well. You could be on a No Fly list. My friend I work with is and before he worked here he was a missionary - one of the meekest people you could know.

No fly lists target people "of suspicion" for ridiculous reasons.

I could very well be on one.

BTW. Since you like guns - we should get together sometime - we're not too far away. I have a fully automatic AR-15 I bet you'd enjoy. Plus I just put a new scope on my 22 marksman rifle and have not fired it yet.


BINGO yet again smile.gif It's coming to light now that he had Gay hookup aps on his phone, often went to Gay night clubs and drank/danced all night, despite this being a very big no no in Islam, and he said he was involved with two islamic groups that are blood enemies. The ISIS bit seems to be just icing on his "crazy cake". Not buying it. Seems he hated himself for being Gay and took it out on the place where he associated this hatred of himself. After buying assault weapons legally, despite being on a Terrorist no fly list. sad.gif

QUOTE (klasaine @ Jun 15 2016, 12:44 PM) *
Seems like this last one, the Orlando attack, is turning into more of an anti-gay thing with Daesh wrapped around it for convenience, sensationalism and a bullshit sense of piece of mind for the psycho killer.

The ultimate headline 'possibly' reading ... "Closeted gay man guns down 50. Invokes allegiance to ISIS to absolve his perceived sins". I think this one is a lot more nuanced that it appears.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 15 2016, 10:12 PM


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post Jun 15 2016, 09:33 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 15 2016, 04:22 PM) *
I bought my first gun in an effort to bond with a Mormon friend of mine who was a gun fan. Mormons take a LOT of crap from wads of people, evangelicals, etc. just because they are Mormon. I wanted to find out more about him and his faith and thought we could bond over guns. Most folks seemed to want to condemn him for his faith straight away and hint he was a polygamist cult member. Reminds me a lot of what he happening now. sad.gif

On a happier note, we have some great gun ranges around here smile.gif Last time I was at one was with Gitarrero which was a fun night smile.gif However, if you bring that full auto to the range, you'd better have the proper documentation for or the cops will be there before you get through the first magazine. They will rent you full auto weapons at the ranges which is handy smile.gif



I understand about the Mormon issue. My wife was raised Mormon and even though she isn't involved with them anymore her entire side of the family are - and they are great people. My wife hides that from her coworkers and especially her boss because they are fundamentalists. She should not be ashamed, and to be honest it makes me ashamed that Christians would act that way. Anyone on a spiritual path is okay in my book, just as long as that path doesn't include the blood of innocents. I admit, I'm not perfect - that's not what being a Christian is, being a Christian one should realize how far from perfect they are - unfortunately that is not the case in many, many instances.

On the guns - no doubt, and I can agree with you concerning the No-Fly list. I'm just a bit concerned over the list myself.

And yes, always keep receipts wherever I'm taking that rifle. You shouldn't have to - but I wouldn't want to put up with the headache - just be like - "Thank you officer, have a good day now - ya hear!". There are no gun ranges except for outdoor around her where it can be fired. My friend has a large pasture where I've shot it as I don't shoot enough to become a member of a gun club - but I just don't have the time. I purchased guns for safety, then just had to have that AR. Now I'm sort of concerned about the possibility of civil unrest via something, whether an EMP from a bomb, sun flare, terrorist hit to the electric grid or the dollar collapsing. Name your crisis du jour. I've turned into a prepper - faraday cage, food rations for a year - all that stuff.

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me. wink.gif

This post has been edited by Spock: Jun 15 2016, 09:34 PM
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post Jun 15 2016, 09:57 PM
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I have to agree to disagree about the "loophole" smile.gif The loophole is that you can, as a Terrorist, go to a gun show and buy any weapon you like without having to have a BACKGROUND CHECK. That's a loophole if there ever was a loophole. But terrorists/nuts don't have to do that, as they can just go buy guns at the local gun store. How easy smile.gif Let's make it as easy as we can for them right? I had a full background check when I bought my weapon and I"m registered as a gun owner in Ga. I"m a "law abiding" gun owner. Thus, I went through the legal hoops of buying a gun. Background checks should be mandatory IMHO or we are just begging terrorists to buy all the guns they want.

Skipping those hoops is an easy way for folks that should not have guns to get guns.

By saying that registration leads to confiscation, you are making a huge leap. I"m registered and have never been confiscated? I don't know anyone who has and I know a LOT of gun owners. That seems more like the fear of Big Govt than anything else to be honest sad.gif

I looked up the web site you pasted several links from and sadly it was started by a debunked, far right wing conspiracy theorist Larry Clayman. More on him here.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/03/25/di...layman-i/203042
We have to stop using these types of blogs as source material guys. Unless we can agree on some sort of reference ground, it's going to be hard to move forward. sad.gif I"d say anything by the PEW research center will work, or anything by the census, etc. Not stuff by highly partisan, suspect, conspiracy blogger types. sad.gif



QUOTE (AK Rich @ Jun 15 2016, 03:05 PM) *
1: There is no gun show loophole. This actually refers to private transactions such as if I was to buy a firearm from you or if one was given by or inherited from a family member.

Judicial Watch Uncovers New State Department Records Confirming Arab Smuggling “Cells,” Al Qaeda Leader in Mexico.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2016/01/...ader-in-mexico/


The Mormon issue, is really similar to the Muslim issue to be honest. There are some Mormons who support bombing abortion clinics. There are Mormons who HAVE bombed abortion clinics. This doesn't mean that we should call them RADICAL MORMONS, as it demonizes all mormons for actions of a nut job few. Same thing with Islam IMHO, the proportion of nut jobs/radicals compared to the 1plus billion peace loving muslims is quite small. It just gets hyped in the media to a HUGE degree.

Seeing Christians "act that way" to any other religion turns my stomach. I see you are offended when Christians act that way to Mormons, but not when they "act that way" to muslims. Seems a bit of a double standard yes? Are the bulk of Muslims not on a "Spiritual Path" as well? And are not the followers of Christ called upon to forgive, and love thy neighbor and "turn the other cheek, etc? Seeing Christian folks embrace animosity toward another religious path is sorta sickening and hypocritical imho. Yes, to be sure, ISIS ARE EVIL, EVIL, EVIL. But again, they represent a small fraction of Islam. out of the 1plus billion Muslims, the tiny fraction that are nut job violent, get all the press. It's become OK to think of all of them as being either complicit with ISIS or part of ISIS when in fact it's just not the case.

The sicko nut jobs who engage in mass murder often use religion as an excuse just like the guy in Orlando did. First he said it was for Hezbolah, then Isis, (both groups are blood enemies), then we find out he might be Gay himself. This guy was just a NUT. Mentally ill people should not be allowed access to firearms IMHO. We have to take a test to drive a car and get a license for it. Yet, we let any nut job terrorist walk in and buy a semi automatic rifle? That's just plain stupid and begging for trouble. Owning a gun is a great responsibility. It should come with great personal effort and willingness to prove one is not crazy, not prone to violence, and not being investigated by the FBI for terrorist connections IMHO. Most gun deaths in this country are between people who know eachother. Usually, people who know each other very well, as in husband wife/boyfriend girlfriend/etc. Your wife is more likely to shoot you than anyone else to be honest in terms of the stats. In short, if we can accept the Mormons, we can surely accept the bulk of Islam which is peace loving and also descended from Abraham, as it is one of the "Abrahamic Faiths" along with Judaism and Christianity.

So let's not condemn an entire faith system becuase of the actions of some nuts. Anymore than we would condemn Mormons because a few of them killed abortion doctors. smile.gif

I see nothing wrong with "prepping" as everyone needs a hobby and being prepared is a good hobby to have smile.gif One never knows after all. However, it's easy to become a bit too wrapped up in end time prophecy (had that happen to myself at one point) and the belief that it's all going to collapse. After all, "we are not promised tomorrow". Making peace with that has helped me make peace with just about everything else smile.gif

QUOTE (Spock @ Jun 15 2016, 04:33 PM) *
I understand about the Mormon issue. My wife was raised Mormon and even though she isn't involved with them anymore her entire side of the family are - and they are great people. My wife hides that from her coworkers and especially her boss because they are fundamentalists. She should not be ashamed, and to be honest it makes me ashamed that Christians would act that way. Anyone on a spiritual path is okay in my book, just as long as that path doesn't include the blood of innocents. I admit, I'm not perfect - that's not what being a Christian is, being a Christian one should realize how far from perfect they are - unfortunately that is not the case in many, many instances.

On the guns - no doubt, and I can agree with you concerning the No-Fly list. I'm just a bit concerned over the list myself.

And yes, always keep receipts wherever I'm taking that rifle. You shouldn't have to - but I wouldn't want to put up with the headache - just be like - "Thank you officer, have a good day now - ya hear!". There are no gun ranges except for outdoor around her where it can be fired. My friend has a large pasture where I've shot it as I don't shoot enough to become a member of a gun club - but I just don't have the time. I purchased guns for safety, then just had to have that AR. Now I'm sort of concerned about the possibility of civil unrest via something, whether an EMP from a bomb, sun flare, terrorist hit to the electric grid or the dollar collapsing. Name your crisis du jour. I've turned into a prepper - faraday cage, food rations for a year - all that stuff.

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me. wink.gif


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 15 2016, 09:59 PM


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